What would my H Plus Son Handbuilt Wheelset be equivalent to?

iceinbangkok

Hi - I got some H Plus Son wheels made up some time ago - Archetype Rims, Formula (Origin8) sealed Hub, DT Swiss Competition Spokes - 1765 grams for the pair. The wheels were a noticeable improvement on the stock ones on my bike. I am wondering though how to place them in comparison to manufacture wheels by Shimano or Mavic for example. In the future I might get some wheels for racing and would like to understand better what level these ones are. Or are they good enough for racing/sportives (40+ age group, club stuff only)

Anonymous

They're excellent wheels and from the sounds of your ability, more than adequate for your foray into racing.

imposter2.0

They are equivalent to any other low-mid range racing wheel which weighs 1765g

jgsi

Wheels are good enough if they feel ok for the type of riding you are doing.
I also had a pair of Archtypes built up with Sapims and Chris King hubs.... couple of races I sold them on -- the amount of flex under accelerations and climbing wasnt to my taste. I didnt lose any more ,money as they werent cheap, but seemingly lots of people drool over the word handbuilts.
I have Racing Zeros with same spoke pattern.. these wont flex even if a Chieftan tank got on their case... oh yes lighter as well.

cycleclinic

The problem you experienced is down to the nds spokes loosing tension under high loads. This leads to a sudden lose of stiffness and flex. The solution is higher spoke tension. The archetype rim can handle more than most and a 28 spoke rear with 1300n ds should not be flexing that much. There are stiffer rims though and the best ones are not only stiffer and have offset drilling.

The fulcrum wheels are jot stiffer but die to the higher nds spoke tension because of the triplet lacing pattern those spokes dont loose all there tensionnunder the same loads. This gets describes by riders as they are very stiff but this is not true. It may seem pedantic but it is important as the problem was not the wheels but the thin cx rays your builder probably used and maybe the insufficent spoke tension.

MikeBrew

thecycleclinic wrote:

The problem you experienced is down to the nds spokes loosing tension under high loads. This leads to a sudden lose of stiffness and flex. The solution is higher spoke tension. The archetype rim can handle more than most and a 28 spoke rear with 1300n ds should not be flexing that much. There are stiffer rims though and the best ones are not only stiffer and have offset drilling.

The fulcrum wheels are jot stiffer but die to the higher nds spoke tension because of the triplet lacing pattern those spokes dont loose all there tensionnunder the same loads. This gets describes by riders as they are very stiff but this is not true. It may seem pedantic but it is important as the problem was not the wheels but the thin cx rays your builder probably used and maybe the insufficent spoke tension.

Probably and maybe - really ? Of course it could just be that you're having trouble with the idea that a machine built wheel is actually better.

iceinbangkok

Thanks for the replies team - always informative and helpful (Imposter - I don't understand your point).

I didn't buy the wheelset because it was handbuilt, or think that made it special. The price was within my range and the shope Velomine had lots of good comments and reviews. I called him and discussed and it seemed to be good value for money. From comments too, it seems that how well the wheels were built up makes a difference - tension etc.

When I bought the wheels, I didn't have experience with other wheels to compare - hence my question now. There also seem to be other rim options now, like the Hunt UK weels and Components UK. Something I might think about if I went more aero.

dork_knight

MikeBrew wrote:

Probably and maybe - really ? Of course it could just be that you're having trouble with the idea that a machine built wheel is actually better.

Maybe they are handmade;
http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/technol ... ation-card

imposter2.0

iceinbangkok wrote:

Thanks for the replies team - always informative and helpful (Imposter - I don't understand your point).

In which case, I don't really understand your question. You asked what your wheels were 'equivalent' to - they are equivalent to any other similar wheel of a comparable weight.

MikeBrew

Dork Knight wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

Probably and maybe - really ? Of course it could just be that you're having trouble with the idea that a machine built wheel is actually better.

Maybe they are handmade;
http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/technol ... ation-card

Perhaps I should have said factory built. All wheels will have some manual input, usually the lacing up of the wheels. If you watch the following Fulcrum video you'll see that in the final QC, spoke tension is checked and adjusted by a machine, not a skinny bearded bloke in a shed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGm7pKx3rs

lostboysaint

Best hope the machine was programmed properly then, not by some geek who doesn't know what lacing and tensions should work to make it the best for a particular weight or type of rider. And that the machine is properly tested and calibrated - regularly. And that the manufacturer was honest about his wheels in the sales process and that what you're buying is the best product you could be getting for your riding.

MikeBrew

JGSI wrote:

Wheels are good enough if they feel ok for the type of riding you are doing.
I also had a pair of Archtypes built up with Sapims and Chris King hubs.... couple of races I sold them on -- the amount of flex under accelerations and climbing wasnt to my taste. I didnt lose any more ,money as they werent cheap, but seemingly lots of people drool over the word handbuilts.
I have Racing Zeros with same spoke pattern.. these wont flex even if a Chieftan tank got on their case... oh yes lighter as well.

Well it seems very apparent that in the above case the "geek" @ Fulcrum who programmed the finishing robot did a better job of all the things lostboysaint mentions than did the bloke who built the overpriced "Hand Builts".....

iceinbangkok

I just wanted to clarify my question, Imposter, if this makes sense. I am wondering which other wheelsets my own could be compared to from makers' lineups like Magic, Shimano or even the OEM ones like Giant (P-R2 and P-A2) etc. So I can put my wheelset in perspective. Thx

imposter2.0

iceinbangkok wrote:

I just wanted to clarify my question, Imposter, if this makes sense. I am wondering which other wheelsets my own could be compared to from makers' lineups like Magic, Shimano or even the OEM ones like Giant (P-R2 and P-A2) etc. So I can put my wheelset in perspective. Thx

For the third time, they are equivalent to any other wheelset of a similar weight. I don't know how else to say it.

apreading

In terms of performance, Imposter is on the money. Their performance will be equivalent to any other wheelset of a similar weight.

There is a little more to think about than that though - durability, reliability and maintainability.

The Archetype rims are stiff and generally build a strong wheel. They are also wide rims that provide a good tyre shape. Some rims are not so strong so rely on wheel build being done carefully and a light rider or as many spokes as possible.

I dont know what the formula hubs are like in terms of sealing and freehub mechanism etc, but someone may be able to offer some thoughts on that. I havent seen reports of Archetype rims failing so they seem reliable and the spokes are super common to no worries there - if the wheel has been built properly.

In terms of maintainability, they will have been built presumably with J-bend spokes that are easy to find and replace if you break one. Other makes like Shimano use cup&cone bearings on the hubs, which are cheap and easy to service but if they arent serviced end up needing the hub replaced. Many others use cartridge bearings which are more expensive and a bit more hassle to replace sometimes but if they are abused then replacing the cartridge will bring the wheel back to as good as new.

But even with the same parts, wheels will vary in terms of who built them and how well they did it.

There is nothing abnormal about the wheelset you have and they are probably easy to maintain and reliable wheels. So they are likely the equivalent of any other wheelset of a similar weight.

iceinbangkok

Apreading - thanks for the detailed answer - this helps my understanding significantly - rgds