Is an Ultegra 6500 crank still able to compete with 105 5800 crank?

iceinbangkok

I decided after my last post to stick with my colnago primavera and I'm riding a lot more now. Terrain still flat (and a lot of time on trainer as there is not a convenient place to ride nearby) so I am not really testing the gear ratios yet. But I'm planning to ride a hilly 160k race later in the year and a few 100 k spotives also.

I wanna upgrade my drive train - FSA Omega crankset, megaexo bottom bracket, shimano hg50, etc. They've rusted and crank is making a noise. I have limited budget and need to still get handlebars (too narrow) and a travel bag to take the bike. So I am considering 2 choices:

1) New old stock Ultegra 6500 crank + bottom bracket (still researching) + Ultegra 9 speed cassette 12-27 = stay 9 speed with Tiagra gearing which works well now

2) replace whole group set with 105 5800

I have 11 speed fitting on my wheels with a spacer so I can choose either 9 or 11 speed groupset. The cost is roughly 180 USD for option 1 and 550 USD for option 2 - although budget is always subjective

Any thoughts, opinions? I guess there is a middle ground of getting 105 5800 crank now and upgrade gearing later. But I think the 11 speed crank might not be good with 9 speed chain - so am tossing up between 9 speed or 11 speed.

Can Ultegra 6500 crank still cut it?

imposter2.0

The crankset's job is to pull the chain around - so if you are asking will the Ultegra crankset pull the chain around in the same way as a 105 crankset, then the answer is an emphatic 'yes'..

amrushton

Can't see why 11 speed won't work? The rings are thinner altho' someone will be along to say the gap between rings is narrower but all the rings do is carry the chain. The front mech moves the chain and as long as it's set right the chain will move back/forth. Otherwise as above. Crank turns/chain moves. You won't know if it's Ultegra/105 or Chorus

alan_sherman

Assuming you are on old tiagra then another option it to go for a while tiagra 10 speed set. You get to lose the washing lines with a new group set, that would make the decision for me!

iceinbangkok

Thanks for replies. I checked my lbs yesterday. He said the 6500 crank would need a non- standard BB and not best option. He said 10 speed crank would work well with 9 speed set up. So I am considering now whether to get a 5700 crank + Ultegra BB or go 4700 crank + BB which comes as a set for half the price. Not sure about weight penalty. 5700 parts don't seem cheap.

Tiagra 4700 groupset is a good idea. I started reading reviews and it seems like big improvement. I am running 4500 which actually shifts fine. Brakes not great, but improved by changing to Ultegra brake pads.

I'm tossing up now on whether 5700 crank would be much better than Tiagra?

amrushton

The crank is just that. You could spend the money on better brake callipers

stanthomas

Assuming Colnago runs a Italian thread BB, you need one of these for your 6500 chainset: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-105-5500-octalink-bottom-bracket/rp-prod906. Nothing non-standard about it, just a bit old fashioned.

iceinbangkok

Thanks Stanthomas - that's very helpful. Do you have any opinion then on how the 6500 crank would match up to 6700 or 4700? Thanks again

imposter2.0

iceinbangkok wrote:

Thanks Stanthomas - that's very helpful. Do you have any opinion then on how the 6500 crank would match up to 6700 or 4700? Thanks again

As has been repeated many times already on this thread, you will not notice any difference.

iceinbangkok

Hi Imposter, I'm sorry I didn't reply to your earlier post when you kindly contributed to the thread I started. I understand you're saying "a crank is a crank"? But to explain, I read the reviews by Bike Radar editors whose stuff I really enjoy and get a lot out of. http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... ets-44316/

Based on that I assume there is in fact a difference between cranks which is why I persisted to ask whether I would be better to choose any out of 6500, 5700 and 4700. There are many views on the gorupsets themselves, but not so much on the crankset (outside the odd mention in a review). 5800 in particular seems to be particularly well-regarded for the price. I was hoping to get a similar view on the other shimano crankset. Hope that makes sense

imposter2.0

I would ignore anyone who claims to be able to detect minute differences between cranksets when out on the road. Don't forget, these guys are on word-count targets and have to come up with that kind of garbage every day.

Meanwhile, I'm running out of ways to tell you that you will not be able to tell the difference...

keef66

Imposter wrote:

I would ignore anyone who claims to be able to detect minute differences between cranksets when out on the road. Don't forget, these guys are on word-count targets and have to come up with that kind of garbage every day.

Meanwhile, I'm running out of ways to tell you that you will not be able to tell the difference...

I ride a 105 5703 triple, an old 9 speed Tiagra 4500 double, a 46/36 CX50, occasionally my son's square taper FSA Omega, and even less occasionally his rescued 80's Peugeot with a square taper Veloce chainset and mis-matched NDS crank.

Blindfold I'd not be able to tell which I was riding based on the feedback from the chainset.

Buy the one you like the look of most...

mugensi

iceinbangkok wrote:

Tiagra 4700 groupset is a good idea. I started reading reviews and it seems like big improvement. I am running 4500 which actually shifts fine. Brakes not great, but improved by changing to Ultegra brake pads.

I'm tossing up now on whether 5700 crank would be much better than Tiagra?

There will absolutely no difference and what it would come down to is price and looks. The 4700 crankset is much nicer looking than 5700 crankset IMO.

iceinbangkok

Thanks again for further replies - very helpful - I do need to replace the crankset as it is deteriorating rapidly - and the information in your replies has helped a lot. Thx

stanthomas

iceinbangkok wrote:

... Do you have any opinion then on how the 6500 crank would match up to 6700 or 4700?

9-speed stuff works best with 9-speed and 10-speed stuff works best with 10-speed. So, ideally, run a full 9-speed (or 10-speed) drive train. However, you can mix 'n match and, with a little patience, get a perfect setup.
Personally, I prefer the look of the Ultegra 6500 to the later Hollowtech II incarnation and it's probably more in keeping with your bike. And, as a bit of a snob, I wouldn't have Tiagra anywhere near my bike.

iceinbangkok

Thanks Stanthomas - interesting view - I actually find the 9 speed gearing and the shifting itself to be great - which is why I am considering the 6500. Will give it some more thought, cheers

Bobbinogs

I run 9 speed, although it's a Heinz 57 mix. One thing to bear in mind is that 6500 only offers a standard double which is why I don't have that as a crankset (instead opting for a 50/34 &12/27 combo). You may want to get over to somewhere lumpy before your current chainrings wear out and see how you fare with some hills. Many riders opt for the looks/kudos of a standard only to then start threads like "Can I run a 32t sprocket..."

If you can fly up a big lump on 39/25 after 60 miles of hard riding then the 6500 will be fine but many would struggle.

iceinbangkok

Thanks Bobbingos - I just realized same thing (guy I was going to buy the 6500 crank from initially said it was compact). I think I will go for 5700 as I might also get a stages power meter in the future. Thread jacking my own thread a little - but does 12-27 rear cassette with compact crank give you enough of a high gear for steep hills? I have 12-25 now and am thinking to change. There is an 11-28 option, but I don't think I need the 11 and it might be too spaced out

amrushton

Go to a gear inch calculator and put in the numbers. If 11 speed you could go 12-27 or 12-30. I'd use 48/36 but everyone is different

Bobbinogs

iceinbangkok wrote:

Thanks Bobbingos - I just realized same thing (guy I was going to buy the 6500 crank from initially said it was compact). I think I will go for 5700 as I might also get a stages power meter in the future. Thread jacking my own thread a little - but does 12-27 rear cassette with compact crank give you enough of a high gear for steep hills? I have 12-25 now and am thinking to change. There is an 11-28 option, but I don't think I need the 11 and it might be too spaced out

I am afraid this is a "it depends" one, as it depends on a lot of factors and many of those are variable and subjective. I often do long rides (say 200km with anything up to 12,000ft of climbing, mixing imperial with metric) and, even though I am a fairly decent climber, find the 27 (on my 6500 12-27 9 speed) invaluable for those kind of rides particularly towards the end. However, if I go out on a midweek club ride of 35 miles with 2,000ft of climbing then (assuming we don't pick anything more than 15%) I will probably not use the bottom couple of sprockets.

Why not try your current 12-25 and then, if you need it, buy another cassette. Swapping cassettes is fairly easy but make sure that you check the B Stop adjustment and chain length, etc., and be careful about lengthening a chain by reusing pins.

iceinbangkok

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. I ride a lot on the flat right now and try to simulate climbs on the trainer. Later in the year I have a sportive which starts with a lot of hills - I am expecting a shock to the system and want to have a lower gear for that situation. It's good to know 12-27 is working for you.

iceinbangkok

FYI - my lbs had a 5700 crankset - they gave me a discount off price, which was already cheaper than the 5800. I went for it even though it was silver and in real terms not that much cheaper than a 5800 ($120 installed vs $160). More than price, I decided on the basis that the 10speed crank would be better to choose given my 9 speed set up, than risk going with an 11 speed crank. I haven't read that it can work. The guy said the 5800 crank would work - but I have experience here that suggests he might Jerry rig something I wouldn't actually be happy with (and end up being forced into upgrading everything).

So in the end I got a good deal, and actually saved 300grams + on what I had before (fsa omega) - but have the silver dinner plate some referred to. Hope I made the right call - riding tomorrow, will see how it feels.

iceinbangkok

Have the 5700 crank on - bike but is noticeably lighter when I pick it up for what that's worth and the noise is gone from bottom bracket. Definitely undecided on the look (silver), I had been committed to going black for all components, but budget won the moment.

Now thinking about shifters with under bar tape cabling...