Downhill Fears

RookieCyclist

Hello all
First time poster here
Really hope I can gain some good helpful advice. I've only been properly road biking since January this year and I'm still at the level of gaining confidence on the roads as well as getting to know my bike and how I handle it.
I really really struggle with downhills. I seem to be OK if I know the road swoops down and levels off. But as soon as I know there is a bend in the road I struggle to keep the front wheel steady.
I've been applying my brakes just for reassurance. However last night I took my hands off the brakes and just went for it.
I ended up almost going into a grass verge on the opposite side of the road, and God knows how I managed to stay upright and alive. All I got for my near miss was a puncture. And for that I'm grateful.
So are there any tips I can use to enable that I don't go into panic mode every time I see a downhill approaching.

Thanks

singleton

I would say don't rush yourself.
It's about building confidence and experience with your bike and the road conditions. On some days I will be more agressive than on others - because of the weather or the traffic conditions so you don't need to break your speed record every time you go out.

Build it up slowly and stay within your limits - giving yourself a scare as you did yesterday will not help you to get faster.

marcusjb

Going downhill is a skill like any other and requires you to build up confidence slowly. Just take it steady and relax into it (the worst thing for descending is being tense).

There are plenty of videos out there about how to distribute your weight and pushing on the outside pedal when cornering etc.

Where are you putting your hands? On longer and fast descents, you will have more power and control over brakes and steering if you are in the hooks of your handlebars (so your index and middle fingers can easily reach the brake levers and offer good power).

RookieCyclist

Thanks for the replies.
I tend to keep my hands on the hoods. And yes you are right in saying that it is a skill to learn over time.
I'll take a look on you tube & search for the posts on distribution of weight.
So would you say, that I ought to apply the brakes as I start my descend & then gradually ease off them to build up my confidence?

lostboysaint

As Marcus says the two key things to think about are pressure the OUTSIDE pedal (think skiing) and also get on the drops to get yourself in a position to steer and brake far more smoothly and powerfully.

Drop your shoulder into the turn you are entering, this promotes a smoother transition to the correct lean angle and look far more at the exit of the turn and where you want to be in a second or two. This avoids the target fixation problem that you currently have (looking for and at problems and, as a result, finding them!).

herzog

My first suggestion is to know your bike very well and give it a thorough once over before doing any decent descents. Living in Switzerland, my descending skills are always developing, but a major component of it is knowing that all is OK with the bike (stem/bars/brakes etc). Having confidence that the bike isn't going to disintegrate at high speed is key to a relaxed (and therefore much more enjoyable) descent.

Regarding technical skills, as mentioned above, there are a load of useful videos on youtube. However, get all of your braking done before the corner, and if you need to take a bit of speed off mid-corner, use the back brake very judiciously! Finally, having a map of the descent on your bike computer is very useful (as is learning how to read the road) as this will give you an indication of what's around the next corner.

marcusjb

RookieCyclist wrote:

Thanks for the replies.
I tend to keep my hands on the hoods. And yes you are right in saying that it is a skill to learn over time.
I'll take a look on you tube & search for the posts on distribution of weight.
So would you say, that I ought to apply the brakes as I start my descend & then gradually ease off them to build up my confidence?

Definitely try descending more in the drops. Maybe get used to the position on the flat to gain confidence in it? The hoods are fine for riding along on the flat, but do not offer much power or control of braking compared to being in the hooks.

With regards braking, less is more - try not to 'ease off' brakes as that suggests you are dragging them. Riding with the brakes dragging is not great for all sorts of reasons (and in big mountains, can get you into all sorts of trouble with heat build up!). Brake as you approach a corner to reach the speed where you can negotiate the corner safely (reading the road ahead is another skill we all learn over time), that braking should all be done smoothly and in a controlled manner, before then turning into the corner.

Key to it all really is being relaxed and not stressing over it. Easier said than done I realise!

Alex99

RookieCyclist wrote:

Hello all
First time poster here
Really hope I can gain some good helpful advice. I've only been properly road biking since January this year and I'm still at the level of gaining confidence on the roads as well as getting to know my bike and how I handle it.
I really really struggle with downhills. I seem to be OK if I know the road swoops down and levels off. But as soon as I know there is a bend in the road I struggle to keep the front wheel steady.
I've been applying my brakes just for reassurance. However last night I took my hands off the brakes and just went for it.
I ended up almost going into a grass verge on the opposite side of the road, and God knows how I managed to stay upright and alive. All I got for my near miss was a puncture. And for that I'm grateful.
So are there any tips I can use to enable that I don't go into panic mode every time I see a downhill approaching.

Thanks

The most important thing to do, is not hurt yourself by doing too much too soon. Build your experience and keep safe.

Particular bits of advice... as others have said, being in the drops helps, as does shifting your weight on the bike. So, some pressure on the outside pedal (which will be at the bottom as you go around the bend). Keep your eyes ahead looking where you want to go, but quickly checking back for holes in the road etc... Also, shifting your bum left or right on the saddle makes a big difference in how 'eager' the bike is to turn. Experiment with these things on a descent that you know, and even a low speed on the flat. You'll get a feel for what makes turns easier.

RookieCyclist

All excellent advice & thanks to those that have posted.
I guess, on my next ride I should choose a not so scary descent (that doesn't increase my speed too much) and keep practising shifting my weight and getting my hands onto the drops. Practise is key as they say.
Thanks all

CoalTheCat

I don't have much more experience than you, I was given some advice by an old fella. He said "slow down to speed up" .

apreading

I had/have the same problem. Definately practice gradually and in a known environment where you can initially rule out all the things that worry you and gradually introduce them.

Start by finding a straight hill in a quiet road with a good surface. do that lots.
Then find a hill with a curve in it that has visibility to see ahead but still a good surface (i.e. no potholes, change of surface or loose gravel on the curve)
Then build up to sharper bends and unsighted sections
And finally move to being less fussy about the quality of the surface - this is one of the hardest parts for me because around here lots of the hills have rough/uneven & resurfaced bits of road on the bends and often have loose stones, sand or gravel - I always worry about those in particular as I dont have the confidence of being able to brake and back out if I get scared...

keef66

Wot they all said. Check tyres, brakes, QR skewers frequently so you have confidence in the bike itself. Don't try to go faster than you're comfortable doing. Don't drag the brakes. Weight on outside pedal and look through the corner to where you want to go

RookieCyclist

apreading wrote:

I had/have the same problem. definitely practice gradually and in a known environment where you can initially rule out all the things that worry you and gradually introduce them.

Start by finding a straight hill in a quiet road with a good surface. do that lots.
Then find a hill with a curve in it that has visibility to see ahead but still a good surface (i.e. no potholes, change of surface or loose gravel on the curve)
Then build up to sharper bends and unsighted sections
And finally move to being less fussy about the quality of the surface - this is one of the hardest parts for me because around here lots of the hills have rough/uneven & resurfaced bits of road on the bends and often have loose stones, sand or gravel - I always worry about those in particular as I dont have the confidence of being able to brake and back out if I get scared...

I think this is what I need to do. Last night was definitely an 'unsighted' section in the bend.

Thanks again, appreciate all the comments.
I guess I'm trying to run before I walk. And getting familiar with routes will help in the long run. As well getting my hands on the drop. That's something I realise I've been avoiding. But becoming more apparent that it HELPS so stick with it.

lostboysaint

The "unsighted" thing is a bit of a red herring. Very often you may not be able to see the road but you'll be able to see the way a hedge or tree line goes and that's a very good indicator. It's about getting your head up and looking further down the road (or the environment around where you're heading) and being able to make decisions earlier.

Alex99

RookieCyclist wrote:

All excellent advice & thanks to those that have posted.
I guess, on my next ride I should choose a not so scary descent (that doesn't increase my speed too much) and keep practising shifting my weight and getting my hands onto the drops. Practise is key as they say.
Thanks all

Guess the other thing that might help, if you know an experienced rider, get them to take you out to work through some of these things. Make it outside of a regular group ride so you can be pressure free.

apreading

lostboysaint wrote:

The "unsighted" thing is a bit of a red herring. Very often you may not be able to see the road but you'll be able to see the way a hedge or tree line goes and that's a very good indicator. It's about getting your head up and looking further down the road (or the environment around where you're heading) and being able to make decisions earlier.

The unsighted thing was not just about being able to see the shape of the road ahead but more about being able to see if there are any obstructions or problems around the corner that will require quick and sudden reaction when you get there - a big pothole, debris in the road, loose surface, deer in the road (quite common round here) etc. I have much more confidence when I can see the surface and an unobstructed road.

rick_chasey

I was told a few things that hugely helped my descending. I'm pretty good at it now TBH.

So.



1) Always do it in the drops. Easier reach to the brakes, better brake lever leverage, lower centre of gravity, generally everything's better.

2) Look where you want to go, not where you don't. (i.e. round the corner, not at the hedgerow).

3) Brake BEFORE the corner and NOT DURING. This is the single biggest reason why people who are scared crash more - they get scared, brake when they're still turning, and down they go. This may mean you really slow down far too much before a corner initially. You'll get better with that once your experience builds.

4) Press really hard on the outside pedal as you turn round the corner. > no idea why this works (likely to do with body weight), but works a treat. You can really feel the bike carve underneath you.

5) stop thinking. Nothing you can do about potholes etc - chances are you will react instinctively if you're not worrying. If you are worrying, you'll brake when you shouldn't.

--

Ultimately you don't need to go down fast - you're not racing. So focus on braking at the right times (and not in the wrong), look where you're going to, and press that outside foot hard.

photonic69

Don't forget to breathe....It's amazing when you are nervous and a bit scared you actually hold your breath. Just take few deep breaths and relax. Ride with a small group and follow them down a hill. They'll show you the line and give you more confidence. Build up slowly. Relax and breathe. Believe in yourself. Believe in your bike. Believe in your brakes (if they have decent pads). Relax.

fenix

I'd echo the above and also say get to read about cycling. As a kid I read this dozens of times - it has some great advice.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Richards-Bicyc ... 0330267663

And when you're ready maybe follow a rider down a hill and see how they handle a hill with a bend in it.

RookieCyclist

Again, thanks to everyone who has shared some advice for me. It really is appreciated.

I was riding with a bunch of experienced guys last night who offered me advice along the way. But I will do as some have suggested and try and get a one-on-one lesson in descending.
I'll get out early this Sunday and do some practise runs and see if the advice I've been given so far rubs off

Also thanks for the book link, I'll certainly take a look at that too.

rick_chasey

Ah mate you don't need a lesson.

You just need to get on and do it. Don't worry about it. Honestly, it's not hard.

frisbee

Descending is all about being relaxed, as soon as you tense up it all starts going wrong.

Sit up nice and high to slow your speed, don't drag your brakes, focus on the road well in front of you and don't ride in the gutter worrying about cars behind you.

pilot_pete

As many have said already, confidence follows good technique. Regarding braking, have good brakes that really bite and scrub speed off when you apply them. If your brakes are crap you will never get the confidence. Be in the drops which gives more control and lowers your centre of gravity. Learn your braking point for bends which comes from practice and good judgement. Shift your bum right to the back of the saddle and straighten your arms as you brake hard; around 70% of your braking will be front wheel braking, 30% ish from the rear. The front end naturally gets more weighted and thus can handle the greater braking force. The rear is naturally being unweighted hence the shifting of your weight back over to add more weight to the rear wheel to prevent it locking.

Do all that in a straight line with the bike upright before the bend. If the road is clear use to he width of your lane to take a racing line - start as wide out as you can and then look for the apex. At the right speed lean the bike into the bend. Be confident here and get used to really leaning the bike over. Unless you hit gravel or diesel oil or a wet patch the bike won't slip from under you....trust it. Lean your top half into the bend with the bike - don't try to stay more upright than the bike. Putting your knee out into the apex can also help with the weight shift into the turn. Keep that c of g as low as possible and push down hard on your outside pedal (which should be at the bottom of its stroke). Keep the eyes looking at the apex and the bike will go where you look. As soon as you see you are going to hit the apex shift your gaze to the exit point (again using the available width of your lane to exit as wide as possible). Once again the bike will go where you look. As you start to bring the bike upright you can relax the weight off the outside pedal, start pedalling if you need to, or start setting up for the next bend as appropriate.

The above all works if you carry speed into the corner. If you are shying away and slowing too much the bike will not flow and you will end up turning in too much and having to readjust your line part way through the bend and generally it will be untidy.

If you can find a closed road circuit with some tight bends on it this is the ideal place to learn correct braking and cornering with safe runoff areas before getting more ambitious with steep downhill bends, crash barriers, walls, drops and everything else!


We've all got it wrong and had 'moments' during bends whilst descending. You can correct if you leave yourself a little margin and the main thing is not to panic when it starts to go wrong. I've had a rear puncture part way through a tightish right hand descending turn with the bike cranked over. Without panicking too much the only option is to stand the bike more upright. This took me to the outside of the road and there was a small bank into the grassy verge. I managed to use that to guide my rear wheel around the bend whilst judiciously applying front brake to start to scrub off speed. Thankfully I made it around the bend and slowed to a stop using only my front brake - the rear rim was in contact with the tarmac and didn't sound too great for the last 20 or so yards of the bend but I stayed upright which was the main thing. Panicking, braking hard (which is the instinctive thing to do) or merely just applying the back brake would have seen me sliding along the road surface.

So corrections. Too fast into the bend? Apply back brake only and gently to scrub off speed with the bike canted over. If you can stand it up a bit more all the better. If you apply front brake whilst in the bend it will tend to throw you more 'out' of the bend, similarly to standing the bike up. Too slow into the bend? You will probably have turned in too much and will need to readjust your line, probably by standing the bike back up and re-aiming for the apex (or a new adjusted apex). Seeing gravel etc part way through a bend? Don't panic, try to get the bike more upright, which will throw you out, so as long as you have left yourself a little wiggle room you should be able to make the bend, just on a wider line (unless you really were on the limit already!) And the rest is improvising whilst reacting to what happens, such as using a runoff area (if that is gravel or grass etc then you really do need to get the bike upright and brake gently)

It is very rewarding when you get the confid nice and can sweep through bends with ease pulling away from your mates who just don't have the bottle (or more likely not as good application of correct techniques).
Have fun.

PP

svetty

Above is a pretty decent summary of 'how to to it'. Must confess I've had a few heart-in-mouth moments on long alpine decents where I've overcooked it and drifted across white line when cars are coming up. Still, if this isn't happening occasionally you just aren't trying hard enough

herzog

Surprised nobody has mentioned counter-steering yet...

mamba80

the OP should ride around a car park or a closed cct and get to realise the amount of grip tires give in the dry and mechanics of counter steering.

Practising on the open road can be a recipe for disaster, as is xxxxing up & crossing the road into on coming traffic, usually results in death/serious injury, try apexing the corner much later, gives a better view around the corner, an exit line that will keep you the right side of the road and a faster exit on open roads.

pilot_pete

Herzog wrote:

Surprised nobody has mentioned counter-steering yet...

Steady on, just releasing the brakes for some of the descent is step one!

PP

rick_chasey

Pete speaketh the truth.

Rest comes naturally.

Fair big part of it is mental. If you look forward to it you'll do everything you should do more naturally.

igsta

I have the same problem, some amazing advice here. Half the problem is tensing up, easier said than done though letting go!

Pituophis

I think Pete has it pretty much covered there!
Tensing up does have a very negative effect though! I must have inadvertently picked up a few tips in my mtb days, as I love fast descents, but the only time I have almost come unstuck was when my front wheel had a very minor slip on a dusty bend. My reaction was to lock up my arms (perhaps fearing an imminent off) and the subsequent loss of "feel/control" was very frightening indeed, with an almost magnetic pull in toward the curb. Very close call! Put me right off for a few rides after. :oops:
Another thing from my mtb days, if you stare at an approaching pot hole or rock on the track, you will ride over it! As everyone else says, look where you want to go, not at where you are going.

St50vec

Practised some of what has been mentioned above this evening was going well until I met a milk tanker coming up the hill on single track road luckily the hedge was soft. Is it normal to have a feeling like your going to go over the bars when going down? I've shifted my weight right back