Useless Local Bike Shops.

brianonyx

So I bought my Orbea Onyx from a well known bike shop in the Southend/Leigh vicinity in 2009. It's now my winter bike and in the meantime i've bought 3 or 4 other bikes from this popular place.

My daughter wants to use the bike for a sponsored ride from Bristol to Bordeaux so for the first time in its life I tried to lower the saddle. The carbon seat post was completely stuck and the saddle wouldn't move. It moved slightly having used loads of penetrating fluid and a long lever - but still wasn't going to go up and down.

I normally maintain my own bikes but I took it back to the local bike shop expecting pretty clued up service capability. They said they would have a go and I left it with them.

A call a couple of days later and they said they tried to wiggle it but couldn't so couldn't fix it. In fact they said they were short of space and could I pick it up that day and no they didn't know anyone who could fix it.

When I picked it up they told me this happens all the time and they don't try to fix them. (maybe a chance to sell more bikes?) This struck me as pretty terrible service and I was surprised they hadn't an arrangement with a local engineering shop for difficult problems.

Anyway, after a lot of googling and looking on here I bought a 27mm drill bit and took my trusty chisel along with a hacksaw blade and set to work. Two hours later and the seatpost was completely removed. It wasn't that difficult to do in the end.

Now, I am happy to try to support a local bike shop rather than use the internet as I was of the mistaken belief that when you needed them for a tricky problem they would help you out. But it appears not - very happy to talk to me about why I need the new Trek Emonda but not happy to provide a decent service.

I know there was a chance of damaging the frame. I know it took a lot of time - but I would have taken the risk and paid the labour.

Apologies for the rant, just a bit annoyed.

lesfirth

To go anywhere near your bike with a 27mm drill you have obviously acquired some "engineering" expertise at some time in your life. Skills like yours are absent from most bike shops.

ravey1981

A lot of bike shops have gone the way of most garages these days... thats is basically just parts fitters. That being said, if they had attempted to remove it by force and damaged the frame irreparably then they would be liable for that damage. I understand why some do not take on these jobs for just that reason. This bike shop in question does sound pretty poor though.....

cougie

To be fair how much would they charge for the job and if anything goes wrong they break your frame. It's not worth it to them.

dowtcha

As above, very little reward for a lot of risk.

brianonyx

Can't see any risk. I would have been quite happy to sign a disclaimer saying I understood there was a risk of the frame being damaged.

Certainly doesn't make me want to use a LBS for any reason anymore.

cycleclinic

I run a shop and i would not have taken this job on. I am far more than a parts fitter. The risk of damage to the frame is real. I have removed stuck seatpost before by a variety of methods but i would never to resort to using a drill bit on a customers frame. On my own fine well actually no there are better ways. The risk is real for the shop and having a go at this lbs to me is not on.

I also think people like the op with there attitude should probably try running a bike shop. There attitude to jobs like this will change rapidly. It is not just the risk but time too. The number of jobs i have taken on where i cant charge for the time i have actually spent is not funny. This could be one of those. If the frame had been taken to engineering shop costs would sprial. Hense the shop does not do that.

I have got seat posts out before with patience over a couple of weeks of soaking in plus gas and turning the frame while the seatpost is clamped in the vice. I have melted one out before. Caustic soda works too. Never made a profit on one of them. The point of running a shop is to make a profit.

Glad you got it out but removing stuck posts is not worth the time and effort really. Shops do it if they have the time and it possible without it taking to much time. You can moan about service all you like but if a shop feels like it cant charge for the time it takes to complete a job fully then they within there rights to refuse the job.

The shops that take such jobs on and spend time they dont end up charging for are not running a business.

Better to keep the post from seizing in the first place.

Bobbinogs

Yepp, agree with the above which is also a very good insight into the struggle that is running a business profitably. It should also be quite clearly stated that the seat post becoming stuck in the first place is no one's but the OP's fault. OK, so some LBS's may have tried to help, after getting disclaimers, etc., but I can understand why many wouldn't. As to drilling out a frame with a 27mm drillbit, IMO, that is only the kind of thing that someone not running a business would even entertain. Suck it up, move on.

sheffsimon

brianonyx wrote:

Can't see any risk. I would have been quite happy to sign a disclaimer saying I understood there was a risk of the frame being damaged.

Certainly doesn't make me want to use a LBS for any reason anymore.

"Anyway, after a lot of googling and looking on here I bought a 27mm drill bit and took my trusty chisel along with a hacksaw blade and set to work."

You can't see any risk?

The only person that builds and maintains my bikes is me, so I would have done what you did, maybe not with the drill bit, but I certainly wouldn't expect my local shop to do so.

proto

I'd be very interested to know how you used a 27mm drill bit to remove the seat post. Could you explain?

2 hours labour, something like £100.00+VAT. Would you have been happy to pay that?

homers_double

My guess would be to saw the old post off flush with the seat tube and sit the drill bit 90 degrees to the seat tube.

Start with a slow speed and take it steady.

Once you've got through the majority of the post then it'll peel apart fairly easily. An alloy seat post is free cutting so you don't get as much bite with the drill bit, it's more like chipping it away rather than producing piles of swarf.

I'm guessing someone will say the above is tosh but hey, if you're time served and have been engineering based for 21 years I'm happy to hear your opinion.

homers_double

proto wrote:

I'd be very interested to know how you used a 27mm drill bit to remove the seat post. Could you explain?

2 hours labour, something like £100.00+VAT. Would you have been happy to pay that?

And I agree with this bit too, running a business isn't easy and certainly not a hobby where you do stuff for free.

keef66

We use a particular garage because they have always been scrupulously fair and honest with us. They fixed a water leak on my son's diesel Fiesta, and only charged us what they'd quoted, despite it taking a lot longer to fix. They did say they wouldn't do it again though... (and I'm so glad we didn't try to do it ourselves!)

I can see why a bike shop wouldn't take on this kind of job; very time consuming / risk of frame damage. Far better for a leisurely DIY approach.

There is a bloke who specialises in removing stuck seatposts if you really cannot do it yourself. Search on here for stuck seatpost and you'll probably find him

homers_double

See now you're just biting. You buy that diameter drill with a ground shank and the flutes remain at 27mm.

As for holding it, When you have mates thats what they come in handy for.

homers_double

Now I look stupid but proto wrote this then deleted it...

How are you going to hold the frame whilst you drill into the remains of the seat post?

And how are you going to hold a 27mm dia drill? In a Black and Decker? Not many garages, bike shops or even engineering works have radial drilling machines big enough for that.

It's tosh.

proto

homers double wrote:

See now you're just biting. You buy that diameter drill with a ground shank and the flutes remain at 27mm.

As for holding it, When you have mates thats what they come in handy for.

I assume you are joking.

I really don't want to get into an argument with you but I'd never let you anywhere near any of my bikes. You're using a large drill bit, unsupported, in a hand tool, and drilling into a frame which your mates are holding for you? Really? It's tosh.

And 21 years isn't very long, I've got nearly double that. I work in a precision engineering workshop, sub contract machining, and without specific tooling and workholding I wouldn't attempt to drill out a seatpost.

BTW drill shanks are soft and don't need grinding, you can turn them in a lathe.

cycleclinic

The only way to do drill the post out is to fabricate a jig that hold the frame by the bb and allows it to be tilted and locked in place then line up perfectly with a pillar drill and drill at slow speed.

homers_double

I'm going to tap (see what I did there...) out now because I can't really be bothered.

It's a bike frame, not a rocket ship.

brianonyx

proto wrote:

homers double wrote:

See now you're just biting. You buy that diameter drill with a ground shank and the flutes remain at 27mm.

As for holding it, When you have mates thats what they come in handy for.

I assume you are joking.

I really don't want to get into an argument with you but I'd never let you anywhere near any of my bikes. You're using a large drill bit, unsupported, in a hand tool, and drilling into a frame which your mates are holding for you? Really? It's tosh.

And 21 years isn't very long, I've got nearly double that. I work in a precision engineering workshop, sub contract machining, and without specific tooling and workholding I wouldn't attempt to drill out a seatpost.

BTW drill shanks are soft and don't need grinding, you can turn them in a lathe.

I have a floor stand pillar drill in the garage and clamped the bike to a work bench and positioned the pillar drill above it. Having cut the seat post off just drilled the seat post out on the drills slowest gears and infact it mostly just splintered and flew hundreds of bits out. Then using a chisel to get the rest out was easy as there was an aluminium sleeve.

Understand why people say it is too much hassle for a LBS and why it's too much effort to have an arrangement with an engineering shop. From now on it's too much effort for me to buy new bikes from any LBS and it's the internet for me from now on. No tears from me if I see them close.