Islabike Pro Series - how much?!?!

gllewellyn

http://www.islabikes.co.uk/islabikes-pro-series

£800 for the new Cnoc 16 (designed for 4 yr olds)! :shock:
http://www.islabikes.co.uk/islabikes-pr ... pro-series

I've always thought that Islabikes, while expensive, were also very good value. And while the spec of these bikes looks amazing, unfortunately, my kids won't be getting one any time soon!

However, I expect that their order book is filling up already!

jomoj

yeah I just looked at this. My son is just getting the hang of his Cnoc but I'm pretty sure it would have been a quicker process if it had had red anodised brake cable adjusters...

I guess they saw the willingness to (over)spend on kids bikes and went for it.

fenix

People buy designer baby gros. Adidas Shokz trainers for kids who can't walk.

oxoman

Whilst I appreciate the high spec of some of the bikes, my eldest wouldn't appreciate the difference between his Moda Mezzo with mechanical gears etc and the pro series equivalent with Di2 spec and discs. Ok he might like his bike about half a kg lighter than it is in current form, but how can I justify spending over £1400 on a kids bike. I personally thing Islabike are losing the plot a little, yes up the spec and embrace the increased competition but a step to far me thinks.

jomoj

oxoman wrote:

Whilst I appreciate the high spec of some of the bikes, my eldest wouldn't appreciate the difference between his Moda Mezzo with mechanical gears etc and the pro series equivalent with Di2 spec and discs. Ok he might like his bike about half a kg lighter than it is in current form, but how can I justify spending over £1400 on a kids bike. I personally thing Islabike are losing the plot a little, yes up the spec and embrace the increased competition but a step to far me thinks.

I agree, it seems just a little grotesque but I'm aware that is somewhat hypocritical as the amount I spent on (2nd hand) isla and frog bikes would seem equally ridiculous to many people.

natrix

There are quite a few childrens bike races and keen dads have already been tweeking their childrens bikes with carbon bars etc, so i expect that these will sell well to that market.

Islabikes have a great resale value so a £1000 Beinn would only cost you a few hundred in the long term. As a hobby it would still be a lot cheaper than ownng a horse. I can't convince myself to get them for my children though.......

JoannC

That is a lot of money for a hardtail bike especially a kids one. It is not the only kids bike at that kind of price I think Kona and Commencal have similarly priced models that are full suspension.

It looks very nice and well thought out, but is it £900 better than Dawes Academy 24inch bike or the Commencal HT Meta?

simon_e

oxoman wrote:

I personally thing Islabike are losing the plot a little, yes up the spec and embrace the increased competition but a step to far me thinks.

Isla and her team won't have done this without having researched it very thoroughly. They know their market and are a leader, not a follower.

Whether they are worth it is an individual decision. For me yes, they are prohibitively expensive and my kids wouldn't benefit in any way. But the price as such is no big deal compared to the fancy bikes and gear people carry around on the roof of their overpriced status symbol cars.

My kids ride their Beinn 24s to school every day but don't have an iPad, smartphone, console, or a separate TV or PC while many of their contemporaries seem to have all those things.

cougie

It's not like they've ditched the cheaper ranges though is it? You have the choice? why is it losing the plot to offer more choice?

Steve-XcT

Just looking at the Creig 24 Pro.... @ £1500 quid I'd want OPTIONS .....

On the plus, only 24" company to make a bike a kid just moving onto a 24" can realistically ride...

At £1500 you'd really expect the Stans to be paired with some decent hubs and spokes..(so your looking at another £150 to have the wheels rebuilt)..and usable (trigger) shifts. Still you can replace the gripshift for £50.. (They use a Shimano 11sp cassette, What was wrong with M8000 brakes and trigger shifts??? personally I prefer my 6yr old kid playing with mineral oil not DOT when he's bleeding his brakes! (Or does Pro mean they have their own mechanic) ..25.4 seatpost.... really limits the possibility for dropper posts...

It's freakin nice but .. I'd love to just be able to buy Frame, Forks and Cranks for say £1,000 than Isla's "Kids MUST use gripshifts" ... and you can buy a decent set of rims but not hubs/spokes ???

oxoman

I'm all for giving kids a decent choice of bikes with decent specs, but realistically do they need Di2 gearing. My lad does various rides on a triban junior 24", and has a Moda mezzo 26" for best. He's happy riding at various events on this against mates on islabikes, hoys, etc without spending over a grand, my own road bike doesn't have Di2 not that I want it. My reasoning about why I feel they have lost the plot is purely from the monetary side of things. Some parents can afford it others can't but will feel pressured into getting the best they can, but realistically their child will quite possibly do no better on the more expensive bike. The one thing I have always said and will continue to say is Islabike has been at the forefront of bringing properly designed bikes for kids and as a result the competition has finally followed suit and the choice is a lot better than a few years ago. The only thing that no one has really succeeded in is designing STi shifters that small hands can actually reach.

Steve-XcT

oxoman wrote:

I'm all for giving kids a decent choice of bikes with decent specs, but realistically do they need Di2 gearing. My lad does various rides on a triban junior 24", and has a Moda mezzo 26" for best. He's happy riding at various events on this against mates on islabikes, hoys, etc without spending over a grand, my own road bike doesn't have Di2 not that I want it. My reasoning about why I feel they have lost the plot is purely from the monetary side of things. Some parents can afford it others can't but will feel pressured into getting the best they can, but realistically their child will quite possibly do no better on the more expensive bike. The one thing I have always said and will continue to say is Islabike has been at the forefront of bringing properly designed bikes for kids and as a result the competition has finally followed suit and the choice is a lot better than a few years ago. The only thing that no one has really succeeded in is designing STi shifters that small hands can actually reach.

Oh, with you on the Di2 ... and Islabikles are the only manufacturer I know actually sell bikes with a correct(ish) crank length. (I'm guessing SJS would custom build though)

I'm still trying to understand how other than these ProBikes manufacturers make kids road bikes so heavy though.
Road groupsets are lighter... wheels are lighter, frames should be lighter ... you can lose at least 1kg on forks ?


I'm mostly curious ....as a fitter rider on a heavier bike is always going to be faster on road than a less fit one on a lighter bike. (Off road it seems not as technique seems far more important on both descents and climbing)

Is it the frame? Components? ....
I've been curious as to the actual frame weights of the standard Islabikes.... actually wondering if I bought a Creig 24 and put the upgraded components from my kids Cannondale would it be lighter ??? (I'm not going to unless someone was selling a frame separately - just curious)

e.g.

Upgraded Cannondale Race = 9.5 kg (with pedals) (32H wheels so about 100g+ extra spokes and 20g or so of extra nipples)

Standard Creig 24 (same forks) = 10.56kg (24h wheels)

Creig 24 Pro 8.8kg Rockshox (excluding pedals) (24h wheels)

Is the frame identical on the 2 Creig's?? How does that compare to the Cannondale frame OR any other 24" frame? (Given I bought the 'dale for the forks)

imposter2.0

Simon E wrote:

Isla and her team won't have done this without having researched it very thoroughly. They know their market and are a leader, not a follower.

Not sure that's true. They are reacting to a change in the market, where technology has moved on and they are no longer the only player in the 'serious kids bike' sector. There's more choice than ever now, and they certainly needed to respond with some disc options, but I'm not sure that upping both the spec and the price is the right answer.

simon_e

Imposter wrote:

There's more choice than ever now, and they certainly needed to respond with some disc options, but I'm not sure that upping both the spec and the price is the right answer.

As others have said, these are not replacing the standard range so what's the problem? It's a small market and not many parents will spend £1,000 or more on a child's bike but the company want those that do to choose an Islabike while those that aspire to but can't afford/justify it will also buy an Islabike. I won't be at all surprised if there is some 'trickle down' of these spec tweaks in due course.

Perhaps you know the market better than they do. However, this is from a comment on FB by Tom Payton, who worked with and raced CX for Islabikes for a number of years:

Many people forget that a child's bike requires similar design time, similar manufacturing costs and similar selling time to that of an adults bike. The only difference is that an adults bike requires more material. If we take the example of the Pro series Beinn 20 at £999, this would actually be placed as a "mid-ranged" model in a range of hybrid adults bikes. If we then consider the design time which has gone in to each and every component, this bike represents astonishing value for money.

Why don't people criticise other brands such as Giant for doing the same thing? They sell Defy models from £500 up to £5,500 alongside the TCR and Propel. Why isn't the £500 Defy good enough for everyone?

Perhaps we should bemoan helmet manufacturers for offering models at £30 and £180 to do exactly the same job.

apreading

Simon E wrote:

Imposter wrote:

There's more choice than ever now, and they certainly needed to respond with some disc options, but I'm not sure that upping both the spec and the price is the right answer.

As others have said, these are not replacing the standard range so what's the problem? It's a small market and not many parents will spend £1,000 or more on a child's bike but the company want those that do to choose an Islabike while those that aspire to but can't afford/justify it will also buy an Islabike. I won't be at all surprised if there is some 'trickle down' of these spec tweaks in due course.

Perhaps you know the market better than they do. However, this is from a comment on FB by Tom Payton, who worked with and raced CX for Islabikes for a number of years:

Many people forget that a child's bike requires similar design time, similar manufacturing costs and similar selling time to that of an adults bike. The only difference is that an adults bike requires more material. If we take the example of the Pro series Beinn 20 at £999, this would actually be placed as a "mid-ranged" model in a range of hybrid adults bikes. If we then consider the design time which has gone in to each and every component, this bike represents astonishing value for money.

Why don't people criticise other brands such as Giant for doing the same thing? They sell Defy models from £500 up to £5,500 alongside the TCR and Propel. Why isn't the £500 Defy good enough for everyone?

Perhaps we should bemoan helmet manufacturers for offering models at £30 and £180 to do exactly the same job.

Thing is, people dont grow out of adult bikes 18 months later.

I am sure there will be a few willing to pay the extra for the pro series models but I have concerns that their resale value wont be up to Islabike's normal standards. I suspect the people they will appeal to are more likely to want a new bike than second hand. In the second hand market, I suspect the prices of the normal and pro series wont be so far apart but there wont be many pro series available due to limited supply.

oxoman

I think the real moan was more to do with would a child really benefit from a £1000 plus bike against a midrange bike say £200 / £500 used normally and not against the research etc that goes into said bikes. Please note I do not include bike shaped objects as I personally think they shouldn't be allowed. The one thing I have and said and will always say is that Islabike have forced the bigger manufacturers to eventually up their game and that has got to be good for all kids. Only wish someone could come up with sti shifters in child friendly sizes, my youngest struggles with his as he only has small hands and struggles to reach comfortably. I wouldn't mind paying extra for this kind of innovation.

simon_e

apreading wrote:

Thing is, people dont grow out of adult bikes 18 months later.

Have you seen the number of bikes for sale on ebay with "has hardly been used..." in the description?

Nobody makes the same fuss over someone buying an iPhone instead of a cheap mobile or the current season's Man Utd kit instead of sticking with last year's. A 3 or 5 year old car doesn't need replacing but lots of people are only too ready to be seen driving the latest 4x4. I doubt the resale value keeps them awake at night.

apreading wrote:

I am sure there will be a few willing to pay the extra for the pro series models but I have concerns that their resale value wont be up to Islabike's normal standards.

They will sell for what buyers are prepared to pay. Unless you're planning to buy one why would it bother you?

imposter2.0

Simon E wrote:

Imposter wrote:

There's more choice than ever now, and they certainly needed to respond with some disc options, but I'm not sure that upping both the spec and the price is the right answer.

As others have said, these are not replacing the standard range so what's the problem? It's a small market and not many parents will spend £1,000 or more on a child's bike but the company want those that do to choose an Islabike while those that aspire to but can't afford/justify it will also buy an Islabike. I won't be at all surprised if there is some 'trickle down' of these spec tweaks in due course.

Perhaps you know the market better than they do. However, this is from a comment on FB by Tom Payton, who worked with and raced CX for Islabikes for a number of years:

Many people forget that a child's bike requires similar design time, similar manufacturing costs and similar selling time to that of an adults bike. The only difference is that an adults bike requires more material. If we take the example of the Pro series Beinn 20 at £999, this would actually be placed as a "mid-ranged" model in a range of hybrid adults bikes. If we then consider the design time which has gone in to each and every component, this bike represents astonishing value for money.

Why don't people criticise other brands such as Giant for doing the same thing? They sell Defy models from £500 up to £5,500 alongside the TCR and Propel. Why isn't the £500 Defy good enough for everyone?

Perhaps we should bemoan helmet manufacturers for offering models at £30 and £180 to do exactly the same job.

Blimey - calm down?

As apreading suggested, it's a lot of money to spend on a bike that most kids will only ride for a year or less. I'm not criticising them for expanding their range, but I am not personally convinced these bikes will be big sellers in the same way that the existing range is/was.

simon_e

Imposter wrote:

Blimey - calm down?

Perfectly calm, thanks I just don't see what logic lies behind all the negativity.

They surely won't sell as many Pro series as the standard range but then again Giant don't sell as many of the £5k Defy as the £500 model. So what?

imposter2.0

This is a discussion thread - I would have thought all viewpoints are welcome, providing they can be explained.

Just because I'm not blowing up balloons and popping champagne corks in celebration of the launch of their new range, does not mean I'm being negative.

Steve-XcT

oxoman wrote:

Only wish someone could come up with sti shifters in child friendly sizes, my youngest struggles with his as he only has small hands and struggles to reach comfortably. I wouldn't mind paying extra for this kind of innovation.

I haven't tried any road groupsets but my 6yr old has no probs on his XT M780 shifters ...? Certainly not changing up/down a gear at a time as opposed to 3/2 at a time which he can also do but with a little more stretch.

The biggest change was actually sticking in a fully enclosed good quality cable from shifter to rear mech...

oxoman

Steve, youngest gets on ok with standard mtb trigger shifters it's drop handlebar sti shifters as in 105, ultegra, sora etc.

Mike Healey

If you go to pretty much every Brit Cyc youth race, you'll see some seriously expensive bikes being ridden by them. So the new Islabike range isn't that far out of line, if at all, with those models.

imposter2.0

Except that none of the new 'pro series' range is eligible for BC road events at the moment (assuming you were talking about BC's Youth Circuit Series). Which just makes them expensive cross bikes...

Anonymous

Twist grip lol.

Islabikes are very much like Specialized, but with added snob value.
They are ok, but not the best.
Boden of bikes.

Would I spend £800 or whatever on a kids bike? Hell yes if it were nice enough.
Would I spend it on an Islabike? Hell no, no matter how nice it was!!

Just too naff and sad IMO.

Shame as I think that the concept of trying to get ridable kids bikes is a great one.
I would rather have a Hoy kids bike.

oxoman

Managed to pick a moda mezzo up for junior oxomans next road bike, not getting on to good with sti shifters at the minute, short fingers.