Jo Cox MP murdered

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Comments

  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,195
    "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain". Man is a terrorist and should be dealt with accordingly.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

    This is not who we are.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RichieMcCorm ... 1094446080
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  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,870
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    If the political discourse is extreme on issues, extreme things are more likely to happen.

    ClJdwFfUoAAgTzf?format=jpg&name=large

    So people genuinely believe 'headlines' such as the above, and the divisive fear mongering campaigning has NOTHING to do with this crime?
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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,026
    Do they I don't know ? My point is that it may have something to do with this crime but then so might the other side of the argument denying that it's possible for people to have genuine concerns about immigration without being racist. Of course the general milieu will have influenced this person but that includes people on both sides of this debate.

    Farage and Trump are able to gain traction at least to an extent because people are ignored by mainstream politics - see for example when Gordon Brown labelled that pensioner a bigot in the general election campaign - they are out of touch with the concerns of many people.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    orraloon wrote:
    "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain". Man is a terrorist and should be dealt with accordingly.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

    This is not who we are.
    Let's assume for now he was acting alone. Is one lone nutter a terrorist? Lots of people have extreme views, but terrorism implies being part of a network with objectives.
    It's murder. Simple as that. He'll get life, which is what you get for murder. Unless he is insane, then he will be detained, maybe indefinitely.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    If the political discourse is extreme on issues, extreme things are more likely to happen.

    ClJdwFfUoAAgTzf?format=jpg&name=large
    Ah! So now the Daily Express are to blame?
    And if the campaign is at fault then the blame lies with DC for calling it in the first place, and heading one side.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Frank the tank
    Frank the tank Posts: 6,553
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    If the political discourse is extreme on issues, extreme things are more likely to happen.

    ClJdwFfUoAAgTzf?format=jpg&name=large
    Ah! So now the Daily Express are to blame?
    And if the campaign is at fault then the blame lies with DC for calling it in the first place, and heading one side.
    I'm not blaming the Daily express or the daily mail or the sun, however, when you see a montage of headlines like that and then add a warped mind it's not the most surprising event.Thankfully this kind of incident (with regard the murder of an MP) in this country is a very rare occurance.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Frank the tank wrote:
    I'm not blaming the Daily express or the daily mail or the sun, however, when you see a montage of headlines like that and then add a warped mind it's not the most surprising event.Thankfully this kind of incident (with regard the murder of an MP) in this country is a very rare occurance.
    Agreed on the rarity but if you can happily blame Brexiters then everyone is culpable.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I can't be the only one to have noticed the increase in offences committed by people with mental health problems.
    Maybe we should concentrate on how to treat the root cause instead of picking holes in the more sensationalist issues.
    I think you will find serious offences committed by people who are genuinely mentally ill has remained static for years. However offences committed by those who are using mental illness as a get out of jail free card is probably off the scale.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    ClQcUGhWIAAOzkv?format=jpg&name=large
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    So the police are using terrorist procedure when dealing with him.
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  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ClQcUGhWIAAOzkv?format=jpg&name=large

    While I am in general agreement with you about the tone of the debate (possibly) contributing to Jo Cox's murder, trying to suggest that white terrorists somehow get an easy ride in the press just isn't true. You could apply many of those squares to Muslim terrorists as well. The newspapers carried interviews with Lee Rigby's killers' ex-classmates and girlfriends, all saying what a nice lad he used to be, and what a massive shock it was for him to have turned out to be a murderer. I've seen photos of ISIS members as kids in school uniform, etc.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    You sure about that?
    (Graphic so won't embed)
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClOf9XnWgAA ... name=large

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClOf9VbWEAA ... name=large
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  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    We can't judge that Rick without knowing what photos of Mair they have access too. You may be right but what if they haven't access to more animated or controversial pictures of him?
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Yes, I'm sure about that. What you've done is found two Daily Mail articles, of the hundreds which have been written on the two murders across the British media, which support your case. But the Daily Mail also had interviews with people who knew Lee Rigby's killers before they converted to Islam, who told the newspaper how the murderers used to be hard-working and protected other children from school bullies. If you contrasted that particular article to the Daily Mail pieces about how Thomas Mair is a neo-Nazi who follows the National Alliance in the USA, who want to kill all Jews, then you'd draw the opposite conclusion and say that the Daily Mail demonises white people. That, however, would be wrong. The correct answer is that the media will wring every last column inch out of any terrorist attack that they can.
  • Frank the tank
    Frank the tank Posts: 6,553
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Frank the tank wrote:
    I'm not blaming the Daily express or the daily mail or the sun, however, when you see a montage of headlines like that and then add a warped mind it's not the most surprising event.Thankfully this kind of incident (with regard the murder of an MP) in this country is a very rare occurance.
    Agreed on the rarity but if you can happily blame Brexiters then everyone is culpable.
    I did not blame "Brexiters" at all. What I was saying was drip feed a certain ideal/doctrine and some will belive. If you're mentally unstable it can result in horrific results.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Frank the tank wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Frank the tank wrote:
    I'm not blaming the Daily express or the daily mail or the sun, however, when you see a montage of headlines like that and then add a warped mind it's not the most surprising event.Thankfully this kind of incident (with regard the murder of an MP) in this country is a very rare occurance.
    Agreed on the rarity but if you can happily blame Brexiters then everyone is culpable.
    I did not blame "Brexiters" at all. What I was saying was drip feed a certain ideal/doctrine and some will belive. If you're mentally unstable it can result in horrific results.
    Sorry Frank. I can only blame the sun and lager for addling my reading, or myself. :oops:
    Someone else blamed the Brexiters.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    No one has blamed Brexiters.

    The closest anyone has got is me, who has said that the rhetoric used on the Brexit side hasn't helped.

    In light of what the (alleged) terrorist said in court, this tweet from a kipper before the murder illustrates the point.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClQ211mWEAU ... name=large
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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    There's only one side of the argument who is painting immigrants as some awful thing to happen to the UK. And that is the same side Britain First are on - who the murderer called out before killing one of the most outspoken MPs on helping Syrian refugees.
    No?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    No.
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  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    With all the powers given to GCHQ to monitor peoples internet activity, it's surprising that this guy wasn't spotted. He is reported as being mentally ill, was in contact with a neo-Nazi group and purchased books on how to make guns and ammunition at home. What more do you need - a tattoo on your forehead?

    If they couldn't spot this guy do they really need all those powers?
  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    earth wrote:
    With all the powers given to GCHQ to monitor peoples internet activity, it's surprising that this guy wasn't spotted. He is reported as being mentally ill, was in contact with a neo-Nazi group and purchased books on how to make guns and ammunition at home. What more do you need - a tattoo on your forehead?

    If they couldn't spot this guy do they really need all those powers?
    Your belief in government omnipotence is touching.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    BelgianBeerGeek wrote:
    earth wrote:
    With all the powers given to GCHQ to monitor peoples internet activity, it's surprising that this guy wasn't spotted. He is reported as being mentally ill, was in contact with a neo-Nazi group and purchased books on how to make guns and ammunition at home. What more do you need - a tattoo on your forehead?

    If they couldn't spot this guy do they really need all those powers?
    Your belief in government omnipotence is touching.

    Well within hours of it happening they had evidence that the guy had been involved with a neo-Nazi group and had purchased manuals detailing how to make guns. And it appears he had done so. Which ever way you look at it he must have purchased the manuals some time ago and been working on this for a length of time. If it was that easy to discover I fail to see how why it had not been noticed. Are you suggesting that someone involved with ISIS would have managed to do something similar?
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Got these two:

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... o-11334670

    and this guy

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ne ... 39716.html


    There was another guy from Yorkshire a few months back who was exposed as being a Nazi and I am afraid I can't find the link now. It might even be the same guy.


    Such a unfortunate time for this guy to have slipped through the net.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    There was a middle aged man, slim, dark hair, loner from Yorkshire only a few months ago who was exposed as being a Nazi troll. There was a photo of him sitting at his computer dressed in a Nazi uniform sipping beer.
  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    earth wrote:
    BelgianBeerGeek wrote:
    earth wrote:
    With all the powers given to GCHQ to monitor peoples internet activity, it's surprising that this guy wasn't spotted. He is reported as being mentally ill, was in contact with a neo-Nazi group and purchased books on how to make guns and ammunition at home. What more do you need - a tattoo on your forehead?

    If they couldn't spot this guy do they really need all those powers?
    Your belief in government omnipotence is touching.

    Well within hours of it happening they had evidence that the guy had been involved with a neo-Nazi group and had purchased manuals detailing how to make guns. And it appears he had done so. Which ever way you look at it he must have purchased the manuals some time ago and been working on this for a length of time. If it was that easy to discover I fail to see how why it had not been noticed. Are you suggesting that someone involved with ISIS would have managed to do something similar?
    Evidence is great when you are clearing up a crime. If you think think the government watch every keystroke, then watch what you search for next, you might be mistaken. Are you? Of course not. Otherwise every house would have a van full of cops outside waiting for you. Yes, YOU. :D
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Can you imagine the banality of listening to everyone's phone calls, or reading their posts?
    Even if you filter for keywords I cannot imagine a more mind numbing job.
    Make it automatic? Even then someone has to listen/read to make the judgement to act.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • hamish_mctavish
    hamish_mctavish Posts: 142
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    If the political discourse is extreme on issues, extreme things are more likely to happen.

    ClJdwFfUoAAgTzf?format=jpg&name=large
    I think the one on the bottom right might not be real :D
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,756
    earth wrote:
    BelgianBeerGeek wrote:
    earth wrote:
    With all the powers given to GCHQ to monitor peoples internet activity, it's surprising that this guy wasn't spotted. He is reported as being mentally ill, was in contact with a neo-Nazi group and purchased books on how to make guns and ammunition at home. What more do you need - a tattoo on your forehead?

    If they couldn't spot this guy do they really need all those powers?
    Your belief in government omnipotence is touching.

    Well within hours of it happening they had evidence that the guy had been involved with a neo-Nazi group and had purchased manuals detailing how to make guns. And it appears he had done so. Which ever way you look at it he must have purchased the manuals some time ago and been working on this for a length of time. If it was that easy to discover I fail to see how why it had not been noticed. Are you suggesting that someone involved with ISIS would have managed to do something similar?

    Have you seen the timelines on that? I believe the purchases were between 1999 and 2003.
    It's a lot easier to piece things together after an event than before.

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