Bike fit

webboo · July 2016

Your thoughts.

john1967 · July 2016

Cyclist....I feel uncomfortable

Fitter... fiddle,fiddle

Cyclist....I still feel uncomfortable.

Fitter.... fiddle,fiddle

Cyclist... that feels great

Fitter.... that will be 100 quid please.

zoomer42 · July 2016

If you're new to cycling and spent a bit on a bike, then id say a fit is money well spent (if obviously you go to someone who can actually do it)

You'll never really stop p*ssing about with seat height etc anyway, but at least they should get you closer to where you need to be.

BrandonA · July 2016

zoomer42 wrote:

If you're new to cycling and spent a bit on a bike, then id say a fit is money well spent (if obviously you go to someone who can actually do it)

You'll never really stop p*ssing about with seat height etc anyway, but at least they should get you closer to where you need to be.

Your last paragraph makes your first pointless.

If you adjust the saddle height then it will affect how you hold the bars and how your feet touch the pedals. Therefore a change by you completely invalidates the work of the fitter.

I find a bike fit like a chicken and egg situation. The fit fits you to the bike you have, you really need to be fitted to a bike you don't own based on the results of a test.

I find it vest to put the bike on the turbo trainer and make small adjustments yourself until you are happy. If you change one thing at a time you can gauge whether the change works for you or not.

ben@31 · July 2016

A bike fit is only as good as the guy doing it.

The bloke who did mine spent ages f*cking around with a jig. Then when he went to my bike, I could see the confused look on his face and him "scratching his head" as his bike fit measurements did not match.
Sometimes I think, in the end he just fitted any old stem and bars, regardless of the bike fit results. Funnily enough I was never invited back for a follow up.
I've read some pro racers get their own custom made frames anyway. Rather than trying to get an "off the peg" frame to fit.

zoomer42 · July 2016

BrandonA wrote:

zoomer42 wrote:

If you're new to cycling and spent a bit on a bike, then id say a fit is money well spent (if obviously you go to someone who can actually do it)

You'll never really stop p*ssing about with seat height etc anyway, but at least they should get you closer to where you need to be.

Your last paragraph makes your first pointless.

Yeah, know what happens when you make adjustments to each thing boss. My point which i was trying to make was, you could be miles off a good set up when your new to cycling. A decent fit will get you most of the way there.

In time you may/will tweak the set up when you have more knowledge about how everything works together

First.Aspect · July 2016

Do you have trouble finding a suit that fits? Is getting a comfortable driving position difficult? Do children stop and point at you? Get a bike fit - you are weirdly shaped and off the peg might not be for you.

Pretty average? Go to your LBS, get them to sell you a bike that fits, tweak this and that yourself until you are comfortable. If you find you've adusted things so that the seat or bar position looks like a child's drawing, seek further advice.

norvernrob · July 2016

zoomer42 wrote:

If you're new to cycling and spent a bit on a bike, then id say a fit is money well spent (if obviously you go to someone who can actually do it)

You'll never really stop p*ssing about with seat height etc anyway, but at least they should get you closer to where you need to be.

I had a fit done with Adrian Timmis in January last year and haven't altered a thing since.

norvernrob · July 2016

ben@31 wrote:

A bike fit is only as good as the guy doing it.

The bloke who did mine spent ages f*cking around with a jig. Then when he went to my bike, I could see the confused look on his face and him "scratching his head" as his bike fit measurements did not match.
Sometimes I think, in the end he just fitted any old stem and bars, regardless of the bike fit results. Funnily enough I was never invited back for a follow up.
I've read some pro racers get their own custom made frames anyway. Rather than trying to get an "off the peg" frame to fit.

Absolutely. Anybody can go on a two day Retul course and call themselves a bike fitter, but when the measurements aren't right they haven't got a clue what to do, My mate went for one at Planet X and after an hour of messing about and my mate being increasingly uncomfortable the fitter binned it and gave him his money back!

john1967 · July 2016

I don't understand what a so called fitter is doing that you can't do yourself.There are 3 points of contact,only you can say when your comfortable.
Nobody has a car fit so why a bike fit?

HillfitsMan · July 2016

john1967 wrote:

I don't understand what a so called fitter is doing that you can't do yourself.There are 3 points of contact,only you can say when your comfortable.
Nobody has a car fit so why a bike fit?

Agree 100%, I fit my self to every bike that I own, there is enough good info on line to point you in the right direction to set your self up.
I used to read about guys complaining about neck pain back pain etc etc reason being they are not comfortable on their own bike, so start to adjust your contact points until you are comfy on your bike.

Just my two bobs worth.

zoomer42 · July 2016

NorvernRob wrote:

zoomer42 wrote:

If you're new to cycling and spent a bit on a bike, then id say a fit is money well spent (if obviously you go to someone who can actually do it)

You'll never really stop p*ssing about with seat height etc anyway, but at least they should get you closer to where you need to be.

I had a fit done with Adrian Timmis in January last year and haven't altered a thing since.

Cool. Adrian is very good.

When I was fitted for my first bike about 6 years ago I was around 16st and about as flexible as a house brick. The position was then set up with all this taken into account and it worked. Then fast forward 2 years I was down to 13st, a lot fitter and wanted to start racing so then adjustments were made with my position on the bike.

Its all good. Some people think its worth it, some people think its a waste of money. The subject has been done to death on here

norvernrob · July 2016

john1967 wrote:

I don't understand what a so called fitter is doing that you can't do yourself.There are 3 points of contact,only you can say when your comfortable.
Nobody has a car fit so why a bike fit?

For me it was more a case of 'am I missing out on anything and could I be more efficient?'.

I went to Adrian because I knew I wouldn't be wasting my money. It's all relative, the fit cost pretty much the same as my saddle or my shoes.

kayakerchris · July 2016

My view is that you can probably fit yourself to your bike to be comfy for unto about 4 hours. Some naturally flexible people will be fine for much longer. I fitted my wife's bike using online tools and she is very comfortable for what she does.

I wanted to ride for 24-36 hours with minimal breaks so i spent a fraction of the cost of my bikes to get Adrian to fit me. Last 24 hours I did without any discomfort at all.

kajjal · July 2016

kayakerchris wrote:

My view is that you can probably fit yourself to your bike to be comfy for unto about 4 hours. Some naturally flexible people will be fine for much longer. I fitted my wife's bike using online tools and she is very comfortable for what she does.

I wanted to ride for 24-36 hours with minimal breaks so i spent a fraction of the cost of my bikes to get Adrian to fit me. Last 24 hours I did without any discomfort at all.

This is sensible advice. If you have the time you can set your own bike up to be fine for a good few hours riding. Only if you really want to push it or do very long rides would a bike fit make more sense.

diamonddog · July 2016

john1967 wrote:

I don't understand what a so called fitter is doing that you can't do yourself.There are 3 points of contact,only you can say when your comfortable.
Nobody has a car fit so why a bike fit?

^^This

debeli · July 2016

It's not a crime or an act of gross stupidity to have a professional bike fit, but for most riders in good general health it is just another piece of pampering and conspicuous consumption.

I am reminded slightly of the competitive search for quality business cards in American Psycho.

For most riders, it is enough to get the odd friendly tip from an older member at one's local club. Similarly, a riding pal with a little more knowledge or experience might suggest a tweak of this or that adjustment.

But for many rides who are still on the smack-fix rush of the early months or years of cycle addiction this is not a possibility. They may not ride with a club and may be driven entirely by what they read in the cycling press and what they hear at Sportive start lines.

There is nothing inherently wrong with having a Bike Fit, but those who favour them should not be surprised by the barely masked mocking from riders who have got along very well for decades by leaning on a wall with a plumb line and a friend to measure increments.

It really is just a bicycle. We all ought collectively (and I include myself) to get over ourselves and just enjoy the ride.

Zappy!

simon_masterson · July 2016

zoomer42 wrote:

If you're new to cycling and spent a bit on a bike, then id say a fit is money well spent (if obviously you go to someone who can actually do it)

You'll never really stop p*ssing about with seat height etc anyway, but at least they should get you closer to where you need to be.

If you're new to cycling, a bike fit will have limited value, as the fitter will look at your existing biomechanics and technique. Good pro bike fits can be hugely valuable, but you don't have to pay £100 to get basically comfortable on a bike; do some reading and tinkering.

webboo · July 2016

The reason I posed this poll was it often seems that when someone asks why does my back, knee, thigh, neck,or penis hurt when riding. Someone always pipes up " you need a bike fit mate" or worse " you need to build up your core strength"
Myth then.

CiB · July 2016

I had one because I wanted to be sure that what I thought was right tied in in with the current thinking of what's right. The end result was that with a few tweaks the bike felt better after than ever before, and for the relative buttons that it cost as a one-off it was well worth it. £60 quid about 7 years ago was money well spent then and as I still have the numbers and the spreadsheet + the knowledge that I was pretty close, it was worth it. There probably won't be any need to have another one, but having just that one was worth every penny. Amortized over a lifetime's riding it's as good as free. Why wouldn't you, just once?

First.Aspect · July 2016

CiB wrote:

I had one because I wanted to be sure that what I thought was right tied in in with the current thinking of what's right. The end result was that with a few tweaks the bike felt better after than ever before, and for the relative buttons that it cost as a one-off it was well worth it. £60 quid about 7 years ago was money well spent then and as I still have the numbers and the spreadsheet + the knowledge that I was pretty close, it was worth it. There probably won't be any need to have another one, but having just that one was worth every penny. Amortized over a lifetime's riding it's as good as free. Why wouldn't you, just once?

On the other hand, the guy who did mine was so into current thinking that it was worse than useless. Pretty much he took the guestimate measurements I gave him, decided they were okay, then made vast changes to my cleat position. I had an inch wedge on one side and the cleats were in my arches. After a few uncomfortable rides with pain in my ankle, I gave up.

Thing is, despite going back to what worked, when I tried to order a frame from that shop, the same fitter was so wedded to his to the mm measurements of contact points (that he hadn't made any effort to change) that I ended up with some bizarre frame angles (don't ask me how). In the end I had it normalised somewhat and went elsewhere for the bike.

What I took from this is that the fitter was very "territorial" about his work, and it didn't feel all that much about me.

I accept that experiences differ, but there seems to be at least some consensus that a bike fit is unlikely to be a magic bullet.

CiB · July 2016

Sounds like he was no good then. The guy that did mine kept emphasising that I should give it a few days to get used to the new position, and to come back as often as necessary to tweak it. Never had to tbh, it felt right from the off and the sort of riding I do doesn't require marginal gains. He was thorough and improved on what I thought was pretty close.

Current Thinking was probably the wrong phrase tbh, I was keen to find out if my opinion based on 40+ years of riding & falling off occasionally was close to what those who've actively looked into it and who have more idea about human physiology than me have arrived at. It was close, but I was quite happy to pay a few quid to know that, rather than spend the rest of my cycling life wondering about it.

phreak · July 2016

CiB wrote:

I had one because I wanted to be sure that what I thought was right tied in in with the current thinking of what's right. The end result was that with a few tweaks the bike felt better after than ever before, and for the relative buttons that it cost as a one-off it was well worth it. £60 quid about 7 years ago was money well spent then and as I still have the numbers and the spreadsheet + the knowledge that I was pretty close, it was worth it. There probably won't be any need to have another one, but having just that one was worth every penny. Amortized over a lifetime's riding it's as good as free. Why wouldn't you, just once?

I'm much the same. I had one done around six years ago and haven't touched my bike since, and have comfortably ridden it throughout Europe. Like you, I have the measurements safely stashed away so will probably not need another fit should I get a new bike, but it worked well for me.

Having said that, it isn't black or white as both my friend and partner have been to the same fitter, and whilst my partner swears by the setup she has now, my buddy didn't get on with it at all.

JesseD · July 2016

Been riding for years, thought I was comfortable and probably was to a degree, used to get lower back pain and numb hands every now and again but thought this was down to riding a lot. I had some spare cash and wanted to see what a bike fit would throw up so booked one.

I chose a guy who had raced for years and was well regarded, he happened to use the Rutel fit system.

What I got V what I thought I would get from it were completely different, I thought I would end up going lower at the front and that was about it, however he lowered my saddle, moved it forward, moved my bars upwards but kept the reach, he also said I could benefit from going slightly narrower on the bars.

I was told that as I had had quite a lot of changes it may take me a while to get used to the position, and it did. The first couple of rides out and I felt I had no power, to the point that I was going to move everything back to how it was, however as I had spent money on it and I am tight I persevered and to be honest the results have worked for me. I now feel more comfortable on the bike, no more pain or numbness after several hours riding.

I would recommend anyone to get one, but don’t just settle for who has the fanciest system etc, go to someone who knows what they are doing.

pilot_pete · July 2016

Debeli wrote:

There is nothing inherently wrong with having a Bike Fit, but those who favour them should not be surprised by the barely masked mocking from riders who have got along very well for decades by leaning on a wall with a plumb line and a friend to measure increments

So that would be mocking from those who had had a bike fit done by someone with some fit knowledge, a plumb line and some spanners, no?

Some know enough and can make their own adjustments. Others don't have a clue and can think they have a comfortable position, and sure enough they can ride 20 miles and still walk after the experience, but when they progress to spending several hours in the saddle they may find out that their position isn't so comfortable. Oh, and they also wouldn't have a clue if their saddle height that is comfortable is efficient or not...

For geese people a bike fit would be sensible at least. You are paying for knowledge and time. If the fitter lacks knowledge then that is another issue.

Those who can 'fiddle' with their own position will often see value in getting the knowledge of an experienced fitter to help with certain issues from slight recurring pains to optimising efficiency. Nobody is forced to get a fitting, it is horses for courses.

PP

the_hundredth_idiot · July 2016

I had a bike fit for my new bike - they included a basic fit with the cost of the bike and I upgraded to a full "3D" fit for a lot less than the cost of a new pair of shoes.

My new bike is very comfortable. As a better test, the bike shop (Corridori in Epsom, BTW, who I thought were excellent) said if I dropped off my old bike they would adjust it to the same measurements for free. Result - my old bike is also now a lot more comfortable than it was before based on moving the saddle back a little, raising the saddle (which I already thought was quite high) and moving the shifters a bit further up the bars. I'd had a basic bike fit on that old bike 8 years ago when I had bought it, but I've changed over those years (for better or for worse) and bits had been replaced or moved as well.

Given on my own experience and considering the amount of money most of us spend on bike-related stuff, I think a proper bike fit is excellent value for money. Perhaps we could get most of the way there by faffing around moving the various bits back and forward and up and down between a number of long rides and eventually getting to the same conclusion, but I saved a lot of time and discomfort by getting it right immediately.

awavey · July 2016

Pilot Pete wrote:

Debeli wrote:

There is nothing inherently wrong with having a Bike Fit, but those who favour them should not be surprised by the barely masked mocking from riders who have got along very well for decades by leaning on a wall with a plumb line and a friend to measure increments

So that would be mocking from those who had had a bike fit done by someone with some fit knowledge, a plumb line and some spanners, no?

Some know enough and can make their own adjustments. Others don't have a clue and can think they have a comfortable position, and sure enough they can ride 20 miles and still walk after the experience, but when they progress to spending several hours in the saddle they may find out that their position isn't so comfortable. Oh, and they also wouldn't have a clue if their saddle height that is comfortable is efficient or not...

For geese people a bike fit would be sensible at least. You are paying for knowledge and time. If the fitter lacks knowledge then that is another issue.

Those who can 'fiddle' with their own position will often see value in getting the knowledge of an experienced fitter to help with certain issues from slight recurring pains to optimising efficiency. Nobody is forced to get a fitting, it is horses for courses.

PP

I can fiddle with my own position ok, but i can still go badly wrong on setup, as for every persons this is the way to do it someone else will tell you to try something different and you can get horribly confused about what the right setup is for you.

Ive spent the last year trying to get comfy beyond that several hours barrier on my current road bike, and I still havent cracked it yet,to the point Im not sure if its setup or saddle thats the issue, whereas if Id found a local bike fitter I trusted, that would have been far better approach for me, but I know people who can just hop on a bike not bother with any setup and ride for 6hrs+ no problem, so it seems an art to me sometimes not a science.

pilot_pete · July 2016

but I know people who can just hop on a bike not bother with any setup and ride for 6hrs+ no problem, so it seems an art to me sometimes not a science.

Bear in mind that we are all different. I remember as a youngster we used to make bikes up from parts from local tips. We made them from what was available. I don't recall ever picking parts out because they would make my bike fit me, I just remember making a bike! I could ride it all day and have no niggles. Difference was that back then I was young, really young, flexible, fit as a butchers dog and it wasn't an aggressive road bike - they were more like cycle speedway bikes so more 'sit up and beg'. I could also make Peter Sagan look like a wheelie novice in those days!

Sometimes getting comfortable on a bike involves more than just getting optimal position. Individuals may need to work on flexibility or core strength or simply put more miles in (adaptation)!

PP

Quins · July 2016

Blimey PilotPete that takes me back, we did the same in my estate, not official cycle speedway but our own tracks where we could find them ( park keepers hated us). Seemed we were never off our bikes.

Fast forward 40 years, I've only had LBS basic bike fits on a couple bikes, they got me going . Found that as I got miles in with Saturday club rides I got some comments from other riders about seat height could do with going up. Gradually raised it. Then I changed the stem from 100 to 115 , felt better. Moved saddle on the rails... I'm comfortable but always have the nagging voice telling me I need a bike fit as I'm not off the peg ( short levers and long body) and as PP says I'm wondering if my comfort is an exchange for efficiency because I can do centuries ( when fit) , done an Alps trip, regular club runs etc. What's stopping me going for a "proper fit" is not knowing who to go to and will the prospect that if you're not off the peg then you should have a bike built. That just will not be happening with my current budget. So I'm holding back, but also concede I could be missing out. So, post basic set up at LBS I suppose I'm in the bracket of my mate says I look fine.

How much is a "proper" bike fit? Who is recommended in Kent?

cycleclinic · July 2016

Bike fitting is not rocket science. I do often and what I find is the people who come in have not thought about there position logically. While I measure people up it can be done by eye as well. Video capture is not needed. Some fits simply produce too much information.

1) Cleat position is easy to do by eye - ball of foot needs to be over pedal axle and legs go up and down in straight lines.
2) Seat height - there is bend in your leg you look for. I measure to get this right and it always is but I could do it by eye.
3) Saddle must be level if it points down you will slide forward if it points up then you don't like yourself.
4) Bum must be on the back of the saddle.
Get 2&3&4 right and your saddle will be comfortable. Many come in saying there saddle is uncomfortable I could sell them a new saddle but after I do 2,3 and 4 it is comfortable.
most people can cope with 75mm to 80mm of saddle to handlebar drop. That is what I call a sport position. You don't have to be flexible to maintain this. Saddle to handle bar drop should not to so deep that you can't sit on the drops comfortably. Improving flexibility and core strength will allow bigger drops. I am not flexible and on one bike I have a 145mm drop. Lower saddle to handle bar drop is fine but that means you are setting your bike up like a traditional tourer. Nothing wrong with this but it not necessilarly more comfortable either. Being more upright though does allow for improved visibility which can be useful.
Stem length should be long enough that you can sit on the hoods without issue and not so short that you are hunched.

So you can measure as I do but things like cleat position are done by eye. You can do everything yourself but you have to think methodically and know what a good position looks like. It is common sense to me.

You really need to now your fit before you buy a bike though. Buying on a the seat tube length or frame size alone is not enough. The last guy the came in for a fit has a bike with 40m of spacer above the headset and a really short heat tube. He had his bars tilted up to try and make it more comfortable. By flipping the stem and leveling of the bars I got him into a comfortable position but what I can't do is add headtube length. Also top tube length is often ignored and this is critical to getting the right position.

If you are comfortable on a very long ride though then there can't be much wrong. think methodically about it.

Bike fit

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