Yorkshire Dales ruined by motorcyclists

NikProwse

I rode in the Dales yesterday (Sedburgh/Ingleton/Hawes) for the first time and I have to say that a very pleasant ride was almost ruined by the motorbikes. They ride too close, they don't slow down or give way, their overtaking is often very dangerous. I hated their presence, the ever-constant noise of them along the valleys and how downright inconsiderate many of them were. I won't be riding in this area again at the weekend. Rant over, but is it just me?
Nik

ugo.santalucia

No, it's not just you. I rode the EDD last year and had the same experience. They treat the roads as a racetrack and the local police seems rather complacent about it... it is a shame because the event, as well as the National Park deserves better!

bendertherobot

Road through the lanes of South Wales yesterday, way off the main coast road. Lots of riders as a group ride/sportive was on. Obviously a few two abreast cyclists all moving in when cars arrived. Until the two motorbikes came haring through with horns blazing.

lakesluddite

Yeah, the Dales is a particular honeypot for our motorised brethren. You should see Devil's Bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale on a Bank Holiday, there must be over 100 parked up at the burger van at times!
To be honest, even though I ride in that area quite a lot, I'm not that bothered by them, I must have gotten used to it.

ugo.santalucia

LakesLuddite wrote:

Yeah, the Dales is a particular honeypot for our motorised brethren. You should see Devil's Bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale on a Bank Holiday, there must be over 100 parked up at the burger van at times!
To be honest, even though I ride in that area quite a lot, I'm not that bothered by them, I must have gotten used to it.

But how come we have grown to tolerate bikers doing 100 mph on an A road? Is it because there is always the secret of joy of thinking they will splatter against a van and die at the next bend?

bompington

Don't knock it, where would transplant patients be without them?

navrig2

Having been a biker, it's probably fair to say that bikers and cyclists like the same type of road and surroundings.

They probably think that cyclists are ruining the Dales....... getting in the way, lack of road position discipline etc.

Certainly there are comments like that on the m/b forum I frequent, although those have been directed at cyclists in London.

We were in Tenerife last year and had a week of great cycling. On the Sunday the roads were full of motorbikes and revved up cars. Noisy and not cycling friendly. It certainly made the day slightly less enjoyable.

ugo.santalucia

Navrig2 wrote:

Having been a biker, it's probably fair to say that bikers and cyclists like the same type of road and surroundings.

They probably think that cyclists are ruining the Dales....... getting in the way, lack of road position discipline etc.
.

Although there is the small matter of speeding being illegal. I think motorbikes are great, but they shouldn't be raced on public roads... there's plenty of circuits for that

slowmart

mmmm, I only hung up my leathers two years ago and the motorcycling fraternity is made up from the same society as you and me.

A tool is a tool, the differentiator here is the mode of transport, that's all.

Excessive speed, offensively loud exhausts and poor riding skills are not to be condoned but replace exhaust noise with bad language and you could find a similar complaint in most club secretaries inbox with those same accusations levelled at cyclists.

As a cyclist we have no choice but to share the roads, last week there was a scooter rally on and for a segment of the ride the air carried the smell of two stroke motors which took me back to my teens.

As a wider narrative the standard of driving in the UK is dire, be it cars, vans, lorries or even coppers in Noddy cars. Traffic cops are the exception and are proof there is a God as he gave traffic cops the best lines in life.

fenix

I always think driving in the UK is pretty good. Some of the drivers in France and Italy for example....

zx6man

This almost sounds like and "all cyclists run red lights thread". My username may give it away, I ride a motorcycle and ride totally safe and stay within speed limits (and my exhaust is not a silly loud one :-) ) .

ugo.santalucia

zx6man wrote:

This almost sounds like and "all cyclists run red lights thread". My username may give it away, I ride a motorcycle and ride totally safe and stay within speed limits (and my exhaust is not a silly loud one :-) ) .

Nobody said that... but there are lots of bikers who drive too fast... if bicycles could be ridden at 100 mph, there would be far too many cyclists who would ride them at 100 mph

zx6man

ugo.santalucia wrote:

zx6man wrote:

This almost sounds like and "all cyclists run red lights thread". My username may give it away, I ride a motorcycle and ride totally safe and stay within speed limits (and my exhaust is not a silly loud one :-) ) .

Nobody said that... but there are lots of bikers who drive too fast... if bicycles could be ridden at 100 mph, there would be far too many cyclists who would ride them at 100 mph

Your qoute said "They treat it like a racetrack", which is like saying cyclists run red lights. :-) Wasn't having a go in any way, just saying with tongue in cheek. I don't even do the oh so close filtering that many bikers do to save a second and the front of queues.

fenix

Did 80+ miles yesterday - we had two Motorbikes who must have been pushing a tonne - and the rest of them absolutely fine.
But its like cyclists isnt it - you only recall the bad ones.

veronese68

Slowmart wrote:

A tool is a tool, the differentiator here is the mode of transport, that's all.

This line should be posted in every thread complaining about cars/peds/buses/vans/lorries/motorcycles/other cyclists/scooterists/skiers/the Isle of Wight Ferry. Or maybe a variation of it at the top of every sub forum.
"Popular place ruined by minority of idiots" doesn't make it as a headline though does it.

cerutticolumn

My folks live in Kirkby Lonsdale, and when I visit, I always avoid cycling on a Sunday in the area because of the motorbikes. Too dangerous. You are probably alright on the lanes, but if you get onto the A65, Ingleton-Hawes road, or the Lune Valley road, then be prepared.
When talking about these things, I am always surprised that people put cyclists and motorcyclists on the same level. A cyclist, however big an a**hole, is not hurtling around country roads at 70+mph on a machine that weighs, what, 300+kgs?
Motorbikes are dangerous for those that ride them and, more importantly to other road users, particularly vulnerable ones like cyclists.

ugo.santalucia

Veronese68 wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

A tool is a tool, the differentiator here is the mode of transport, that's all.

This line should be posted in every thread complaining about cars/peds/buses/vans/lorries/motorcycles/other cyclists/scooterists/skiers/the Isle of Wight Ferry. Or maybe a variation of it at the top of every sub forum.
"Popular place ruined by minority of idiots" doesn't make it as a headline though does it.

Yes and no... last weekend I did an equally long ride in the Lake District and I have nothing to complain re. cars or bikes. Yes, some cars honked on the A 66, but they were right... folks were riding 3 abreast... yes bicycles going up and cars going down Hardknott doesn't really mix well, but what can you do about that if you can't close the road to traffic?

navrig2

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Navrig2 wrote:

Having been a biker, it's probably fair to say that bikers and cyclists like the same type of road and surroundings.

They probably think that cyclists are ruining the Dales....... getting in the way, lack of road position discipline etc.
.

Although there is the small matter of speeding being illegal. I think motorbikes are great, but they shouldn't be raced on public roads... there's plenty of circuits for that

Totally agree but would point out that many car drivers also speed. Often the illusion of excessive speed is exacerbated by the use of a loud exhaust and hi-revs. I get the same impression with these Corsa's with straight through exhausts.

That said, there are plenty of us cyclists who will descend a hill on our 23mm tyres at speeds inappropriate for the conditions, bends & "vehicle".....

How many cyclsists have a change of attitude when they get behind the wheel.

I am not defending bikers in their entirety (I gave up biking because of the risks and my personal limited skills) but very few of us are perfect when it comes to road behaviour.

slowmart

cerutticolumn wrote:

Motorbikes are dangerous for those that ride them and, more importantly to other road users, particularly vulnerable ones like cyclists.

That's the equivalent of suggesting a piece of tarmac represents a dangerous bend? There is no such thing as a dangerous inanimate object. Only humans can add the stupidity to hit the threshold of dangerous.

roger_merriman

Comes up now and then, where I'm from (breacon beacons) (roads top gear etc use) police occasionally do a blitz plus I've heard of running the odd skill sessions.

To be honest young lads in cars are more common, to kill both themselves and others.

haydenm

To add a slightly different view to this thread, I was out on Good Friday on the A708 coming back towards Moffat, loads of bikes out and about and I quite enjoyed watching them fly past at 90mph, even the very loud ones. There are pretty good sight lines along that road, they all gave me a wide berth and I felt a lot safer than having the elderly drivers attempting to overtake on corners or sit half way past in the middle of the road. I think it's because I know that I would deeply enjoy doing what they are doing if I had the chance because I am essentially an adult child, they are out having fun and indulging a hobby the same as I do at every opportunity. Admittedly they were only going fast on the wide bits of the road, and it was only for roughly 1/3rd of the ride that I was on a busy motorbike road

Without touching a nerve I would say we might be a little in danger of becoming 'those' people who complain about things the same as what I get when I ride my push bike on the road, or my other bike in the woods

Also, I don't believe that doing 90mph along a wide, clear A road with good sight lines is especially dangerous but it's illegal so fair cop if you get caught...

cerutticolumn

Slowmart wrote:

cerutticolumn wrote:

Motorbikes are dangerous for those that ride them and, more importantly to other road users, particularly vulnerable ones like cyclists.

That's the equivalent of suggesting a piece of tarmac represents a dangerous bend? There is no such thing as a dangerous inanimate object. Only humans can add the stupidity to hit the threshold of dangerous.

Put a stupid person on a motorbike, and then on a bicycle. On which is that person more of a danger to him/herself and those around him/her?

markhewitt1978

Cars cause way more problems than motorbikes, at least they can usually go past without causing too much fuss or causing oncoming traffic to have to dive into a hedge.

I think it's another example of us being so numbed to car traffic and inevitability of it being entirely normal that we notice other aspects more.

craker

We live adjacent to a B road that links the M4 with the Brecon Beacons in a rather picturesque way. VERY popular with motorbikes (and sportives and group rides and vintage car runs and the like).

We're giving the council a lot of hassle about the speed of the bikes and it looks like a 40mph zone will be introduced through the village, on top of the double white lines that got put on the road recently.

If the speed restriction is respected like the double white lines are we may as well not bother. In fairness it's not just motorbikes, I've seen cars getting impatient and doing overtaking on double whites.


What bugs me is the noise. You can hear them screaming along from miles away, then there's the stupid Harleys and the like that do about 20 mph and rumble along like low flying helicopters. Either the noise emissions allowed by motorbikes is very generous or most bikers just ignore them and drill hole in their exhausts to make them louder.

navrig2

cerutticolumn wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

cerutticolumn wrote:

Motorbikes are dangerous for those that ride them and, more importantly to other road users, particularly vulnerable ones like cyclists.

That's the equivalent of suggesting a piece of tarmac represents a dangerous bend? There is no such thing as a dangerous inanimate object. Only humans can add the stupidity to hit the threshold of dangerous.

Put a stupid person on a motorbike, and then on a bicycle. On which is that person more of a danger to him/herself and those around him/her?

That depends on several things.

Stupid and headstrong enough to ride it faster than their ability or cautious enough to be careful. Stupid doesn't equate to dangerous and, as previously been stated, inanimate objects cannot be dangerous.

You are too sweeping in your statements and are tarring all bikers with the wrong brush.

If you chose your search phrase carefully in YouTube you will find many "stupid" cyclist and biker videos.

markhewitt1978

I had a ride over the Puig Major in Mallorca almost ruined by bikes. They were all coming in the opposite direction to me but there was some sort of rally so there were literally hundreds of them, often 4 wide and encroaching into my side of the road, plus the constant roar on what should have been an idyllic quiet ride was distracting to say the least.

tangled_metal

There's a minority of idiots using any type of transportation. The issue I have is when they all start to congregate on the same roads I'm on. Devil's bridge along to Sedburgh past Barbon is one road I hate to drive along at a weekend. I've had too many incidents of motorbikers riding on the wrong side of the road round a blind right hander! So far I've managed to swerve a little into the hedge (scratched my car but no real damage) or they've managed to get over. Either way I've had enough close calls that left me shaking. I now no longer go that way.

I used to work for a company that was involved in supplying bike exhaust systems. The road legal systems that a lot of bikers have to put back on their bikes to pass an mot. There are road legal boxes that are as noisy as race ones that aren't legal. It's just that they're engineered to pass the necessary test. This is when they're run at set speed and revs. The trouble is the test is not run at the revs the super sports bikes are run at in real life use.

The whole mot/compliance system isn't worth much. Sounds like the vw emissions scandal and it is. But the whole problem with noisy bike exhausts is also down to the fact enforcement is rare and the consequences are insignificant. Buy a bike, swap out the exhaust to a race pipe and only switch back for mot tests. That's so common and there are so few.enforcements.

IMHO there should be a tamper proof seal put on by the mot tester. If any bike is spotted by police or another garage/mot tester with a damaged seal or without one then it gets reported and a suitable punishment applied. I believe the same should be applied to car and truck exhausts. I really hate noisy exhausts and I know exhausts exhaust notes as they're called are closely designed into premium vehicles. Type f jag, most road/race ready super sports bikes. I think this should be designed out personally as it is noise pollution.

BTW I know of one car exhaust manufacturer who used focus groups to find their exhaust note profiles. That's like political polling focus groups run by main parties. They find the sound then design the exhaust to match. I'm not kidding, they generate sample exhaust sounds in a studio. That was over 10 years ago now.

fenix

I know lexus pipe electronic engine noise into your car - and you can select what 'engine' you have.

I invented that years ago - who doesn't love the noise of an Aston but can't afford the actual car. So just have a speaker under your metro - or whatever.

cerutticolumn

Navrig2 wrote:

cerutticolumn wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

cerutticolumn wrote:

Motorbikes are dangerous for those that ride them and, more importantly to other road users, particularly vulnerable ones like cyclists.

That's the equivalent of suggesting a piece of tarmac represents a dangerous bend? There is no such thing as a dangerous inanimate object. Only humans can add the stupidity to hit the threshold of dangerous.

Put a stupid person on a motorbike, and then on a bicycle. On which is that person more of a danger to him/herself and those around him/her?

That depends on several things.

Stupid and headstrong enough to ride it faster than their ability or cautious enough to be careful. Stupid doesn't equate to dangerous and, as previously been stated, inanimate objects cannot be dangerous.

You are too sweeping in your statements and are tarring all bikers with the wrong brush.

If you chose your search phrase carefully in YouTube you will find many "stupid" cyclist and biker videos.

I am not tarring all bikers with the same brush, merely stating something obvious: all things being equal, motorbikes are potentially much more dangerous to all road users than bicycles.

Rather than consult that oracle of empirical evidence, Youtube, why don't you look at the figures from the local constabularies (N. Yorks, Lancs and Cumbria) and ask about road casualties in the area? The wreaths that unfortunately decorate the roadsides aren't for cyclists.

navrig2

cerutticolumn wrote:

Navrig2 wrote:

cerutticolumn wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

cerutticolumn wrote:

Motorbikes are dangerous for those that ride them and, more importantly to other road users, particularly vulnerable ones like cyclists.

That's the equivalent of suggesting a piece of tarmac represents a dangerous bend? There is no such thing as a dangerous inanimate object. Only humans can add the stupidity to hit the threshold of dangerous.

Put a stupid person on a motorbike, and then on a bicycle. On which is that person more of a danger to him/herself and those around him/her?

That depends on several things.

Stupid and headstrong enough to ride it faster than their ability or cautious enough to be careful. Stupid doesn't equate to dangerous and, as previously been stated, inanimate objects cannot be dangerous.

You are too sweeping in your statements and are tarring all bikers with the wrong brush.

If you chose your search phrase carefully in YouTube you will find many "stupid" cyclist and biker videos.

I am not tarring all bikers with the same brush, merely stating something obvious: all things being equal, motorbikes are potentially much more dangerous to all road users than bicycles.

Rather than consult that oracle of empirical evidence, Youtube, why don't you look at the figures from the local constabularies (N. Yorks, Lancs and Cumbria) and ask about road casualties in the area? The wreaths that unfortunately decorate the roadsides aren't for cyclists.

I must did.

KSI (Killed or Seriously Injured) stats for N Yorks 2014 are:

Car occupants: 42%
PTW (Powered 2 Wheelers) 27%
Cyclists 16%
Pedestrians 10%
Other 5%

So perhaps you need to be harder on car drivers.

The stats for cyclists are closer to PTWs than PTWs are to Cars.

Still too many.

navrig2

Here are the national stats for fatalities. Interesting trend. Both road and PTW deaths have reduced significantly over the last 13 years. Cyclists deaths has reduced but to a much lesser extent. My guess is that the uptake in road cycling and commuting has meant there are more cyclists on the road and as a result an increased number of cycling related accidents. Cynically one could argue that the C2W has contributed to the reduced reductions rate!