Cero wheel sets from cycle division

Kellee999
Kellee999 Posts: 9
edited June 2016 in Road buying advice
Hi,

Has anybody got any real world user reviews on the above mentioned wheel sets? Thinking of buying but all seems a little to good to be true!!

I'm interested in the ar30 but happy to hear opinions on any of their wheels.

Comments

  • k3vinjam3s
    k3vinjam3s Posts: 266
    http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/a ... -dealx.htm

    I considered them too but the price of these with current 25% off offer was too good to miss.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,615
    a number of my clubmates have bought the ceros. three of them so far have been stranded by a freehub failure. there's a thread on here somewhere about them. i'd steer well clear.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • andcp
    andcp Posts: 644
    gsk82 wrote:
    a number of my clubmates have bought the ceros. three of them so far have been stranded by a freehub failure. there's a thread on here somewhere about them. i'd steer well clear.
    That's a shame as we have the opposite experience. My son has a set of 30's and they've been all over Europe and the UK, used in all weathers and trained and raced on extensively and they've been great. 2 years old and on original bearings which are still running smoothly. The only issue we have had is where he was 'taken out' in a road race and it broke a couple of spokes. Can't blame the wheels for that.
    "It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Andcp wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    a number of my clubmates have bought the ceros. three of them so far have been stranded by a freehub failure. there's a thread on here somewhere about them. i'd steer well clear.
    That's a shame as we have the opposite experience. My son has a set of 30's and they've been all over Europe and the UK, used in all weathers and trained and raced on extensively and they've been great. 2 years old and on original bearings which are still running smoothly. The only issue we have had is where he was 'taken out' in a road race and it broke a couple of spokes. Can't blame the wheels for that.

    +1
    I have had my wheels for four years without any problems albeit in good weather. The thread alluded to is full of positive comments and they have revieved very well in cycling magazines.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    I've had the AR30s for 6 months and put about 3000km on them without a single problem. They are very light, very stiff and spin up very quickly. The only obvious negative is that they are narrow, but I don't feel any detrimental effect of this when riding on 25s.

    Some of the wheelbuilders will come on and tell you why they aren't great due to a number of technical reasons, but in all honesty I think they have found many satisfied homes and are fantastic for the price.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    dstev55 wrote:
    Some of the wheelbuilders will come on and tell you why they aren't great due to a number of technical reasons, but in all honesty

    Or maybe they won't... there has been for a while a specific thread for wheelbuilding, where technical issues are discussed, so they don't need to be diluted and repeated over and over everytime someone asks the good ole question.

    Interestingly it seems to be a little paradise free from advertisers chipping in to try and flog you this and that...
    left the forum March 2023
  • schlepcycling
    schlepcycling Posts: 1,614
    I had my AR30s for a couple of years and put about 6000 miles into them without any problems then one of the spoke holes failed on the rim and the spoke pulled through the rim. I'm going to replace them with some handbuilts from http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    My experience of the AR24s was that the wheels arrived promptly and were well packaged and well built. They were nice to ride and climbing was very good on them, as was braking on technical courses. The problem I had was that I found their handling to be woeful. I don't know if it was just me (I had hit the deck twice in 3 weeks due to unrelated incidents not long before getting the wheels so that couldn't have helped) but I just found it really hard to hold a decent line with them, even with Schwalbe Ones. However, my conclusion was that this was probably down to their very narrow rims (~13.5mm internal) and the effect that was having on road holding and tyre profile. Certainly, when I swapped to some slightly heavier wider rimmed wheels (Archetypes) all handling issues went away. It was like night and day. Hence, if folks find these wheels good then I can understand it and if those folks find these wheels good then they offer outstanding vfm. As an aside, I do suspect that the wheels might be at their best running 23s (I run 25s) but, for me, I won't be going back to experiment as I sold mine and don't regret it at all.
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    My experience of the AR24s was that the wheels arrived promptly and were well packaged and well built. They were nice to ride and climbing was very good on them, as was braking on technical courses. The problem I had was that I found their handling to be woeful. I don't know if it was just me (I had hit the deck twice in 3 weeks due to unrelated incidents not long before getting the wheels so that couldn't have helped) but I just found it really hard to hold a decent line with them, even with Schwalbe Ones. However, my conclusion was that this was probably down to their very narrow rims (~13.5mm internal) and the effect that was having on road holding and tyre profile. Certainly, when I swapped to some slightly heavier wider rimmed wheels (Archetypes) all handling issues went away. It was like night and day. Hence, if folks find these wheels good then I can understand it and if those folks find these wheels good then they offer outstanding vfm. As an aside, I do suspect that the wheels might be at their best running 23s (I run 25s) but, for me, I won't be going back to experiment as I sold mine and don't regret it at all.

    I have to say that I completely disagree with this. My bike handling skills are not great - thus any wobble makes me feel very nervous, however, I have about the same level of confidence in the challenges of normal road riding with my hand built Archetypes as I do with my CERO AR30. I have ridden over 2000 miles with both wheelsets - the AR30 have 25mm Continental GP4000s and archetypes 28 mm Schwalbe ones.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Some of the wheelbuilders will come on and tell you why they aren't great due to a number of technical reasons, but in all honesty

    Or maybe they won't... there has been for a while a specific thread for wheelbuilding, where technical issues are discussed, so they don't need to be diluted and repeated over and over everytime someone asks the good ole question.

    Interestingly it seems to be a little paradise free from advertisers chipping in to try and flog you this and that...

    And the next post following yours was of course about handbuilts. :D

    It seems it is the "in thing" that every time someone asks about wheels someone has to pipe up and suggest handbuilts!
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    letap73 wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    My experience of the AR24s was that the wheels arrived promptly and were well packaged and well built. They were nice to ride and climbing was very good on them, as was braking on technical courses. The problem I had was that I found their handling to be woeful. I don't know if it was just me (I had hit the deck twice in 3 weeks due to unrelated incidents not long before getting the wheels so that couldn't have helped) but I just found it really hard to hold a decent line with them, even with Schwalbe Ones. However, my conclusion was that this was probably down to their very narrow rims (~13.5mm internal) and the effect that was having on road holding and tyre profile. Certainly, when I swapped to some slightly heavier wider rimmed wheels (Archetypes) all handling issues went away. It was like night and day. Hence, if folks find these wheels good then I can understand it and if those folks find these wheels good then they offer outstanding vfm. As an aside, I do suspect that the wheels might be at their best running 23s (I run 25s) but, for me, I won't be going back to experiment as I sold mine and don't regret it at all.

    I have to say that I completely disagree with this. My bike handling skills are not great - thus any wobble makes me feel very nervous, however, I have about the same level of confidence in the challenges of normal road riding with my hand built Archetypes as I do with my CERO AR30. I have ridden over 2000 miles with both wheelsets - the AR30 have 25mm Continental GP4000s and archetypes 28 mm Schwalbe ones.

    Agree with that reply. I'm a fairly novice rider and don't feel any problems with the handling of AR30s. I've ridden very keenly round some of the local twisty descents with no concerns that I may come off (using Schwalbe One's funnily enough). They also don't feel any more stable or unstable than the DT Swiss R20 Dicuts on my other bike. Not sure what was causing the poor handling that Bobbinogs was experiencing.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    dstev55 wrote:
    Agree with that reply. I'm a fairly novice rider and don't feel any problems with the handling of AR30s. I've ridden very keenly round some of the local twisty descents with no concerns that I may come off (using Schwalbe One's funnily enough). They also don't feel any more stable or unstable than the DT Swiss R20 Dicuts on my other bike. Not sure what was causing the poor handling that Bobbinogs was experiencing.

    I guess it depends how one descends. Wider rims were introduced in motorbikes to allow to lean harder into corners and still have grip. Mountain bikers adopted wider rims to improve handling and finally they made their way to road equipment. The tyre profile is rounder and the transition between being vertical on the straight and leaning in a corner is more progressive than abrupt, which gives you confidence and as a result you brake later and get into corners faster.

    I have hit the wide part of hairpins at 40 Kmh with wide rims... it's a funny feeling as you begin to experience a bit of G, feeling ever so slightly light headed for a second or so.

    If you like to descend hard, you want wide rims and no so big tyres, to optimise the profile. Narrow rims with big tyres are awful and as the tyre wears, it squares and at that point you simply can't lean in a corner anymore without hitting the deck.

    13.5 internal and 25 external is not ideal, it gives you the same profile of an Archetype with a 32 mm tyre, which again is not ideal, but still better. My 20 mm internal rims work well with 25 and 28 mm tyres, if I was to fit 37 mm tyres I would get the same profile as a 13.5 with a 25, but with more surface, so still better handling
    left the forum March 2023
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    dstev55 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Some of the wheelbuilders will come on and tell you why they aren't great due to a number of technical reasons, but in all honesty

    Or maybe they won't... there has been for a while a specific thread for wheelbuilding, where technical issues are discussed, so they don't need to be diluted and repeated over and over everytime someone asks the good ole question.

    Interestingly it seems to be a little paradise free from advertisers chipping in to try and flog you this and that...

    And the next post following yours was of course about handbuilts. :D

    It seems it is the "in thing" that every time someone asks about wheels someone has to pipe up and suggest handbuilts!

    I don't recall suggesting handbuilts, just rims wider than 13.5mm. I think the Ceros are fairly to close to handbuilt in any case as they are made up of basic components (Chosen hubs, Kinlin rims and DT Swiss Competition/CXRay spokes) and the resulting build is very good and quite similar in tension to some Open Pro/Record/DT Swiss Comp wheels I have.
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ...
    If you like to descend hard, you want wide rims and no so big tyres, to optimise the profile. Narrow rims with big tyres are awful and as the tyre wears, it squares and at that point you simply can't lean in a corner anymore without hitting the deck...

    That was my problem, leaning into corners with the Ceros felt really sketchy and I could feel the front wheel losing its line. Hence, cornering was reduced to me staying very upright and dropping the speed accordingly. Once I changed the wheelset the difference was immediate and I could go back to leaning into corners and exiting the apex at a decent speed.
  • schlepcycling
    schlepcycling Posts: 1,614
    Bobbinogs wrote:

    I don't recall suggesting handbuilts

    I think that was me :oops: I gave my opinion on my AR30s and just mentioned as one of the rims was knackered that I was replacing them with handbuilts. That wasn't meant to be a 'handbuilts are better' comment just a fact that I've decided to get a pair of handbuilts.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    If you like to descend hard, you want wide rims and no so big tyres, to optimise the profile. Narrow rims with big tyres are awful and as the tyre wears, it squares and at that point you simply can't lean in a corner anymore without hitting the deck.

    Re-iterating the point I made before my bike handling skills are relatively poor, however, my commute involves a descent of 150m of vertical descent at 7% average - 12/13 % maximum - I can confidently descend down at circa 40 mph with no difficulties with the Cero wheelset with a well worn pair of 25mm Conti GP4000s. I am assuming you are talking about an Alpine style descent reaching speeds of circa 50+ mph when refering to descending hard?
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Some of the wheelbuilders will come on and tell you why they aren't great due to a number of technical reasons, but in all honesty

    Or maybe they won't... there has been for a while a specific thread for wheelbuilding, where technical issues are discussed, so they don't need to be diluted and repeated over and over everytime someone asks the good ole question.

    Interestingly it seems to be a little paradise free from advertisers chipping in to try and flog you this and that...

    And the next post following yours was of course about handbuilts. :D

    It seems it is the "in thing" that every time someone asks about wheels someone has to pipe up and suggest handbuilts!

    I don't recall suggesting handbuilts, just rims wider than 13.5mm. I think the Ceros are fairly to close to handbuilt in any case as they are made up of basic components (Chosen hubs, Kinlin rims and DT Swiss Competition/CXRay spokes) and the resulting build is very good and quite similar in tension to some Open Pro/Record/DT Swiss Comp wheels I have.

    Where did I state you did suggest handbuilts? :?:
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    letap73 wrote:
    If you like to descend hard, you want wide rims and no so big tyres, to optimise the profile. Narrow rims with big tyres are awful and as the tyre wears, it squares and at that point you simply can't lean in a corner anymore without hitting the deck.

    Re-iterating the point I made before my bike handling skills are relatively poor, however, my commute involves a descent of 150m of vertical descent at 7% average - 12/13 % maximum - I can confidently descend down at circa 40 mph with no difficulties with the Cero wheelset with a well worn pair of 25mm Conti GP4000s. I am assuming you are talking about an Alpine style descent reaching speeds of circa 50+ mph when refering to descending hard?

    I think it really depends on whether there are any bends or not.

    On a local twisty descent of mine I got down it about 250th out of 3600 on Strava on only the 2nd time I went down it, and my bike handling skills are shocking (think Thibaut Pinot at the TdF 2015) so my AR30s can't be that bad!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    letap73 wrote:
    If you like to descend hard, you want wide rims and no so big tyres, to optimise the profile. Narrow rims with big tyres are awful and as the tyre wears, it squares and at that point you simply can't lean in a corner anymore without hitting the deck.

    Re-iterating the point I made before my bike handling skills are relatively poor, however, my commute involves a descent of 150m of vertical descent at 7% average - 12/13 % maximum - I can confidently descend down at circa 40 mph with no difficulties with the Cero wheelset with a well worn pair of 25mm Conti GP4000s. I am assuming you are talking about an Alpine style descent reaching speeds of circa 50+ mph when refering to descending hard?

    Straight descents are fine, it's when you have to go down bend after bend that handling matters. There are climbs with 40 odd hairpins in 6-7 miles, handling does matter
    left the forum March 2023
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    letap73 wrote:
    If you like to descend hard, you want wide rims and no so big tyres, to optimise the profile. Narrow rims with big tyres are awful and as the tyre wears, it squares and at that point you simply can't lean in a corner anymore without hitting the deck.

    Re-iterating the point I made before my bike handling skills are relatively poor, however, my commute involves a descent of 150m of vertical descent at 7% average - 12/13 % maximum - I can confidently descend down at circa 40 mph with no difficulties with the Cero wheelset with a well worn pair of 25mm Conti GP4000s. I am assuming you are talking about an Alpine style descent reaching speeds of circa 50+ mph when refering to descending hard?

    Straight descents are fine, it's when you have to go down bend after bend that handling matters. There are climbs with 40 odd hairpins in 6-7 miles, handling does matter

    Unless you decide to come down the same way as you went up :P
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    The descent I refer to is not straight although neither is it the extreme you suggest so I take your point. Correct me if I am wrong but I assume there are no scenarios where there are 40 odd hairpins in 6-7 miles in the UK (Bealach Ba Na possibly)? Besides there is the new Cero model - the AR22 with a larger internal diameter which would suit the purpose of longer faster technical descents.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    letap73 wrote:
    The descent I refer to is not straight although neither is it the extreme you suggest so I take your point. Correct me if I am wrong but I assume there are no scenarios where there are 40 odd hairpins in 6-7 miles in the UK (Bealach Ba Na possibly)? Besides there is the new Cero model - the AR22 with a larger internal diameter which would suit the purpose of longer faster technical descents.

    No, but there are descents where decent handling makes the difference even in the UK
    left the forum March 2023
  • poptart242
    poptart242 Posts: 531
    AR24 here. I think they're great - light, nice enough buzz from the hub, no handling issues like the guys above. I'm a pretty confident handler when it comes to downhills, fast corners, or moving in a bunch too. 25mm Schwalbe Ones.

    On the flipside they're not the most comfortable wheels ever. And I've snapped two spokes in 4000 or so miles (not many, but more than zero).

    Overall? Bargain hoops.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Poptart242 wrote:

    On the flipside they're not the most comfortable wheels ever. And I've snapped two spokes in 4000 or so miles (not many, but more than zero).

    It is very many... maybe you should raise your expectations a bit. Spokes should not snap, period! After > 12 K miles if you snap one then it's kind of acceptable in a low spoke count wheel, but 2 in 4000 miles is pathetic
    left the forum March 2023
  • poptart242
    poptart242 Posts: 531
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Poptart242 wrote:

    On the flipside they're not the most comfortable wheels ever. And I've snapped two spokes in 4000 or so miles (not many, but more than zero).

    It is very many... maybe you should raise your expectations a bit. Spokes should not snap, period! After > 12 K miles if you snap one then it's kind of acceptable in a low spoke count wheel, but 2 in 4000 miles is pathetic

    I agree overall. However two points make me want to give them a chance:
    -I'm heavy
    -The first one was replaced by a spoke that was too short, with nowhere near enough tension. I won't be going back there for any work - luckily it was easier to take it to another shop who were a little horrified that it had been replaced in such a fashion. So I'm willing to let the second snap go down to shoddy repair work

    One is too many, but it can be a little bit of bad luck.
  • warrior4life
    warrior4life Posts: 925
    Cero wheels assembly from their twitter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z8et5tmM_U
  • CatmanScoop
    CatmanScoop Posts: 3
    Just about to pull the trigger on a set of the AR22's as I like the idea of going tubeless. Is there anything else out there which you guys could recommend at a similar price and weight?
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    CatmanScoop wrote:
    Just about to pull the trigger on a set of the AR22's as I like the idea of going tubeless. Is there anything else out there which you guys could recommend at a similar price and weight?

    Not exhaustive but you might want to read the following: http://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/ ... l-upgrades
  • warrior4life
    warrior4life Posts: 925
    I love my AR30's but as an all year round wheel set I'd look at Zondas, my AR30's feel rapid but I do have to strip and clean the freehub out if I've done lots of wet riding. If I had to have just one wheel set at that price I'd look at Mavic, Shimano, Fulcrum/Campag.
    As a best wheel set I'm happy with Cero.
  • CatmanScoop
    CatmanScoop Posts: 3
    apreading wrote:
    CatmanScoop wrote:
    Just about to pull the trigger on a set of the AR22's as I like the idea of going tubeless. Is there anything else out there which you guys could recommend at a similar price and weight?

    Not exhaustive but you might want to read the following: http://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/ ... l-upgrades

    Thanks for the link. I'll check it our on my lunch break.

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