Bought bike off ebay, has following issues.

weastman

Have just bought a bike second hand off ebay, am a little unhappy with some aspects of the bike, the bike was described in the add as being in "very good condition" however it has the following issues:
A. The wheels have worn braking surfaces front and rear and indicating they need replacing immediately. I addition one of the wheels isnt even true.
B. Tyre a both well worn with front and rear having gashes in, again need replacing.
C. Looking at the frame and forks there are a few chips and scraps in addition to the tell tale bar tape and quick release scraps showing the bike (although potentially minor) has been in a crash. I know the bike is used but I feel these should have been highlighted in the advert.
D. the seatpost is incredibly worn and the carbon is damaged in areas.
E. Headset bearings are pretty screwed and definitely need replacing.

Am I being silly for being annoyed by these points and what steps can I take to resolving it? Any help would be much appreciated.

napoleond

You bought an unseen used bike off eBay....

fenix

Buyer beware.

andcp

weastman wrote:

Am I being silly for being annoyed by these points

No, I would be bl**dy annoyed at myself and the buyer.

weastman wrote:

what steps can I take to resolving it?

Little I suspect - your definition of 'very good condition' and someone else's are probably poles apart.

Move on - what can you do, and at what cost, to get the bike in 'good condition'?

weastman

Andcp wrote:

weastman wrote:

Am I being silly for being annoyed by these points

No, I would be bl**dy annoyed at myself and the buyer.

weastman wrote:

what steps can I take to resolving it?

Little I suspect - your definition of 'very good condition' and someone else's are probably poles apart.

Move on - what can you do, and at what cost, to get the bike in 'good condition'?

Thank you, the main issue is the wheels, I am unsure on whether to listen to the manufacturer advice of replacing wheels once past wear indicators or to take it with a pinch of salt. Have had very little experience of road bikes.

fenix

What were the photos like on the ad?

weastman

Fenix wrote:

What were the photos like on the ad?

In the photos the bike looked clean and well looked after, was on a park bike stand and all parts were shown. However close ups of the areas with dings and marks were not shown (with these not even mentioned). Also no pictures showing wear of tyres or rims. I know this is hard to show but no effort was made and nothing was mentioned.
I can accept it being a mistake but feel it very much changes the value of the bike I bought.

DeVlaeminck

Very good condition does depend on what the bike is I suppose. If it's a 2 year old Canyon then no your bike does not sound to be in very good condition, however if it's a 1970s classic then what you describe might be considered to be good condition given it's a 40 year old bike.

I would decide if you would still want it for the money you paid or close to that - if not then contact the seller and say you'd like a refund - they may agree as regular ebay sellers do not want poor feedback. if they refuse then decide your next action from there.

nochekmate

If you paid by PayPal file a case to say that the bike was not as described - you'll be covered.

There has been the odd occasion when I've sold a bike & the seller has not been 100% happy (I've bought & sold many in the last 5-6 years).

How much did you pay? I once sold a bike with Shimano 105 groupset & Mavic Aksium wheels & the buyer did not think it was worth the £200 that he paid (ridiculous in my view). Ultimately he was refunded without any problem - I'm a seller with 100% feedback & it's not worth a negative complaint for that sort of money.

Contact the seller/eBay/PayPal - you should not have to accept the situation.

weastman

The bike is a Scott Foil 2014 model with Di2, I paid £1500 which is pretty fair for what I thought I was getting, if I need to replace wheels tyres and headset bearings then I think it's not such a good deal.

MikeBrew

Did you collect or have it delivered ? If the latter then go through paypal or ebay, they are extremely buyer biased, and if you make a good argument of the facts, are likely to settle any claim in your favour. They will, however, ask that you try to settle the issue amicable with the seller before they intervene.
If you collected the bike, neither will get involved, as they will argue that you had fair chance to inspect the goods. For this reason don't pay upfront with paypal if you are collecting. Either do it via your phone at the sellers house after inspecting, or pay cash after inspecting the goods.
To be frank, for £1500 in today's bike market, you'd expect it to be pristine.

letap73

You took a great risk buying a used road bike when you have admittedly stated that you do not know much about road bikes. I am assuming that you had the bike delivered and that your only prior experience of the bike was the photos?

me-109

You sir,...... might be just the right owner my son's lightly used mountain bike is looking for.

furrag

- Put a straight edge against the rim. If you can see space between the straight edge and the rim (so the rim is concave), the surface is worn. It'll need replacing, but not necessarily right away.
- Tyres pick up gashes easily. Par for the course on our gravel roads
- Seatposts don't 'wear' per se. Is the lacquer peeling in places, or can you see exposed carbon fibres?
- Headset; are you sure it's not just an overtightened top cap? Why not take the headset cap and stem off and have a look? Either way, it's a cheap and simple job to replace bearings.

Bikes are designed to be ridden and raced. Having bought 3 new bikes and 6 second hand bikes, I've come to the conclusion used condition doesn't mean showroom condition, so I would expect chips, scuffs, and wear to any moving parts, and consumables to be worn. When selling, I prefer to offer larger discounts for collection, simply because of buyers with inflated and sometimes unreasonable expectations are a nightmare.

kleinstroker

It doesn't sound as if you were ripped off by the seller, what it sounds like is that you do not know enough to ask the right questions to prevent this happening.
Also, and this is one of personal gripes with buyers on eBay is that if you want to buy a used bike, be prepared for the fact that used means just that. Had a few buyers in my time expecting showroom condition , if you want new buy new!!.

Pedantic detail obsessed people should not really buy used items from eBay.

kleinstroker

Furrag wrote:

- Put a straight edge against the rim. If you can see space between the straight edge and the rim (so the rim is concave), the surface is worn. It'll need replacing, but not necessarily right away.
- Tyres pick up gashes easily. Par for the course on our gravel roads
- Seatposts don't 'wear' per se. Is the lacquer peeling in places, or can you see exposed carbon fibres?
- Headset; are you sure it's not just an overtightened top cap? Why not take the headset cap and stem off and have a look? Either way, it's a cheap and simple job to replace bearings.

Bikes are designed to be ridden and raced. Having bought 3 new bikes and 6 second hand bikes, I've come to the conclusion used condition doesn't mean showroom condition, so I would expect chips, scuffs, and wear to any moving parts, and consumables to be worn. When selling, I prefer to offer larger discounts for collection, simply because of buyers with inflated and sometimes unreasonable expectations are a nightmare.

The voice of reason!

johngti

ignore this - iPad went a bit weird!!!!

johngti

Scott foil 15, reviewed by road.cc in 2013 so I'd imagine the 2014 model, was £3999. You got it for much less than half price. For me, that's a bargain price but I'd expect to have to do some work to improve it, and I'd include a question mark over wheels in that. If, when it arrived, the wheels turned out to be in good nick, I'd have chalked it up as a win rather than a loss if they weren't.

Bobbinogs

ebay nearly always side with the buyer providing you have played the right game about complaining. As others have said, Paypal also take the same approach but I would start with ebay first and then Paypal if you don't get anywhere.

First up, you need to have a clear idea as to whether you would like a partial refund or a return. Then, send an ebay message to the seller along the lines that you would like, as in if you want your money back and the item returned to the seller then make this very clear and the reasons for doing so. Use words like "not fit for purpose" rather than "has a few issues". If the seller clearly outlined the wear/issues that you have then you could come up short and it will be your fault. If he didn't highlight specific issues then ebay will probably err on your side.

So, ball is in your court. Either look for some money back, suck it up and fix the issues or start the process of returning the bike to get a refund. Just make sure you do not enter into private correspondence.

You will need to start a dialogue first and then open an ebay dispute if you get nowhere within a certain timeframe (something like 2 weeks). Check the Paypal timeframe for disputes too as you may need to start one within, say 6 weeks, even if the ebay one is ongoing.

apreading

Is it this one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scott-foil-di ... 1904250163

If so then I would argue that his description (albeit short) and pictures are not consistent with the condition of the bike as you describe it. However, I dont know if you have exaggerated your description to emphasise the point - whether the scrapes are actually minor or more significant. The only thing I can see in the pics is that the saddle looks a bit marked.

I think we need a bit more info before we should even consider judging, but if you feel it is significantly not as described and want to reject it, you should be within your rights to do so - regardless of whether it is still a good buy or not. You might have to cover the return postage though.

MikeBrew

Always be wary of a freshly washed, still-wet bike in adverts. A bit of water on a sunny day, hides a multitude of sins and adds a £200 lustre. Go through PayPal the event of a claim, in my experience they are much easier to deal with and more efficient than Ebay on claims.
You may well even find that the buyer will simply offers a full refund if you contact him. To be fair, he does have a pretty good feedback record, and will probably to keen to protect it. (assuming the above link is for the bike in question)

stevie63

I'm a seller on ebay and if I sold something that was used and had the issues you describe there is no way that I would describe it as very good condition. An ebay item not as described case is the way forward. I would say that reasonably that you would be entitled to a couple of hundred pound back so that you can sort out the wheels and headset.

veronese68

In the bizarre world of Ebay listing faults, assuming they are minor, can actually push the price up as it gives the buyer confidence that the seller is honest. Pictures of a wet bike only taken from only one side plus the claim of good condition would actually make me more wary. But I'm an old cynic and it's easy to say with hindsight.
The most obvious advice we can give to any future buyers is only to buy a bike that you can collect in person or get someone to check for you.

onyourright

Nicks in the tyres are very rarely a problem. Besides, they can’t be avoided.

Worn brake surfaces on the rims do not necessarily indicate replacement. Visible wear happens after the very first ride.

No wheels are true. How much is the run-out?

Chips and minor paint damage are inevitable on a used bike.

The seatpost looks fine in the photos. It will be marked where it was inserted, but that can’t be avoided.

A shot headset is a problem, but if the seller is like 90% of road cyclists, they won’t have the first clue how to set the bearing preload or when to replace it. For that matter, you might not know this.

I wouldn’t pay £1500 for a used bike without knowing the full condition of every item. Since cyclists vary in mechanical ability but most are utter numpties, I wouldn’t expect the seller to give an accurate description even if they happened to be fully honest (which is itself rare).

You probably got a decent deal but you didn’t get a new bike.

darkhairedlord

I would have moved on as soon as I had seen it clamped around the top tube.

sloppyschleckonds

darkhairedlord wrote:

I would have moved on as soon as I had seen it clamped around the top tube.

I'd probably avoid buying from someone who lives in a pebbledashed house.

darkhairedlord

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

I would have moved on as soon as I had seen it clamped around the top tube.

I'd probably avoid buying from someone who lives in a pebbledashed house.

On the inside!

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Never done it myself, but consider going down the partial refund route to cover stuff like the headset and wheels, or go full refund and and send it back.

kleinstroker

I have had similar complaints from buyers when a wheel is less than a mm out of true, or when you didn't photograph every flaw and describe it. I now refuse to sell bikes by post, but are happy to let buyers visit and inspect everything for themselves. Even then you get the odd knobmoomin who puts the bike under a microscope when he gets home and tries to claim something or other two weeks later, I even got one dork who after buying the bike took it to his LBS who told him it needed servicing and charged him over a £100 which he then tried to claim back from me!

mfin

Bobbinogs wrote:

ebay nearly always side with the buyer providing you have played the right game about complaining. As others have said, Paypal also take the same approach but I would start with ebay first and then Paypal if you don't get anywhere.

First up, you need to have a clear idea as to whether you would like a partial refund or a return. Then, send an ebay message to the seller along the lines that you would like, as in if you want your money back and the item returned to the seller then make this very clear and the reasons for doing so. Use words like "not fit for purpose" rather than "has a few issues". If the seller clearly outlined the wear/issues that you have then you could come up short and it will be your fault. If he didn't highlight specific issues then ebay will probably err on your side.

So, ball is in your court. Either look for some money back, suck it up and fix the issues or start the process of returning the bike to get a refund. Just make sure you do not enter into private correspondence.

You will need to start a dialogue first and then open an ebay dispute if you get nowhere within a certain timeframe (something like 2 weeks). Check the Paypal timeframe for disputes too as you may need to start one within, say 6 weeks, even if the ebay one is ongoing.

This is pretty much bang on.

Remember even though "very good condition" is subjective, eBay try to make sure they define what they mean by it and what a seller is saying by selecting it.

It is also up to the seller to accurately describe the condition.

You need to define how you see the bike as not "very good condition" and what you feel the seller has omitted saying, and tell the seller and propose a way to resolve it (this is the quickest way of doing things). Then, if it doesn't seem to be going in a direction you are happy with start talking to eBay. (Do all the comms through eBay's messaging so they can see a record of everything that is said).

If you are being fair, the guy will have to accept it back or offer a mutually agreed partial refund.

(I've done this a couple of times and have seen it done by friends a dozen times).

onyourright

I sell things on eBay from time to time (not bikes). On principle, I don’t offer partial refunds. These have become an epidemic on eBay. My descriptions are always honest and accurate (I don’t use meaningless terms like “very good condition”), so if the buyer is fishing for a partial refund, it’s just a way to renegotiate the price after the fact – a common tactic.

I offer a full refund even when it’s not my fault or nothing at all. Today’s Amazon/Wiggle/etc. buyers are used to changing their minds and think they can do the same when buying from private individuals, so occasionally I do have to take an item back and give a full refund.

If you live in a populated area, you’re better off dealing face-to-face via the likes of Gumtree. (Especially for bikes, which cannot look like new unless they are new, unlike an iMac or a camera or something.) No-one who pays cash for something they’ve seen and touched comes back for a partial refund. And sellers can’t get away with lies. Plus there are no/fewer fees, so the seller makes more money or the buyer pays less or both.