Tiagra 4600/4700 groupset mix

benrk
benrk Posts: 9
edited September 2017 in Workshop
Looking for some advice on mixing tiagra 4600/4700.

I have a tiagra 4600 groupset (croix der fer 20 2015) with a 10 speed 11-32 cassette (chainset 34/50).

i'm going touring in the mountains and would like an easier gear as I will be carrying panniers.

I figured this is the easiest/cheapest option and would like to double check compatibility:

- Buy 4700 rear mech (ebay)
- Buy 4700 rear shifter (ebay) (as cable ratios are different)
- Buy HG500 11-34 cassette.

I know it's a lot of effort/expensive for one extra gear but i really think I'll be thankful for it!

Would this setup work with the existing 4600 chainset (34/50) at the front?

Can you suggest any other easier cheaper options?

Thanks!!

Comments

  • gloomyandy
    gloomyandy Posts: 520
    You may need a new chain as well.

    Personally I would be very tempted to try the larger cassette with your existing setup (perhaps with a longer chain). You may be able to get away with it.

    You might also want to try asking this question over on the CTC (or whatever it is called these days) forum. There is a lot of experience of mixing mechs etc. over there!

    The following thread suggests that you may be able to use a 9 speed Shimano MTB rear mech with your existing 10 speed shifter.
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cycloc ... 58252.html
    If you go with an MTB rear mech you may even be able to use a cassette that goes up to a 36 cog!

    The existing chainset should be fine.

    Good luck!
  • ElectronShepherd
    ElectronShepherd Posts: 227
    The other possibility is to change the front - put a 4600 triple on the front and change the other shifter. The triple is 30/39/50, so you'd have an even lower bottom gear than with a 34 cassette and your current chainset.

    You *might* get away with the triple and the 34T cassette, but I suspect that the chain length would be an issue.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    gloomyandy wrote:
    You may need a new chain as well.

    Personally I would be very tempted to try the larger cassette with your existing setup (perhaps with a longer chain). You may be able to get away with it.

    The following thread suggests that you may be able to use a 9 speed Shimano MTB rear mech with your existing 10 speed shifter.
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cycloc ... 58252.html
    If you go with an MTB rear mech you may even be able to use a cassette that goes up to a 36 cog!

    The existing chainset should be fine.

    Good luck!
    Agree with above in pretty much all regards - a 9 spd MTB rear mech with existing shifter and 34 or 36 tooth cassette would work fine ( I've done this so know from real world experience) although the chain will need a few extra links.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • benrk
    benrk Posts: 9
    Great thanks for the replies!!

    Love the idea of a mtb mech and a 36 cassette,

    Would this 9 speed deore mech do the job?:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod40542

    with this 11-36 cassette?
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... prod124932

    and I wouldn't need to replace the shifter?

    Thanks!!!
  • gloomyandy
    gloomyandy Posts: 520
    I think that combination should work (but don't blame me if it doesn't! I use SRAM rather than Shimano so I'm not an expert on the various Shimano parts). The only slight downside is that the cable routing is slightly different (you may need a shorter cable loop at the rear) and that it does not have a barrel adjuster. But if your CdF is like mine (I have a 2016 model) it will have adjusters where the cables attach to the frame at the front, if not, you may need to fit an inline adjuster. Note that the M591 mech does have a barrel adjuster but it is only rated to a cog size of 34 not 36.

    Oh and you may find what I've done with my CdF based build of interest:
    http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=104701
    Basically I'm doing something similar to what you want to do but with SRAM rather than Shimano.
  • ravey1981
    ravey1981 Posts: 1,111
    I can verify that 9spd shimano rear mtb mechs work perfectly with 10spd shimano road shifters. Get a long cage mech and you can choose any cassette that suits.
  • benrk
    benrk Posts: 9
    I'm going to go for a triple chainset, just wanting to check the parts I need and compatibility with my Tiagra 4600 double groupset (11-32 cassete).

    Can I check the parts I need:

    - Tiagra 4603 triple chainset
    - Tiagra triple front mech
    - Tiagra triple front shifter

    Do I need a new bottom bracket?

    What's the standard crank length bikes come with? 170, 172.5 or 175? (My bike is a XL frame croix de fer)

    Would these parts work with my existing rear mech, cassette and rear shifter?

    Thanks for your help!
  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    benrk wrote:
    Do I need a new bottom bracket?
    No.
    benrk wrote:
    What's the standard crank length bikes come with? 170, 172.5 or 175? (My bike is a XL frame croix de fer)
    Measure your existing crank and get the new ones with the same length.
    benrk wrote:
    Would these parts work with my existing rear mech, cassette and rear shifter?
    Yes. The rear gears don't care what the front gears are like as long as they use the same chain size.
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    benrk wrote:
    What's the standard crank length bikes come with? 170, 172.5 or 175? (My bike is a XL frame croix de fer)

    It should be stamped on the inside - usually next to the pedal threads. Just get the same again if it works for you.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • benrk
    benrk Posts: 9
    Great thank you!!!!

    If i got the 4603 triple chainset and front mech, would this be compatible with a 4503 9 speed front shifter? (this is the only tiagra triple shifter on ebay right now)

    Presumably as it's the front shifter it doesn't matter that it's 9 speed and not 10 speed (i'm hoping!!)

    Thanks
  • benrk
    benrk Posts: 9
    Does anyone know if I can combine the 4603 triple chainset and front mech with a 4503 front triple shifter?

    Thanks!
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    I think so is as good as I can do.

    Generally a FD is a pretty simple thing and the gap between chainrings is the same (or at worst really close) so that shifter should move the beach the right amount.

    It's the later ones with the long arms which aren't compatible at all.

    It might be fiddly to set up but should be okay.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • Lastly1
    Lastly1 Posts: 3
    Hi guys!

    I have a road bike with Tiagra 4600 groupset. Somewhere around January the rear deraileur let me down, so I had to buy a new one. I bought the new Tiagra 4700 rear deraileur with a long cage. My cassette is tiagra 4600 11-30.

    Since then, there has been a constant clicking and crackling noise coming from the cassette. It works fine when in gears in both far ends, but the crackling and clicking starts somewhere in middle gears. Sometimes it also cracks and automatically shifts down.

    I followed countless videos on how to change the rear deraileur as I thought I did not replace the mech correctly (which is still in question). However, could this issue be due to incompatibility of the 4600 cassette and 4700 rear deraileur?

    Thanks for you time
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Lastly1 wrote:
    Hi guys!

    I have a road bike with Tiagra 4600 groupset. Somewhere around January the rear deraileur let me down, so I had to buy a new one. I bought the new Tiagra 4700 rear deraileur with a long cage. My cassette is tiagra 4600 11-30.

    Since then, there has been a constant clicking and crackling noise coming from the cassette. It works fine when in gears in both far ends, but the crackling and clicking starts somewhere in middle gears. Sometimes it also cracks and automatically shifts down.

    I followed countless videos on how to change the rear deraileur as I thought I did not replace the mech correctly (which is still in question). However, could this issue be due to incompatibility of the 4600 cassette and 4700 rear deraileur?

    Thanks for you time

    When they went from 4600 to 4700 they changed the cable pull ratios. So your 4600 shifter isn't compatible with the 4700 rear mech. You need to get hold of a 4600, 5600, 5700, 6600 or 6700 rear mech.
  • Lastly1
    Lastly1 Posts: 3
    keef66 wrote:
    Lastly1 wrote:
    Hi guys!

    I have a road bike with Tiagra 4600 groupset. Somewhere around January the rear deraileur let me down, so I had to buy a new one. I bought the new Tiagra 4700 rear deraileur with a long cage. My cassette is tiagra 4600 11-30.

    Since then, there has been a constant clicking and crackling noise coming from the cassette. It works fine when in gears in both far ends, but the crackling and clicking starts somewhere in middle gears. Sometimes it also cracks and automatically shifts down.

    I followed countless videos on how to change the rear deraileur as I thought I did not replace the mech correctly (which is still in question). However, could this issue be due to incompatibility of the 4600 cassette and 4700 rear deraileur?

    Thanks for you time

    When they went from 4600 to 4700 they changed the cable pull ratios. So your 4600 shifter isn't compatible with the 4700 rear mech. You need to get hold of a 4600, 5600, 5700, 6600 or 6700 rear mech.

    What about if I get 4700 shifters?
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    As long as both shifters and derailleurs match then that will be fine.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Lastly1 wrote:
    keef66 wrote:
    Lastly1 wrote:
    Hi guys!

    I have a road bike with Tiagra 4600 groupset. Somewhere around January the rear deraileur let me down, so I had to buy a new one. I bought the new Tiagra 4700 rear deraileur with a long cage. My cassette is tiagra 4600 11-30.

    Since then, there has been a constant clicking and crackling noise coming from the cassette. It works fine when in gears in both far ends, but the crackling and clicking starts somewhere in middle gears. Sometimes it also cracks and automatically shifts down.

    I followed countless videos on how to change the rear deraileur as I thought I did not replace the mech correctly (which is still in question). However, could this issue be due to incompatibility of the 4600 cassette and 4700 rear deraileur?

    Thanks for you time

    When they went from 4600 to 4700 they changed the cable pull ratios. So your 4600 shifter isn't compatible with the 4700 rear mech. You need to get hold of a 4600, 5600, 5700, 6600 or 6700 rear mech.

    What about if I get 4700 shifters?

    You could do that instead, but it will be a lot more expensive and you'll need the matching front mech. Your money, your choice!
  • Lastly1
    Lastly1 Posts: 3
    keef66 wrote:
    Lastly1 wrote:
    keef66 wrote:
    Lastly1 wrote:
    Hi guys!

    I have a road bike with Tiagra 4600 groupset. Somewhere around January the rear deraileur let me down, so I had to buy a new one. I bought the new Tiagra 4700 rear deraileur with a long cage. My cassette is tiagra 4600 11-30.

    Since then, there has been a constant clicking and crackling noise coming from the cassette. It works fine when in gears in both far ends, but the crackling and clicking starts somewhere in middle gears. Sometimes it also cracks and automatically shifts down.

    I followed countless videos on how to change the rear deraileur as I thought I did not replace the mech correctly (which is still in question). However, could this issue be due to incompatibility of the 4600 cassette and 4700 rear deraileur?

    Thanks for you time

    When they went from 4600 to 4700 they changed the cable pull ratios. So your 4600 shifter isn't compatible with the 4700 rear mech. You need to get hold of a 4600, 5600, 5700, 6600 or 6700 rear mech.

    What about if I get 4700 shifters?

    You could do that instead, but it will be a lot more expensive and you'll need the matching front mech. Your money, your choice!

    Thank you. Another related question: Will it be compatible if I change the Tiagra chainset for a 105? How is with mixing groupsets in general?
  • fallenagain
    fallenagain Posts: 25
    edited June 2016
    As long as the pull ratios are OK, you will tend to be too.

    My CdF (2012) has 5700 shifters and cranks, Ultegra 6700 FD, 9 speed XT non shadow RD, 10 speed 11-34 SLX cassette and an Ultegra chain (10 speed), though I have used XTR chains too.

    For the next generation, compatibility with MTB groups is lost, and you need to keep the pull ratios right as listed above.

    The other thing to bear in mind is that the cage length needs to be right. A short cage will only cope with a double, not a triple.
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    Yep, and a chainset is a chainset as long as the speeds match so you can use any one you want (and even then you can get away with a small difference).
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • alanf1968
    alanf1968 Posts: 1
    Having upgraded both my bikes from 4600 to 4700 Tiagra, the major difference is the pull on the rear mech, if you attempt to run the new mech on the old shifters, you will get the full range of years, however some will run noisey due to poor alignment and skip a cog each way up and down the cassette. The shifters are expensive, however the new shifts are more comfortable, your cables are tidy running under the bar tape and the shifting much improved.

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