Rear derailleur upgrade or new bike?

koreanbaz
koreanbaz Posts: 43
edited July 2016 in Road general
Hello folks
My personal bike is a CUBE Agree GTC from 2011. With 105 10 speed. My dilemma is that I need a higher rear gear due to being a fat old man. It's 11-28 I do believe.
Having just returned from climbing MV on a Cannondale hire bike with Tiagra gearing. If it wasn't for the 3 up front I wouldn't have made it to the top.
So do I spend the £100 to change mr rear derailleur cassette and chain? Or leave as is and buy another bike as well.
I await the forum knowledge.

Posted in the wrong section :oops:

Comments

  • ForumNewbie
    ForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    I also have a Cube GTC Agree 2011 and it had a 11-28 10 speed Ultegra cassette. I upgraded to a 12-30 Ultegra and also had to get a new medium cage rear derailleur to replace my small cage derailleur. That with a new chain all for under £100, so why buy a new bike?
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Very worthwhile upgrade
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    I think a little more info would help. To start with, the OP needs to be honest and advise whether he really needed the smallest gear on the triple or just used it on a big mountain? Most people will use the lowest gear whatever it is.

    Then I would ask what gear it was since it is the ratio that counts, and a 34/30 might not be the same.

    Finally, how often does the OP tackle big moutains? No point gearing up for regular jaunts up Ventoux if the regular climb is Ditchling Beacon.
  • ForumNewbie
    ForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    I think a little more info would help. To start with, the OP needs to be honest and advise whether he really needed the smallest gear on the triple or just used it on a big mountain? Most people will use the lowest gear whatever it is.

    Then I would ask what gear it was since it is the ratio that counts, and a 34/30 might not be the same.

    Finally, how often does the OP tackle big moutains? No point gearing up for regular jaunts up Ventoux if the regular climb is Ditchling Beacon.
    The OP has said he wants lower gears - nothing wrong with that. I can understand him wanting a lower gear than a 28 at the back for some steep short climbs here in the UK. I know that is low enough for some, but for us that are a bit older and less fit, having lower gears is welcome, as better to spin up in a lower gear than grind up in a bigger gear.

    The OP wanted to know whether to upgrade his existing bike with lower gears or buy a new bike, so it seems an obvious answer that it makes more sense to upgrade his existing bike.
  • koreanbaz
    koreanbaz Posts: 43
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    I think a little more info would help. To start with, the OP needs to be honest and advise whether he really needed the smallest gear on the triple or just used it on a big mountain? Most people will use the lowest gear whatever it is.

    Then I would ask what gear it was since it is the ratio that counts, and a 34/30 might not be the same.

    Finally, how often does the OP tackle big moutains? No point gearing up for regular jaunts up Ventoux if the regular climb is Ditchling Beacon.

    The week before as a last ride out I tried to ride up the A635 from Greenfield to Holmsfirth. I coughed several lungs out and failed in my quest.
    Then when I rode up MV I was in Granny from the start of the forest all the way to the top. For this I have no shame.
    Doing the Etape Calidonia I find that I need to stand up to get up the first stage of Mount Shilalion.
    The Cube Attire and the likes now all come with 11-32 which I only found out at the weekend.
  • koreanbaz
    koreanbaz Posts: 43
    oxoman wrote:
    Koreanbaz, as mentioned before when you posted in the wrong section you would be ok upgrading with new cassette,chain and rear Mech assuming that the front chainset is not worn out. I'm assuming the Cube is a double chainset rather than the triple you used when going MV. It would be worthwhile letting us know what the front chainset is as well. A 32 is the biggest rear ring i think you can have. I don't think you will end up with as easy a gear as on the triple chainset hire bike, but without spending more money replacing the bike or front chainset and left hand shifters it's as good as you will get. I currently run a triple on my Moda but this doubles up for lightweight touring occasionally. The thing that will make the biggest difference is your own fitness and weight. Weight is not the be all and end all though as certain pro's in the TDF are 90kg, as to age that's just a number. I ride occasionally with some 70 ish guys who put me to shame by riding single speeds when I'm on my triple.

    I am far to fat to be sprinting up any hill like the young guys or even fit veterans. My current set up is 2 at the front 50/34
  • reformedfatty
    reformedfatty Posts: 543
    You don't need to spend £100. Google says the 105 rear mech can go up to 33t, so a tiagra 11-32 cassette http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra- ... 1-3211-34/ is only £18
  • ForumNewbie
    ForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    reformedfatty wrote:
    You don't need to spend £100. Google says the 105 rear mech can go up to 33t, so a tiagra 11-32 cassette http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra- ... 1-3211-34/ is only £18
    I think with an 11-32 cassette the OP would need a medium cage rear derailleur.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ForumNewbie wrote:
    reformedfatty wrote:
    You don't need to spend £100. Google says the 105 rear mech can go up to 33t, so a tiagra 11-32 cassette http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra- ... 1-3211-34/ is only £18
    I think with an 11-32 cassette the OP would need a medium cage rear derailleur.

    Probably - but it depends on the frame as well - my wife has a 30-?? cassette with a short cage 5700 105 rear mech - it works, just ...

    It does sound like the OP could do with a triple - then have a 28tooth on the front - replacing the chainset and front shifter is more expensive than just replacing the cassette - but it does just lower the gearing on the whole cassette.

    Replace the bike? If you're not happy with it then why not. If you're generally happy and comfortable on the bike then I'd look to replace the required components.
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    What's this "or" in the original post... surely the correct answer is buy a new bike and get a new rear derailleur to fix the old one? :)
  • arthur_scrimshaw
    arthur_scrimshaw Posts: 2,596
    Cage length doesn't affect cassette capacity, longer cages are needed for a triple chainset.
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:
    Cage length doesn't affect cassette capacity, longer cages are needed for a triple chainset.

    Is that not because there's a larger front chainring range - which you need to add to the cassette range... to get the rear mech capacity required.

    So if the front chainrings are "fixed" at their current value putting in a longer caged rear mech is going to allow for a larger cassette.

    Or did I miss something?
  • ForumNewbie
    ForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    Man Of Lard wrote:
    Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:
    Cage length doesn't affect cassette capacity, longer cages are needed for a triple chainset.

    Is that not because there's a larger front chainring range - which you need to add to the cassette range... to get the rear mech capacity required.

    So if the front chainrings are "fixed" at their current value putting in a longer caged rear mech is going to allow for a larger cassette.

    Or did I miss something?
    I agree. He has 50-34 on the front and 11-28 on the back. That was the same as I had, but I changed it to a 12-28 on the back. I then also needed to change from a small cage RD to a medium cage RD, so with a 32 on the back I think the OP would definitely need a medium cage RD.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    ForumNewbie wrote:
    I agree. He has 50-34 on the front and 11-28 on the back. That was the same as I had, but I changed it to a 12-28 on the back. I then also needed to change from a small cage RD to a medium cage RD, so with a 32 on the back I think the OP would definitely need a medium cage RD.

    This makes no sense at all

    You went from an 11-28 cassette to a 12-28 cassette and had to change from a short to a med cage derailleur??
  • arthur_scrimshaw
    arthur_scrimshaw Posts: 2,596
    Edit - in response to MOL's post

    Nearly, the long cage is used to accommodate the difference between the biggest and smallest chainrings, this is much greater on a triple than a double or compact chainset.
    The factor which dictates how big a cassette you can fit is the clearance between the top jockey wheel on the RD and the cassette. This is a factor of the mechanism length (the distance between the two main pivots) and distance between the mounting bolt (which screws into the hanger) and the top pivot of the mech rather than the cage length.
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    You live and learn - although I'd have thought both the clearance to the upper jockey *and* the cage length play a part?
  • arthur_scrimshaw
    arthur_scrimshaw Posts: 2,596
    Man Of Lard wrote:
    You live and learn - although I'd have thought both the clearance to the upper jockey *and* the cage length play a part?

    You can now buy hanger extenders like http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink to make any RD cope with any cassettes including the range expanders up to 40t!

    The cage length is purely there to take up chain slack, the longer the cage the more slack it can take up!
  • ForumNewbie
    ForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    keef66 wrote:
    ForumNewbie wrote:
    I agree. He has 50-34 on the front and 11-28 on the back. That was the same as I had, but I changed it to a 12-28 on the back. I then also needed to change from a small cage RD to a medium cage RD, so with a 32 on the back I think the OP would definitely need a medium cage RD.

    This makes no sense at all

    You went from an 11-28 cassette to a 12-28 cassette and had to change from a short to a med cage derailleur??
    Calm down keef66- it was just a typo. I meant to say I changed it to a 12-30, which I did say correctly in my earlier post in this thread.
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Check shimano's web site but the mech length is to do with the difference in teeth between your smallest and largest gear combinations.
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    SPA Cycles sell triple chainsets (where you can specify the rings you want) for about £60.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    It sounds like the OP needs a triple.
    The Thread title question makes no sense if the new bike is going to be another compact double. You can do either to get a slightly lower gear. Depends if you want a new bike or not as to which way you go (unless the new bike is potentially a triple).

    There are not many triple chainring road bikes around anymore.
    They seem to have been replaced by ebikes!
  • ForumNewbie
    ForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    Carbonator wrote:
    There are not many triple chainring road bikes around anymore.
    They seem to have been replaced by ebikes!
    Riding a bike with a triple is no way equivalent to riding an ebike if that is what you are implying. Nothing wrong with triples, but here in the UK a lot cyclists seem to look down on them. Many new bikes now have compact 50/34 chainsets with 11-32 cassettes - the smallest gear on them is no smaller than a lot of bikes with triples.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    My best bike has a 105 triple. Lowest gear is 30 x 27, which at my ripe old age I'm occasionally grateful for. You could get virtually the same bottom gear with a compact 34t chainring and a 30t sprocket.

    But for me the main benefit of a triple is less front changing and slightly fewer gaps in the cassette. Round here I spend 95% of my time in the middle 39t chainring and zipping up and down the cassette. I haven't ever ridden one, but think with a 50/34 I'd be doing more cross-chaining and/ or front shifting. And 50 to 34 is a big jump!
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    short cage RD5701 will take a 12-30 with 50-34 no problem.
    Just get another bike if its too complicated.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    @ OP: Get a shimano 9 speed mountain bike rear mech - I use the XT M771 - and you can run up to a 36 rear sprocket with your 50/24 chainset and 10 speed road set-up. Just need to lengthen the chain a few links....
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    put an 11-23 on and you won't be fat for long.
  • Jerry185
    Jerry185 Posts: 143
    Guys,

    I have exactly this query in the beginners forum and, I have to say, the answers here are a lot more helpful than the 'pedal harder' responses I've had so far.
    I have the compact front with 11-28 but am always looking for big hills - Mallorca and Dragon Ride done this year - but some hills, to this beginner, are just a grind, when I'm sure a 32 on the back would be easier and faster - that's what gears are for, right?

    Looking at a Ribble and they say (bike builder) that a 32 requires a new cage on the back, so I either need to new cassette, chain, cage set up on my Triban 540, or a carbon
    Did someone say 'or?'

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