Shimano WH6800 or Handbuilt Archetypes?

Camcycle1974

About to buy an Enigma with everything bar the wheels (buying a frameset then having the components added rather than buying a complete, ready made spec) but as my current wheels (Archetypes) have 10spd hubs I can't use them on the new bike. So, the dilemma is Shimanos or the Archetypes? Cost probably similar.

letap73

My personal preference would be for the handbuilt Archetypes with a good solid hub like the miche Primato and Sapim spokes. To be honest I do not know to much about the shimano option. However, the handbuilt Archetypes can cover virtually all the bases you require in a good solid wheelset.

cycleclinic

Cant you just change the freehub.

Camcycle1974

thecycleclinic wrote:

Cant you just change the freehub.

Not too sure Malcolm. I took it to my local shop who said no as the spacing was not sufficient. I'll ask where i bought the wheels (Bike Ambulance in Cambridge which is directly opposite to where I work). If not then I may well be coming to you for a set. Also have a set of carbon rims I would like a 2nd opinnion on.

Camcycle1974

letap73 wrote:

My personal preference would be for the handbuilt Archetypes with a good solid hub like the miche Primato and Sapim spokes. To be honest I do not know to much about the shimano option. However, the handbuilt Archetypes can cover virtually all the bases you require in a good solid wheelset.

Leaning towards another set of Archetypes as well but the gunmetal grey ones this time. My reason for looking at the Shimanos was cost, ease of maintenance and ability to run tubeless. I think the Archetypes can be run tubeless too though?

dj58

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Leaning towards another set of Archetypes as well but the gunmetal grey ones this time. My reason for looking at the Shimanos was cost, ease of maintenance and ability to run tubeless. I think the Archetypes can be run tubeless too though?

This article seems to suggest that you can, paragraph 8. http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/ ... s-wheelset

You also have the option to become part of the BORG collective.

http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections ... -xr22t-rim
http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections ... -xr31t-rim

Camcycle1974

Hubs are these ones http://www.viacomponents.co.uk/hubs.html

ugo.santalucia

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Hubs are these ones http://www.viacomponents.co.uk/hubs.html

Aren't the Via a form of Bitex? They improved the freehub at the same they switched to 11 speed, so I am not sure there is compatibility... this 11 speed thing is a total bummer... you have to "throw away" a pair of wheels so that you can benefit from an extra sprocket you don't need.

You can run road tubeless tyres on Archetype, although if you lose pressure (say below 60 PSI) they will burp and lose more pressure and go flat... I wouldn't use them tubeless with big tyres at low pressure, but with 23-25 they will be fine

Camcycle1974

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Hubs are these ones http://www.viacomponents.co.uk/hubs.html

Aren't the Via a form of Bitex? They improved the freehub at the same they switched to 11 speed, so I am not sure there is compatibility... this 11 speed thing is a total bummer... you have to "throw away" a pair of wheels so that you can benefit from an extra sprocket you don't need.

You can run road tubeless tyres on Archetype, although if you lose pressure (say below 60 PSI) they will burp and lose more pressure and go flat... I wouldn't use them tubeless with big tyres at low pressure, but with 23-25 they will be fine

Thanks Ugo. Yes, pretty sure they are re-branded Bitex with a fancy freehub that makes a nice buzzing noise. Completely agree, I have been more than happy running 10spd 105 on all my bikes but would have to go to Tiagra now to stay 10spd. The bike will be coming with 11spd 105 so it looks as if a new set of wheels will be necessary. No big deal as I am still running 10spd 105 on my Caad X so my existing wheels can just stay on the Caad.

ugo.santalucia

Camcycle1974 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Hubs are these ones http://www.viacomponents.co.uk/hubs.html

Aren't the Via a form of Bitex? They improved the freehub at the same they switched to 11 speed, so I am not sure there is compatibility... this 11 speed thing is a total bummer... you have to "throw away" a pair of wheels so that you can benefit from an extra sprocket you don't need.

You can run road tubeless tyres on Archetype, although if you lose pressure (say below 60 PSI) they will burp and lose more pressure and go flat... I wouldn't use them tubeless with big tyres at low pressure, but with 23-25 they will be fine

Thanks Ugo. Yes, pretty sure they are re-branded Bitex with a fancy freehub that makes a nice buzzing noise. Completely agree, I have been more than happy running 10spd 105 on all my bikes but would have to go to Tiagra now to stay 10spd. The bike will be coming with 11spd 105 so it looks as if a new set of wheels will be necessary. No big deal as I am still running 10spd 105 on my Caad X so my existing wheels can just stay on the Caad.

You can always run 10 sprockets only and keep the wheels. Might need to use the spacer... it's doable, a friend of mine sorted it that way

Camcycle1974

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Hubs are these ones http://www.viacomponents.co.uk/hubs.html

Aren't the Via a form of Bitex? They improved the freehub at the same they switched to 11 speed, so I am not sure there is compatibility... this 11 speed thing is a total bummer... you have to "throw away" a pair of wheels so that you can benefit from an extra sprocket you don't need.

You can run road tubeless tyres on Archetype, although if you lose pressure (say below 60 PSI) they will burp and lose more pressure and go flat... I wouldn't use them tubeless with big tyres at low pressure, but with 23-25 they will be fine

Thanks Ugo. Yes, pretty sure they are re-branded Bitex with a fancy freehub that makes a nice buzzing noise. Completely agree, I have been more than happy running 10spd 105 on all my bikes but would have to go to Tiagra now to stay 10spd. The bike will be coming with 11spd 105 so it looks as if a new set of wheels will be necessary. No big deal as I am still running 10spd 105 on my Caad X so my existing wheels can just stay on the Caad.

You can always run 10 sprockets only and keep the wheels. Might need to use the spacer... it's doable, a friend of mine sorted it that way

Thanks but not sure I'd want to bodge it. Also, gives me an excuse to buy new wheels Looking at grey anodised Archetypes, Novatec hubs for about £250. I think these will compliment a Ti frame very well.

ugo.santalucia

If you need an excure to buy new wheels, then go the all way and get them with Hope hubs in red or gold

matt_n-2

Can you get a Campag freehub body for your current hub?

That way you can run an 11 speed Campag cassette with the 105.

ugo.santalucia

Matt_N wrote:

Can you get a Campag freehub body for your current hub?

That way you can run an 11 speed Campag cassette with the 105.

Except the cost of a new freehub and a couple of 11 speed Campagnolo cassettes is probably the same as a new pair of wheels

MisterMuncher

There is a firm that machines an Ultegra 11 speed cassette to fit a 10 speed freehub, too.

alan_sherman

I think silver on a Ti frame looks a bit weird. Black gives a nice contrast. I had some silver Kyseriums and I never thought the silver looked right. Also Ti fat tubes need deeper rims to balance looks too..

So why not just get your wheels rebuilt around a new 11speed rear hub? Probably the cheapest option. Front wheels last forever.

Silver wheels:


Deep dark wheels:

matt_n-2

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Matt_N wrote:

Can you get a Campag freehub body for your current hub?

That way you can run an 11 speed Campag cassette with the 105.

Except the cost of a new freehub and a couple of 11 speed Campagnolo cassettes is probably the same as a new pair of wheels

Granted you have to use a Chorus 11 speed cassette, but they're £70 and a freehub can't be more than £40-50.

Just offering up some options.

arlowood

Personally I'd go for the Archetype/Miche Primato option from Malcolm at Cycleclinic. Ordered a set to complete my build of a Planet X Pro Carbon frameset a few weeks back.



They have been great so far - smooth and comfy. I think they'd be the ideal complement for your Ti frame

drlodge

Together with a pair of Michelin Pro4 Service Course 25c? That's a good set of wheels, personally I'd be looking at a tubeless rim, or running the Archetypes tubeless.

arlowood

drlodge wrote:

Together with a pair of Michelin Pro4 Service Course 25c? That's a good set of wheels, personally I'd be looking at a tubeless rim, or running the Archetypes tubeless.

In my case - actually Michelin Pro4 Endurance in 28c. Plush ride and the clearance is not really an issue to my surprise

Camcycle1974

alan sherman wrote:

I think silver on a Ti frame looks a bit weird. Black gives a nice contrast. I had some silver Kyseriums and I never thought the silver looked right. Also Ti fat tubes need deeper rims to balance looks too..

So why not just get your wheels rebuilt around a new 11speed rear hub? Probably the cheapest option. Front wheels last forever.

Silver wheels:


Deep dark wheels:

I agree that silver does not look the best on a metal frame. The Archetypes are dark grey with black lettering so not silver really. There is another picture further down with the black rims with black spokes/hubs which is what I have currently. I think the dark grey will work with black hubs and spokes. I would probably go for a set of Hunts but they seem to be out of stock until th eend of June. I could be patient however

Camcycle1974

Also just sold a bike with carbon rims and I don't intend going there again.

Camcycle1974

arlowood wrote:

Personally I'd go for the Archetype/Miche Primato option from Malcolm at Cycleclinic. Ordered a set to complete my build of a Planet X Pro Carbon frameset a few weeks back.



They have been great so far - smooth and comfy. I think they'd be the ideal complement for your Ti frame

They do look good but I fancy a change from the stealth black on black look. Had a lovely Ribble 872 with carbon rims recently and fancy something different.

oldbazza

Bicycle Ambulance built my Archetype/Novatecs(disc hubs) up and they are still going strong;been good with Hutchy Sectors tubeless so far,loose a bit of pressure if left for a few days but otherwise fine.Great for bombing down the Cam cycle path too .

Camcycle1974

oldbazza wrote:

Bicycle Ambulance built my Archetype/Novatecs(disc hubs) up and they are still going strong;been good with Hutchy Sectors tubeless so far,loose a bit of pressure if left for a few days but otherwise fine.Great for bombing down the Cam cycle path too .

I was in there this afternoon OB. Discussing a build with Archetypes in grey, silver spokes and hubs. Tempting but I also fancy something deeper and designed for tubeless. Have been looking at Superstar's options which get mixed reviews and also Cosine from Wiggle which are the same. I do prefer a handbuilt wheel but budget also comes into it. Wide, 31 deep Superstars can be had for about £200 right now.

MikeBrew

Camcycle1974 wrote:

I do prefer a handbuilt wheel but budget also comes into it. Wide, 31 deep Superstars can be had for about £200 right now.

I just recently got a pair of these. Silver hubs and rims but black spokes. Would rather have had silver spokes but overall they look good. The ride is a total revelation - super stiff yet stll comfortable with the lower pressures they allow. Overall they appear an extremely robust set of hoops, thanks in no small part to wide and deep Kinlin 31 rims. Build quality is top notch too.

Camcycle1974

MikeBrew wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

I do prefer a handbuilt wheel but budget also comes into it. Wide, 31 deep Superstars can be had for about £200 right now.

I just recently got a pair of these. Silver hubs and rims but black spokes. Would rather have had silver spokes but overall they look good. The ride is a total revelation - super stiff yet stll comfortable with the lower pressures they allow. Overall they appear an extremely robust set of hoops, thanks in no small part to wide and deep Kinlin 31 rims. Build quality is top notch too.

I have a pair of the new ones with the black hubs in the basket right now. Bit of a steal with the 25% discount. £100 cheaper than hand builts. How long did they take to arrive?

MikeBrew

About 2 days IIRC. Tracked with UPS. Are you sure you selected the 31mm deep rim CX-ray Pro Build, and not the 22mm ? Last time I looked, the black hub'ed 31's were sold out. The hub options with black rims were blue or gold...
The standard (New)Arcs are only about £7 cheaper -after discount- and don't have CX-ray spokes or the better Volta hubs. They're also 95g heavier. Sounds like you might have ordered those.

Camcycle1974

MikeBrew wrote:

About 2 days IIRC. Tracked with UPS. Are you sure you selected the 31mm deep rim CX-ray Pro Build, and not the 22mm ? Last time I looked, the black hub'ed 31's were sold out. The hub options with black rims were blue or gold...
The standard (New)Arcs are only about £7 cheaper -after discount- and don't have CX-ray spokes or the better Volta hubs. They're also 95g heavier. Sounds like you might have ordered those.

It's the new version I have in the basket, not the discounted ones. Only blue or gold hubs left as you say. Are they a better build then? I don't mind the blue hubs as it happens.

MikeBrew

Yes they're better. Same rims .Better hubs and stronger more expensive Sapim CX-ray aero spokes. About 95grams lighter too. The net price difference is under £7 so you might as well. http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/a ... -dealx.htm