Wheels - Can't see the wood for the trees. help!

salsamuffin204

I'm riding a Giant TCR advanced 2. I'm really happy with it except for the wheels. They weigh in at 1890g and are flexing on climbs. I have to open my brake quick release at the beginning of climbs.

I can't afford or even justify to myself (let alone the wife!) carbon wheel prices. So I'm after new alloy wheels. From my research I understand that the performance benefits of new wheels will not be massive but the bike will feel better. IMO thats worth having and worth $500 or so to me.

I weigh 70-75kg and my goal is to weigh 65kg by October for a Gran Fondo.

My riding is split evenly between riding on the flats around 35-40km/h and in the mountains under 20 km/h. I regularly do 40-50km loops of total flat but I also live in a moubtainous area and enjoy climbing. I'm often up and down 5km climbs at 5-12% - longer rides often have 3 or more of these kind of climbs. I quite often do this as part of a group with accelerations and 'friendly' sprints etc.

I'm having trouble distilling it down to what really matters... weight, aero, stiffness, rim width.

I *think* I've narrowed it down to a choice of 2....

Campag Zonda around 1,600g but with 16 spokes in the front wheel quite aero. But if a spoke goes the wheel won't function and repair could be a PITA. How likely is this? They are very well reviewed by users on wiggle etc.

Rol D'huez at 1,430g, less aero with 20 spokes but has the modern wide rim. Can function with a broken spoke and is easy to fix. Also well reviewed on roadbikereview.

With a club discount on the ROLs the price is basically the same. Can anyone shed any light on the subject. What REALLY matters with alloy wheels?

singleton

Zondas always get good comments and reviews on here - along with the Fulcrum equivalents (they're both the same company).

Not sure about the Rol's so can't comment.

Alex99

Salsamuffin204 wrote:

I'm riding a Giant TCR advanced 2. I'm really happy with it except for the wheels. They weigh in at 1890g and are flexing on climbs. I have to open my brake quick release at the beginning of climbs.

I can't afford or even justify to myself (let alone the wife!) carbon wheel prices. So I'm after new alloy wheels. From my research I understand that the performance benefits of new wheels will not be massive but the bike will feel better. IMO thats worth having and worth $500 or so to me.

I weigh 70-75kg and my goal is to weigh 65kg by October for a Gran Fondo.

My riding is split evenly between riding on the flats around 35-40km/h and in the mountains under 20 km/h. I regularly do 40-50km loops of total flat but I also live in a moubtainous area and enjoy climbing. I'm often up and down 5km climbs at 5-12% - longer rides often have 3 or more of these kind of climbs. I quite often do this as part of a group with accelerations and 'friendly' sprints etc.

I'm having trouble distilling it down to what really matters... weight, aero, stiffness, rim width.

I *think* I've narrowed it down to a choice of 2....

Campag Zonda around 1,600g but with 16 spokes in the front wheel quite aero. But if a spoke goes the wheel won't function and repair could be a PITA. How likely is this? They are very well reviewed by users on wiggle etc.

Rol D'huez at 1,430g, less aero with 20 spokes but has the modern wide rim. Can function with a broken spoke and is easy to fix. Also well reviewed on roadbikereview.

With a club discount on the ROLs the price is basically the same. Can anyone shed any light on the subject. What REALLY matters with alloy wheels?

I got Zonda's and they're fine. Light-ish good value etc...

Guess if you're after fast-ish wheels, you've got to accept that insurance against spoke breakage is down on your list of requirements. That said, I don't see many people complaining about spoke failure in factory 16 spoke wheels.

ianSWBB

Salsamuffin204

botht the zondas and the ROL wheels will be suitable - are you stateside? if yes, would probably go with the ROL wheels - easier to service if there is a warranty/maintenance issue at a later date

the next level of wheels up would be e.g. Fast Forward F2A wheels (more or less the same rim as the zondas and the ROL, but have the ultra reliable/lightweight DT Swiss 240s hubs!) - currently on offer in the UK

regards
ianSWBB

Anonymous

I have zondas and unfortunately broken some spokes.

Sadly it does make the wheels unrideable as they bend too far out of true but my LBS can get them in quite easily and they are pretty simple to replace if you have the right parts.

Alex99

coriordan wrote:

I have zondas and unfortunately broken some spokes.

Sadly it does make the wheels unrideable as they bend too far out of true but my LBS can get them in quite easily and they are pretty simple to replace if you have the right parts.

I spoke too soon. Were they 'random' breakages out on the road, or from impacts? Roughly how many miles have you got on them?

Cheers

Bobbinogs

Alex99 wrote:

...

Guess if you're after fast-ish wheels, you've got to accept that insurance against spoke breakage is down on your list of requirements. That said, I don't see many people complaining about spoke failure in factory 16 spoke wheels.

Not sure I agree with this. Wheels can be 'fast' based on a number of aspects, but spokes and the number of them don't seem to play too much part in it. I would say that handling is a big factor in speed and that often comes down to the overall package and the rim width/shape, with tyres having a massive part to play. An overrated but unimportant factor is the hubs since most work well enough. Things like aero performance can make a big difference (above a certain speed) and weight (albeit to a lesser degree once down below a certain weight).

Personally, I wouldn't obsess about weight too much. Anything less than ~1750g is fine for most of us. Yeah, the Zondas are OK but there are other decent and cheapish options around like Fulcrum 5LG or Quattro. The number of spokes is an issue if you really stress about it but spoke failure is generally rare. I have had quite a few factory wheels and ride about 7-8,000 miles a year and have yet to break a spoke on them (most spoke breakages are due to something , like a 90kg chap riding through a deep pothole).

FWIW, on my longer rides (which are usually 200+km solo efforts and in the middle of nowhere) I will ride my handbuilts (typically 24/28 or 28/32 with standard spokes which can be sourced in any decent bike shop) but I have no qualms about zipping around my locale on wheels like Zondas or RS81s, etc.

bendertherobot

Something to bear in mind, the Zonda are about to be relaunched in a wider edition (I'd imagine the Racing 3 will follow suit). Worth waiting for IMO.

keef66

"(most spoke breakages are due to something , like a 90kg chap riding through a deep pothole)"

My only ever broken spoke was almost certainly as a result of an earlier spill, bending the mech hanger, and then trying to select my lowest gear which chucked the chain off the back of the cassette and into the spokes. A couple of other D/S spokes also have teeth marks, so they may also fail at some point in the future. Maybe in this instance a dork disc wouldn't have been so dorky after all...

andi1363

How about Giants own climbing wheels? 1585gms and £250.

http://www.breezebikes.co.uk/p/6701/SL1 ... g-Wheelset

I use Fulcrum Racing 3's and can't fault them. 1550gms and £300.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-racing- ... -wheelset/

sloppyschleckonds

Salsamuffin204 wrote:

I weigh 70-75kg

Buy some more accurate scales?

rolf_f

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Salsamuffin204 wrote:

I weigh 70-75kg

Buy some more accurate scales?

Lol! I daresay if you aren't too fussed about the odd 5kg of your own weight then fretting over a couple of hundred grams of wheel weight shouldn't be a priority!

salsamuffin204

Rolf F wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Salsamuffin204 wrote:

I weigh 70-75kg

Buy some more accurate scales?

Lol! I daresay if you aren't too fussed about the odd 5kg of your own weight then fretting over a couple of hundred grams of wheel weight shouldn't be a priority!

Hilarious. Have you weighed yourself daily wise guys? You'll probably find it fluctuates a fair amount even hourly.

Do you weigh the same all season? I don't. I don't know anyone who is fit who does either.

My weight moves around between 70-75kg. I gave my heaviest weight as a precaution as some wheel sets have a max rider weight.

Of course maybe you're a one off and your weight isn't affected by things like training, hydration, what you had for dinner last night etc. Then again.....

Thanks for your helpful contribution I hope you had a right good guffaw at the screen as you typed out your "words of wisdom."

svetty

If you are riding a Gran Fondo I imagine that they'll be a fair bit of climbing involved?

I know they don't have the latest trend in wheel fashion - wide rims - but I'm partial to the DA C24s.......

cycleclinic

it has been demonstrated before that aero effect work at all speed. it is just power saved number become bigger as the speed rises. For a rider producing the same power on a bike with two different wheelset the time saved is directly related to the difference in cube root of the drag coefficent of the two bike with the two different wheelsets.

The time saved therefore scales with this difference but there are other factors.
time taken to traverse a distance at a given power is = dist*(rho*CdA/2*power)^1/3)

So aero effects are real they work at all speeds. sorry for the maths but it is the only way to explain it. however that might be as clear as mud to some. In short time is directly related to CdA i.e drag but the relationship is not linear.

forget notions of climbing wheels and other circular logic. good wheels will be use a wider rim and be stiff. This either mean a deeper rim and low spoke count or a higher spoke count and shallower rim. Offset drilled rims for the rear mean longer spoke life so if you find these then good. Also big thick spokes are not very aero at all so avoid wheels with those.
the wider rim generally means a more comfortable ride and I also think improved handling well by that I mean you can push a bit harder into the bends particuarly on rougher roads.

Any wheel that is stiff will be relaible if built properly. any wheel around the 1500-1700g mark will climb as well as each other with the only differences being how aero they are. Stiffer wheels I think though feel right somehow. still trying to work out why (it is not a power transfer thing) but stiff wheels feels as "direct" as lighter ones.

You can go around in circles on this. Just look for the above in a wheelset and you will be happy.

johngti

thecycleclinic wrote:

You can go around in circles on this. Just look for the above in a wheelset and you will be happy.

Giraffoto

Superstar Pave/Icon wheelset, and enough change to spend on something else?