How good are elite triathletes?

larkim

TheBigBean wrote:

larkim wrote:

I made the somewhat bold suggestion on the beginners forum that elite triathletes such as the Brownlee brothers were superior cyclists to most (if not all) participants on the bike radar forums.

With a couple of notable exceptions that is pretty low bar. Cavendish climbs mountains quicker than "most (if not all) participants on the bike radar forums", and he does it after 100km or so of riding.

Or perhaps better stated, the gap between elite sportsmen and women and us mere mortals is huge.

The post I made on the beginners forum stated I thought they were likely "better than most (all?) who post on here". A response came back "i doubt that you can claim that they are superior to most on here, the cycling is only a ⅓ of their sport, they only need stamina, not so much skill in a bunch, from what i've seen the cycle routes are not very technical." I'm sensing from the responses on this thread that my perspective is likely to be closer to the truth than the poster who replied to me on the other thread...

(Other thread here viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=13065632&start=40 )

Pross

I have a club mate who was an international triathlete (middle distance as he feels Olympic favours strong runners). He's a decent 3rd cat and might gain a podium place in a local TT but he wouldn't finish high up in a National 25. Olympic distance is all about runners who can hold their own in a swim and bike ride. The reason the Brownlees are successful is down to the strength of their running which is very high national standard but unlikely good enough that they would be contenders at an international level.

DeVlaeminck

You do get international triathletes competing in domestic road races - I forget the name but one of the top lads used to race the E12s at Mallory a few years back. There's likely a fair spread of ability on the bike amongst them as it's the least important of the 3 disciplines unless they are doing Ironman distance - they only have to be good enough to stay in the bunch not ride away.

cougie

I guess that poster didn't watch the Leeds tri on Sunday then. It was a very tight and twisty city centre course. The Brownlees have good handling skills.

rick_chasey

...for a Triathlete .


Come on guys, if we can mock triathletes on here when can we?

r0bh

Rick Chasey wrote:

...for a Triathlete .


Come on guys, if we can mock triathletes on here when can we?

Yeah you're so cool mocking people getting out there and being the best they can be at a sport they enjoy. Well done.

rick_chasey

r0bh wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

...for a Triathlete .


Come on guys, if we can mock triathletes on here when can we?

Yeah you're so cool mocking people getting out there and being the best they can be at a sport they enjoy. Well done.

8)

Lighten up - it's a little inter-sport rivalry. It's all light hearted :P.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

larkim wrote:

I made the somewhat bold suggestion on the beginners forum that elite triathletes such as the Brownlee brothers were superior cyclists to most (if not all) participants on the bike radar forums.

With a couple of notable exceptions that is pretty low bar. Cavendish climbs mountains quicker than "most (if not all) participants on the bike radar forums", and he does it after 100km or so of riding.

All. Fairly sure his time up the Alp a few years ago was still faster than the fastest time an amateur did the L'Etape one year and he barely made the time cut.

stagehopper

Can we start a "how good are elite duathletes?" thread?

Emma Pooley - very good.

mulletmaster

Local semi pro ironman triathlete Bryan McCrystal can bang out 18min 10s and I doubt he's getting paid much for his tri efforts and is still not making podiums. Many 18minute men on here?

Bo Duke

It's a shame the insecure ones on the forum always resort to ridiculing triathletes.

Yellow Peril

Bo Duke wrote:

It's a shame the insecure ones on the forum always resort to ridiculing triathletes.

Absolutely. It's just a bit sad really, I expect one of them will post the predictable eye rolling emoji in response.

A friend of mine's son, Sam Brand, was/is a triathlete and has diabetes. Sam has competed at Island game, Euro and world age group level as a top 10 finisher. He hasn't been able to commit fully to training due to being at University.Anyway NovoNordisk the diabetic race team have picked him up and now at the age of 22 he's on their development cycle racing team in the US in his first season.

Now it isn't WT level and it's only the development team but it will be interesting to see how Sam gets on. He only did his first ever bunch race in the last Christmas chipper over here but he's got a decent testing engine and got his first podium last week. Anyone interested in his progress can follow him on twitter @SamNBrand

frisbee

I find it quite insulting to top sportsman to suggest that they are incapable of registering and posting on forums.

bobmcstuff

frisbee wrote:

I find it quite insulting to top sportsman to suggest that they are incapable of registering and posting on forums.

They're probably too busy doing actual sports to post on forums... There's a reason we're all fat and slow*




*yes I am aware this is a sweeping generalisation.

ddraver

How thin are amateur triathlete's skins compared to cyclists do we think?

cougie

frisbee wrote:

I find it quite insulting to top sportsman to suggest that they are incapable of registering and posting on forums.

Lol! As Bob says - they would be too busy training and racing. Hard to post from the bunch in a grand tour. You'd get fined. ;-)

dish_dash

cougie wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I find it quite insulting to top sportsman to suggest that they are incapable of registering and posting on forums.

Lol! As Bob says - they would be too busy training and racing. Hard to post from the bunch in a grand tour. You'd get fined. ;-)

Dunno, my man Luca Paolini managed it just fine...

Jez mon

r0bh wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

...for a Triathlete .


Come on guys, if we can mock triathletes on here when can we?

Yeah you're so cool mocking people getting out there and being the best they can be at a sport they enjoy. Well done.

Well, they're being almost the best they can at three sports, rather than the best they can at a single sport...

TheBigBean

Rick Chasey wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

larkim wrote:

I made the somewhat bold suggestion on the beginners forum that elite triathletes such as the Brownlee brothers were superior cyclists to most (if not all) participants on the bike radar forums.

With a couple of notable exceptions that is pretty low bar. Cavendish climbs mountains quicker than "most (if not all) participants on the bike radar forums", and he does it after 100km or so of riding.

All. Fairly sure his time up the Alp a few years ago was still faster than the fastest time an amateur did the L'Etape one year and he barely made the time cut.

Posting on the internet is tricky, there is always a loop hole. I presumed that if I said all, someone would point out that Robert Millar has posted. Still, I would imagine Cavendish is quicker than Millar is at the moment.

r0bh

The Brownlees were mates of Josh Edmonson and I know they went to Mallorca and joined one of the Team Sky winter training camps for a bit two or three years ago. No idea how they got on compared to the Sky boys though

paul2718

Perhaps the confusion is that the London Olympic triathlon bike segment was run at a pace well within the capability of many amateur cyclists.

Doesn't stop triathlon being a rich source of winter month YouTube amusement, nor the necessity of giving any rider with a bottle under their saddle a bit more room if they're in a group.

Paul

yorkshireraw

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

i imagine if the brownlees took up cycling full time they would be conti level, doubt they would be world tour level otherwise surely thats what they would be doing as there is probably more money in cycling*


*i say this not really knowing how much top triathletes make but guess its not as much as top cyclists?

For the best guys in the world there's likely a lot better living in Tri than being a conti/pro-conti pack rider. Estimates put the Brownlees (Ali anyway) as earning 250-500K in a decent year.
Plus they can win Olympic medals and World Titles, which they'd not do in Cycling (most likely).

Don't underestimate their running ability - Ali ran close to 28:30 for 10,000m a couple of years back - running in flats not spikes because of a calf or Achilles issue. Granted that's not top drawer but indicates sub 28 min ability if he focussed purely on that, which would get you to the Olympics - but clearly their all-round ability is what makes them the best at Tri.
Jonny came 9th in the English National XC in 2014, and ran 14:01 for 5K on the road last yr.
With the introduction of drafting in Elite Tri it means those guys from a good running background are increasingly likely to do better than those from Swimming etc. as you can re-group on the ride.

yorkshireraw

paul2718 wrote:

Perhaps the confusion is that the London Olympic triathlon bike segment was run at a pace well within the capability of many amateur cyclists.

Doesn't stop triathlon being a rich source of winter month YouTube amusement, nor the necessity of giving any rider with a bottle under their saddle a bit more room if they're in a group.

Paul

With the Brownlees in the lead bike group at the Olympics it wouldn't have been in their interests to help push the bike pace tho, as they know their going to wallop almost everyone on the run.

I'd challenge any amateur cyclist to run a sub 30 10K after a ride at that pace (or any pace).

The_Boy

dish_dash wrote:

cougie wrote:

frisbee wrote:

I find it quite insulting to top sportsman to suggest that they are incapable of registering and posting on forums.

Lol! As Bob says - they would be too busy training and racing. Hard to post from the bunch in a grand tour. You'd get fined. ;-)

Dunno, my man Luca Paolini managed it just fine...

Yeah, but he had to see his man about that thing as soon as the stage was over...

fenix

I'm not even sure that the Olympic Tri bike leg was run at a pace that amateurs would be capable of hanging in with.
The distances are often a bit wonky - and it's often a twisty turny circuit rather than a drag strip. And don't forget no long tri bars allowed. But on first look - it might give an impression that it's possible.

Richmond Racer 2

r0bh wrote:

The Brownlees were mates of Josh Edmonson and I know they went to Mallorca and joined one of the Team Sky winter training camps for a bit two or three years ago. No idea how they got on compared to the Sky boys though

Yeah, the Brownlees are part of the Leeds chaing gang that includes several of the British domestic pros as well as Josh E

larkim

YorkshireRaw wrote:

paul2718 wrote:

Perhaps the confusion is that the London Olympic triathlon bike segment was run at a pace well within the capability of many amateur cyclists.

Doesn't stop triathlon being a rich source of winter month YouTube amusement, nor the necessity of giving any rider with a bottle under their saddle a bit more room if they're in a group.

Paul

With the Brownlees in the lead bike group at the Olympics it wouldn't have been in their interests to help push the bike pace tho, as they know their going to wallop almost everyone on the run.

I'd challenge any amateur cyclist to run a sub 30 10K after a ride at that pace (or any pace).

I've posted earlier, fewer than 30 individuals in the UK ran sub 30 minutes for a 10k last year on the track, and only 34 on the road. That kind of pace is proper top end stuff.

Can "many" amateur cyclists ride a 27mph hour on a bike, as that's what they were riding at on a twisty course, albeit flat and with drafting available? Admittedly, its a ride in the middle of an event, so they are not dead at the end of it either, needing to run a national standard 10k when they've finished.

rick_chasey

Olympic athlete faster than amateurs shocker.

paul2718

YorkshireRaw wrote:

With the Brownlees in the lead bike group at the Olympics it wouldn't have been in their interests to help push the bike pace tho, as they know their going to wallop almost everyone on the run.

That's sort of the point.

I'd challenge any amateur cyclist to run a sub 30 10K after a ride at that pace (or any pace).

I don't see why anybody wants to run after a bike ride.

The speed of a bike race isn't necessarily representative of the speed bike racers could run at, and bike racers, even amateurs, can go a lot faster than most sportive riders. A group at 43kmh for an hour on flat closed roads is within reach for many. But it means nothing outside the context.

Triathlon makes no sense as a competition, but loads seem to enjoy it, so more power to their elbows.

Paul

DeVlaeminck

larkim wrote:

Can "many" amateur cyclists ride a 27mph hour on a bike, as that's what they were riding at on a twisty course, albeit flat and with drafting available? Admittedly, its a ride in the middle of an event, so they are not dead at the end of it either, needing to run a national standard 10k when they've finished.

That's a fast crit but if it was an evenish pace yes I reckon most decent 3rd cats upwards could do that.

I reckon most elite triathletes have done some time trialling though and some have done some road racing too - I remember some racing midweek races at Mallory including a guy that was a world champ at some triathlon distance - so we can just look at the results if we are interested.