How many pros still use mechanical groupsets?

Anonymous

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

How many rides have been ruined by someone forgetting to charge the battery?

I would suggest quite a few. Then again how many were ruined by snapped gear cables?

I've never snapped a cable in 30 years plus of riding. A couple of chains yes - but never a cable. Never seen it happen either.

Me neither - I've seen snapped chains, snapped bars, snapped spokes, snapped saddle clamps and snapped pedals but never a cable.

So by your logic, since you personally have never seen it happen it never happens ever to anyone. Looking up through the posts, there is plenty of evidence to this still being a regular occurance. Gear (and brake) cables natural weak point is inside the shifter where the cable end is. I have seen plenty of cables snap off here due to metal fatigue. Other point of failure is just inside internal cabled bikes where water has rusted them and it is not so easy to dry out. Sure a simple bit of maintaining them with oil would help but its a forgotten part as you don't always see it. Seen cables snap at the point they loop under the bottom bracket after being caked in salt and crap on winter roads. It does happen more than you may imagine.

apreading

okgo wrote:

Worth noting that its a very different situation being a pro having fresh cables every few days and a sparkling clean and professionally maintained bike EVERY DAY - that is why it makes little odds in terms of feel and shifting quality to these guys - for the average person though, who doesn't clean their bike and strip it each night, mech gears get crappy far far sooner than electric with mud, grime, cable stretch, etc etc.

Isnt most of the cable stretch in the first day or two of a new cable though? Agree with cleanliness but many 'best' bikes are kept pristine and dont see any grime or if they do get cleaned, so the user is no worse off than the pros. In fact many 'best' bikes with electronic shifters would not be taken out in the crappy conditions that pro riders ride in... So what you are suggesting is that the commuters and winter bikes should have electronic but the best bike can still be mechanical as it makes little odds!

okgo

apreading wrote:

okgo wrote:

Worth noting that its a very different situation being a pro having fresh cables every few days and a sparkling clean and professionally maintained bike EVERY DAY - that is why it makes little odds in terms of feel and shifting quality to these guys - for the average person though, who doesn't clean their bike and strip it each night, mech gears get crappy far far sooner than electric with mud, grime, cable stretch, etc etc.

Isnt most of the cable stretch in the first day or two of a new cable though? Agree with cleanliness but many 'best' bikes are kept pristine and dont see any grime or if they do get cleaned, so the user is no worse off than the pros. In fact many 'best' bikes with electronic shifters would not be taken out in the crappy conditions that pro riders ride in... So what you are suggesting is that the commuters and winter bikes should have electronic but the best bike can still be mechanical as it makes little odds!

Stretch is yes, but no matter what you may think about garage queen bikes, the shifting will get worse, and worse. The pro's will have new cables every few days in a big race, with new outer, that is NOT the same as someone who has a bike that's clean but has done lots of sunny miles on the same set etc.

The reason electric is now almost the only choice for anyone buying a new bike is because its very very good, its generally very reliable, an idiot can set it up, and it doesn't degrade in bad weather.

Much of cycling is nostalgia and old school rubbish - Contador known for being a fan of the old school approach - I've not yet heard of someone I know that has gone from mech to electric and said anything other than "I'll never go back".

imposter2.0

okgo wrote:

I've not yet heard of someone I know that has gone from mech to electric and said anything other than "I'll never go back".

I have (there's always one).

Bobbinogs

okgo wrote:

...

I've only heard of one person that has gone from mech to electric and said anything other than "I'll never go back".

There you go, ftfy now :-)

singleton

Imposter wrote:

okgo wrote:

I've not yet heard of someone I know that has gone from mech to electric and said anything other than "I'll never go back".

I have (there's always one).

I recently replaced my di2 ultegra bike with a mechanical Ultegra bike.
But I don't think I know okgo so his statement is still true.

okgo

I would say you're certainly in the minority.

I'll never go back, cannot see one possible advantage of mech over electric.

imposter2.0

okgo wrote:

I would say you're certainly in the minority.

I'll never go back, cannot see one possible advantage of mech over electric.

I wasn't talking about myself, just to be clear. I'v never owned electronic and although I'd like to at some point, I don't have any immediate plans to switch.

I know a chap (2nd cat) who moved to Di2 and had nothing but trouble with reliability, flat batteries, etc. Probably a rarity to be fair, but he's now back on mechanical.

fenix

Come the apocalypse you'd be stuffed when your gears run out of juice....

okgo

I did have a battery die on me in the Div Champs in 2015, I was furious. But since then nothing has gone wrong. The most recent annoyance was a broken spoke costing me a stage race, but I wouldn't switch out my Enve's for a 36 spoke set of open pro's. Just accept these things can happen, any component, any time, nothing is beyond breakage!

Further to the people I know who have said they'll never go back after switching, many of those also couldn't see the point of switching in the first place - new bike comes along that is so cheap with di2 its rude not to, and bingo, total eating of hat.

bernithebiker

I met a nice chap outside the Rapha pop up store in Palma - he had just arrived and was asking the staff how to solve a Di2 problem.
His battery was not holding a decent amount of charge and he couldn't ride his bike. The Rapha staff just gave blank looks.

I overheard and said I knew the solution as I'd had the same problem. I suggested he charge overnight from a computer or laptop, and not from the mains as he was doing. He was sceptical, as I was at first, but he wrote to me a while back, thanking me for having completely solved the issue; the next day his battery was fully charged, and his cycle holiday was saved!

It seems all USB's are not created equal.....

(As an aside, using the EW011 sensor (that sends gear position, battery level, etc. to the Garmin), used to use more power than a 'normal' Di2 system. But there was an update about a month or so ago, that has greatly reduced sensor consumption, so now I'm back up a month or so (1200km) between charges.

pblakeney

bernithebiker wrote:

...I overheard and said I knew the solution as I'd had the same problem. I suggested he charge overnight from a computer or laptop, and not from the mains as he was doing. ....

Tangent alert!
My Mum had the same problem with a tablet until I found that same solution. Something for everyone to be aware of.
Only a guess, but I guess the unit is not liking whatever wattage comes from the mains. (Hers was bought abroad).

webboo

I discussing mechanical over electronic with a friend who owns a bike shop who was initially sceptical about the performance of the electronic systems when they first came out.
He acknowledge the reliability was much improved but said just think about how much you could spend on wheels by going mechanical rather than electronic.

thegreatdivide

User error for Nibali's c*ck up during the Giro and some other info:


Nibali also lost time due to a mis-shift in the uphill time trial to Alpe di Siusi on Sunday. Near the finish, his chain came off his chainring and after trying to correct it himself, he stopped for a new bike.

Unlike his teammates on Campagnolo’s electric groupset, Nibali uses the mechanical Super Record group.

“He uses it because he always wants to have a lighter bike. The mechanical one is a little lighter. The entire team is on the electronic group. He used it in Tour of Oman, too, but he’s looking at every avenue to save weight,” said Slongo.

“Under force, dropping the chain can happen. He was going from a 53 to 39-tooth gear. Also, I calculated that he lost 30 seconds for the problems, but if you lose two minutes then that means that you’ve lost a lot of time in other areas. We can’t blame the bike.”

(From Cycling Weekly)

rolf_f

okgo wrote:

apreading wrote:

okgo wrote:

Worth noting that its a very different situation being a pro having fresh cables every few days and a sparkling clean and professionally maintained bike EVERY DAY - that is why it makes little odds in terms of feel and shifting quality to these guys - for the average person though, who doesn't clean their bike and strip it each night, mech gears get crappy far far sooner than electric with mud, grime, cable stretch, etc etc.

Isnt most of the cable stretch in the first day or two of a new cable though? Agree with cleanliness but many 'best' bikes are kept pristine and dont see any grime or if they do get cleaned, so the user is no worse off than the pros. In fact many 'best' bikes with electronic shifters would not be taken out in the crappy conditions that pro riders ride in... So what you are suggesting is that the commuters and winter bikes should have electronic but the best bike can still be mechanical as it makes little odds!

Stretch is yes, but no matter what you may think about garage queen bikes, the shifting will get worse, and worse.

No, it won't. A bike that doesn't get wet will largely suffer from neither erosion nor wear. My experience anyway of my Look which never gets wet and always shifts like new. Even the anodising on the chain rings barely wears!

I always felt that that Di2 (and disc brakes) are things where the benefit is mainly felt on your winter bike/commuter and that ideally the mechanical stuff is left for your posh bike.

dinyull

thegreatdivide wrote:

“He uses it because he always wants to have a lighter bike. The mechanical one is a little lighter. The entire team is on the electronic group. He used it in Tour of Oman, too, but he’s looking at every avenue to save weight,” said Slongo.

That has to be BS though, as most pro bikes have lead weights added under the BB so the bike makes the 6.8kg limit.

Bobbinogs

Dinyull wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

“He uses it because he always wants to have a lighter bike. The mechanical one is a little lighter. The entire team is on the electronic group. He used it in Tour of Oman, too, but he’s looking at every avenue to save weight,” said Slongo.

That has to be BS though, as most pro bikes have lead weights added under the BB so the bike makes the 6.8kg limit.

I don't think most pros do, more like some do when they cannot do anything positive to sort it. Many ride with alloy bars/stems because the extra weight penalty is offset by some benefit, and the same goes for deeper wheels. Hence, in most cases hitting 6.8kg is not really a problem providing something like Di2 is also thrown into the mix. Maybe his bike was over 6.8 so he could afford dropping a few grammes and still be just over (or at) the limit.

I was surprised with the weights shown here on CW from a lumpy stage in the Giro:

Stage winner Esteban Chaves (Orica-GreenEdge) was closest to the limit, with his bike weighing in at 6.870kg. New race leader Steven Kruijswijk (LottoNL-Jumbo) was at 6.900kg, best young rider Bob Jungels (Etixx-Quickstep) came in at 7.00kg, leader of the mountain's classification Damiano Cunego (Nippo Vini Fantini) was at 7.240kg and Sebastian Henao (Team Sky) was a little heavier, with his Pinarello bike weighing 7.320kg.

pblakeney

It's not all about the weight.

thegreatdivide

Bobbinogs wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

“He uses it because he always wants to have a lighter bike. The mechanical one is a little lighter. The entire team is on the electronic group. He used it in Tour of Oman, too, but he’s looking at every avenue to save weight,” said Slongo.

That has to be BS though, as most pro bikes have lead weights added under the BB so the bike makes the 6.8kg limit.

I don't think most pros do, more like some do when they cannot do anything positive to sort it. Many ride with alloy bars/stems because the extra weight penalty is offset by some benefit, and the same goes for deeper wheels. Hence, in most cases hitting 6.8kg is not really a problem providing something like Di2 is also thrown into the mix. Maybe his bike was over 6.8 so he could afford dropping a few grammes and still be just over (or at) the limit.

I was surprised with the weights shown here on CW from a lumpy stage in the Giro:

Stage winner Esteban Chaves (Orica-GreenEdge) was closest to the limit, with his bike weighing in at 6.870kg. New race leader Steven Kruijswijk (LottoNL-Jumbo) was at 6.900kg, best young rider Bob Jungels (Etixx-Quickstep) came in at 7.00kg, leader of the mountain's classification Damiano Cunego (Nippo Vini Fantini) was at 7.240kg and Sebastian Henao (Team Sky) was a little heavier, with his Pinarello bike weighing 7.320kg.

What he said.

singleton

okgo wrote:

I would say you're certainly in the minority.

I'll never go back, cannot see one possible advantage of mech over electric.

Maybe so. I didn't really see much of an advantage in terms of the shifting, I prefer the feel of a mechanical lever rather than a button going "bzzzz" and mechanical looks nicer - but the last one's obviously personal.

I work with computers all day long - I don't want to ride one as well.

neeb

Cancellara too:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/videos/p ... rek-madone

Nibali, Contador and Cancellara are all top riders who perhaps have more choice over their kit than the average rider. Perhaps /more/ pros would be riding mechanical if they had the choice?

On the other hand, perhaps it just suits the manufacturers to have some riders on mechanical and some on electronic so that both ranges get exposure.

meanredspider

bernithebiker wrote:

It seems all USB's are not created equal.....

No "it seems" about it - they are definitely NOT created equal (just try charging a full-fat iPad from an iPhone charger).

Still never had a single issue from any of my Di2 bikes - all 3 systems bought as kits. The oldest version is at least 5 years old and has been through everything (including being mostly submerged) - it just works. Still on the original external battery too and, apart from charging the battery, I never touch it. No mechanical system would have been as reliable with so little attention.

freefall_junkie

Most pros use electronic because they prefer it, plain and simple. Quote from Luke Rowe, Team Sky:

“There’s no one on Team Sky still using mechanical, and for me if there was ever a choice I’d never go back to it.

“I’ve ridden electronic for four or five years, and it’s not until you hop on a bike with mechanical shifting and change gear a few times that you realise how much poorer it is. It takes a while for you to remember just how bad it was. It’s a no-brainer — I never want to go back.”

Both Froome and Wiggo are big names who could ride mechanical if they wanted and both have ridden electronic for years.

I have mechanical and electronic on my bikes BTW - cost aside, I prefer electronic for its total reliability and never needing any adjustment in years after it is first set up. Quite happy to ride mechanical too though.

Oh, and I am currently reading Mark Beaumont's new book about his epic ride through Africa. If riding 200+ miles a day for weeks largely unsupported across deserts and war ravaged countries doesn't require bombproof reliability I don't know what does. And what gears did he use? Dura Ace Di.

philbar72

I've got one bike on electronic and one on mechanical. the mechanical bike is very reliable, and has few issues, because it is reasonably well set up. the DI2 bike is comparatively a lot better but still has some minor niggles. it does allow you to do things that the mechanical bike can't do like shift the front ring that much more smoothly, and you can dump gears far quicker than mechanical, and also you have the option of sprint shifters and climbing shifters which all work seamlessly.

weirdly though I tend to ride the mechanical bike more... perhaps because it is slightly more comfortable!

teebs_123

5000 miles across 2 sets of Di2 and the only issue was when I forgot to charge the battery-user error.

Ride what you want to ride

drlodge

philbar72 wrote:

I've got one bike on electronic and one on mechanical. the mechanical bike is very reliable, and has few issues, because it is reasonably well set up. the DI2 bike is comparatively a lot better but still has some minor niggles. it does allow you to do things that the mechanical bike can't do like shift the front ring that much more smoothly, and you can dump gears far quicker than mechanical, and also you have the option of sprint shifters and climbing shifters which all work seamlessly.

weirdly though I tend to ride the mechanical bike more... perhaps because it is slightly more comfortable!

Similar here although a little different. I have one bike mechanical (Campag Super Record) and one electronic (Campag Chorus EPS). The mechanical seems a bit clunky at first when changing bikes, the levers move a lot more and need more pressure. However it excels over electronic when I want to move multiple gears on the rear (going from larger to smaller), I can do this with a single thumb press, almost instantly. Electronic makes changing gears simpler, less effort however (a) it takes longer to shift multiple sprockets on the rear (b) the front occasionally overshoots the big chainring and comes off, but I just change to the smaller chainring and keep pedalling and it goes back on. The front derailleur is extremely sensitive to this and there is no "large ring" adjustment for the amount it throws - you set the derailleur for the small chainring and everything else is automatic. May be I need to trim it inwards by a fraction of a millimetre.

Overall I prefer electronic but the Campag EPS stuff is prohibitively expensive.

thepeopleschamp

freefall_junkie wrote:

Oh, and I am currently reading Mark Beaumont's new book about his epic ride through Africa. If riding 200+ miles a day for weeks largely unsupported across deserts and war ravaged countries doesn't require bombproof reliability I don't know what does. And what gears did he use? Dura Ace Di.

Interesting, does he say why he chose that? I would've guessed that mechanical would have been the choice for something like that.

freefall_junkie

ThePeoplesChamp wrote:

freefall_junkie wrote:

Oh, and I am currently reading Mark Beaumont's new book about his epic ride through Africa. If riding 200+ miles a day for weeks largely unsupported across deserts and war ravaged countries doesn't require bombproof reliability I don't know what does. And what gears did he use? Dura Ace Di.

Interesting, does he say why he chose that? I would've guessed that mechanical would have been the choice for something like that.

So far he hasn't explained the choice in the book, but he does mention he spent a long time carefully considering every detail of the bike. Here it is



More detail here http://road.cc/content/news/144912-mark ... rd-attempt

Bobbinogs

I always get the impression that guy couldn't even brush his teeth in the morning without making it some epic challenge, complete with sponsorship and social media coverage.

apreading

Was Di2 the only choice for hydraulic disc brakes at the time? I seem to recall the mechanical versions did not come out until some time later?