Light touring and cols bike/frame. No more bikepacking.
remedy_7
Posts: 179
A couple of years ago I asked this question. I am re-asking as there may be some new ideas out there.
Last time I asked, I decided to go the bikepacking route and stick with my carbon race bike. (I have a Genesis mountain bike which I use for heavy touring).
But on a race bike, this only works if you know the weather is going to be on your side. Three other issues I came up with were -
1. I am a light sleeper and I move around a lot during the night. The sound of a mossie will wake me up. So I need netting. That is either a tent or my Mountain Range gortex bag with netting (The old Cobra bag). My Siltarp on grass is a sleepless night.
2. I am very tall, size 64 frame with the saddle up to max. That means that bikepacking on the bars and behind the saddle make for a very unstable bike. I need the weight lower down.
3. Because of my size, all my stuff is xl. Sleeping bag etc. That means about 20-30% extra weight and volume compared to the average Joe.
This all means that bikepacking on my race bike is now out. I tried. (Are photos no longer allowed on here?). It was fun. But not practical. There are so many web pages and videos of people trying to make it work. But I now know that, for me, it doesn't. Unless you are the type who lies on his back, falls asleep straight away, and not wake up when a spider walks across your face. Then forget it.
So it has to be a rear rack and panniers. And please don't waffle about the extra weight. The bikepacking bags - combined - are just as heavy. Also my Apidura frame bag (waterproof zip and material) does not have tapped seams and leaks badly. What a rip-off for the price. So all my stuff goes in dry bags at extra weight.
I have an old pair of Karrimor lightweight panniers (600g?), plus I'll now get a lightweight tubus rack (Fly?). Most people quote the heavy duty Ortlieb panniers (which I also have) when boasting about bikepacking weight savings. Very misleading.
So back to the question, I'm after a bike/frame that I can strip down and ride some French cols, racing bike style. And then put a rack and mudguards on to do a light tour. Yes, I actually do both and often.
I have been looking at the Condor Fratello frame. Last time I asked they didn't make 64cm frames. Now they do. But they are expensive. And a 64cm frame with fork is close to 3kg. A beast.
In Thailand this year I saw a light touring bike which used a Ribble CR1 cyclo frame. Light. Dirt cheap.
There is also Kinesis. But I think they are a bit overpriced for what they are.
Does anyone have any other recommendations?
Last time I asked, I decided to go the bikepacking route and stick with my carbon race bike. (I have a Genesis mountain bike which I use for heavy touring).
But on a race bike, this only works if you know the weather is going to be on your side. Three other issues I came up with were -
1. I am a light sleeper and I move around a lot during the night. The sound of a mossie will wake me up. So I need netting. That is either a tent or my Mountain Range gortex bag with netting (The old Cobra bag). My Siltarp on grass is a sleepless night.
2. I am very tall, size 64 frame with the saddle up to max. That means that bikepacking on the bars and behind the saddle make for a very unstable bike. I need the weight lower down.
3. Because of my size, all my stuff is xl. Sleeping bag etc. That means about 20-30% extra weight and volume compared to the average Joe.
This all means that bikepacking on my race bike is now out. I tried. (Are photos no longer allowed on here?). It was fun. But not practical. There are so many web pages and videos of people trying to make it work. But I now know that, for me, it doesn't. Unless you are the type who lies on his back, falls asleep straight away, and not wake up when a spider walks across your face. Then forget it.
So it has to be a rear rack and panniers. And please don't waffle about the extra weight. The bikepacking bags - combined - are just as heavy. Also my Apidura frame bag (waterproof zip and material) does not have tapped seams and leaks badly. What a rip-off for the price. So all my stuff goes in dry bags at extra weight.
I have an old pair of Karrimor lightweight panniers (600g?), plus I'll now get a lightweight tubus rack (Fly?). Most people quote the heavy duty Ortlieb panniers (which I also have) when boasting about bikepacking weight savings. Very misleading.
So back to the question, I'm after a bike/frame that I can strip down and ride some French cols, racing bike style. And then put a rack and mudguards on to do a light tour. Yes, I actually do both and often.
I have been looking at the Condor Fratello frame. Last time I asked they didn't make 64cm frames. Now they do. But they are expensive. And a 64cm frame with fork is close to 3kg. A beast.
In Thailand this year I saw a light touring bike which used a Ribble CR1 cyclo frame. Light. Dirt cheap.
There is also Kinesis. But I think they are a bit overpriced for what they are.
Does anyone have any other recommendations?
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Comments
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"Unless you are the type who lies on his back, falls asleep"
A typo, I meant his/HER. I am not sexist. Please don't ban me!0 -
Kinesis. 250 for that frame doesn't seem a lot to me!0
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I was looking at the 4s. Which was pricey. The 2tv3 looks good. But +4 week waiting in my size.0
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When you are as tall as me, size availability is the problem.0
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If it helps, the Fratello dosnt ride like heavy bike. With lightish'ish non touring kit I got mine down to about 8.7-8kg for a 61cm frame. It would have no problem doing the French col bit, it's not a sluggish bike, Fratello 11,000 miles @18.4 average, Canyon Aeroad 5,000 miles @18.8 average so the difference isn't massive.
Didn't do too much touring on it but it didn't like too heavier load..0 -
Thanks Dan. The Fratello is top of the list at the moment. They have my size.
The only thing holding me back is the price.0 -
Genesis sell frames but their XL size is only a 57cm. That seems a bit small for an XL. Also most of their frames are now disc. I don't mind disc but I already have wheels which aren't.
Same for Van Nic. Their frames aren't too big. Unless you pay 2 grand for special build. Strange, consider how tall the Dutch are.0 -
The Kinesis t2v3 is good value. But a 4 week wait. Always seem to be out of stock. Forks and bearings extra.
There are some complete builds floating around though.
Seeing mixed info on the max tyre width. Some reviews say 28mm without guards. 25mm with. Their site says 28mm with, which is what I am after when in touring mode.0 -
Found a Kinesis in my size. It's an older t2v2. Just need to go through the faff of find bearings and forks now.
I am planning on not building this up but just switching parts across from my Canyon when I want to do a light tour or winter ride.
I was set on the Condor but their email responses were pretty poor. I wanted to head down to London to see it first. My size is not kept on site but at a warehouse, so they needed a couple of days notice to send it to the shop.0 -
"I am planning on not building this up but just switching parts across from my Canyon when I want to do a light tour or winter ride"
Even if you're really short of storage space I think you'll soon get bored with the faff. I had a Kinesis Tk as an all-year round bike and bought a CR1-SL frameset. Transferred everything across as a way of getting out on the carbon frame as soon and as cheaply as possible. But then wanted the Tk up and running again because the weather turned wet... It's not a 5 minute job, and the cables aren't the same length
In the end I bought enough cheap / second hand bits to make 2 complete bikes so I can just wheel out whichever one the weather dictates0 -
Keef, you are right. I bought a 2nd set of cables. I'll also have to get a different stem as the Canyon is 1 1/4".
Also the front gear changers are different, clamp v tab (what's the name for the carbon version of 'brazed on'?
But I won't be swapping them out too often and it means I will have good quality gear on either frame.0 -
They haven't come up with a new term for the front mech mount riveted / bonded to a carbon frame, so they are still commonly referred to as braze-on mounts, and front mechs still as band-on or braze-on.
Suppose it's a bit like clipless pedals, which refers to the lack of toe-clips, which disappeared in the 80s...
And threadless headsets.
Why do we describe things in terms of features they no longer posess.... Wireless headphones...
I'm rambling now0 -
A lot of the current gravel /adventure bikes would fir that category well, and have the extra strength to cope with your size and some touring luggage. Rack and guard mounts too - essetnailly they have become 'touring' bikes, but with disc brakes and without the SPD sandals.
Lots of aluminium options - not sure of large sizes but look at pinnacle arkose / Norco search / Orro / Mango AR / Charge Plug (plus others I'm sure!)
There is a nice steel Kona - Roadhouse?
Also titanium - The new Planet X TI bikes are probably not large enough, but Kinesis ATR, Sabbath September Disc are possibles.
Bear in mind that gravel bikes are more like MTB geometries with shorter stems and seat tubes for an equivalent road bike.0 -
Bike has now been built. Kinesis Racelight T2V2 size 63cm. White. £179. Fork Kinesis DC07 £109.
I was very lucky, the Canyon cables all changed over without any adjustments. The bummer is that I bought all new cables.
Took about an hour to build up the bike. And another hour just to put the mudguards on. I still haven't cut them down to length yet. They are Chromoplastics. Not much space with the 23mm tyres. I was hoping to use 28mm. I don't think that will be possible.
My spare rack is for a moutain bike with disc brakes. So will need to order a new one. It is too robust to bend and I can't find the long spacers. A new one will be lighter, so not a problem.
Need to order a front gear changer with a clamp.
The lower fork bearing is not seating properly so will need to check that out. It means I can't ride the bike yet. Kinesis DC07 takes an angled bearing. FSA Orbit IS-2cc (1 1/8) 36 x 45 degrees. From CRC. I hope it is the right one?
Stem is from a mountain bike, so I will get a new one. Just need to work out the correct length and maybe a rise, as the bars may be a bit low.
Ultegra 650 brakes don't look too good. I've always wanted a set. The standard ones look really nice with Ultegra written on them. These long drops are just plain silver with Shimano written on them. Also the 'Shimano' is written off centre, so it makes the brakes look wonky. Not impressed. Should have bought the 105s.
Bought a pair of SwissStop greens for the front.
Need to get a chain stay protector strip.
Ultegra bottom bracket from CRC didn't come with the adapter tool. Last one did, so luckily I had a spare. Doesn't look nice when they are put on with pliers.
I guess I can't post photos anymore. But it looks good. Light enough for the French cols and takes mudguards and a rack for light touring. Perfect. All worked out in the end. Just the fork bearings......0 -
Alan S, thanks for the reply. I spent ages looking. Anything above size 60cm frame and you're narrowed down to very few. Most have to be ordered specially. The frame I just bought was the last one available. But size availability changes daily.0
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Remedy 7 wrote:"Unless you are the type who lies on his back, falls asleep"
A typo, I meant his/HER. I am not sexist. Please don't ban me!
I hope that this was a joke.
Do people really live in such fear of the PC thoughtpolice these days? If so that is scary! :shock:"an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.0 -
To upload pictures you load them onto an external hosting website and subsequently copy the links onto here using the 'bbcode' or equivalent.0
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Thank you Coriordan.
I remember posting pictures directly, a few years ago. It's a shame that option has gone.0 -
Just ordered a rear wheel for my next tour. UK, (Newhaven/Dieppe) France, Spain, maybe Portugal and Morocco. Starting next week.
Mavic Open Pro. Ultegra hub. 36 spoke. From CRC 'wheel builder'. A nice strong, but light, fast touring wheel. I'm going to gamble and keep the Mavic Kysrium on the front. Continental 4 Seasons. 25mm front. 28mm rear.
Old but very light, Karrimor panniers. Frame bag. And go!0
