Hill climbing with a broken heart

twiza

I'm sure lots of people ask for ideas to help them get up hills and the answer is usually get fitter, however its not quite so easy for me. 3 years ago I had major open heart surgery, following which I have been prescribed beta blockers and will remain on them for life. These lower my blood pressure and also place a limiter on my heart rate, as one cardiologist described it, its like I have to exercise with the brakes on full all the time.

For the most part this is fine, just means I'm a little slower than I would like to be for the same level of fitness. Where it becomes a problem is on steep hills of 15% plus. When my heart rate hits about 150bpm it won't go any higher, at this point, unless the hill shallows off a bit then my legs will simply stop turning and I have to stop. As this is always on particularly steep sections its then almost impossible to get going without walking to a flatter section.

Does anyone have any ideas for a get out of jail mechanical solution? Currently using a 50/34 & 11/30. Ideas are:-

A - use a triple chain set
B - use a small inner chain ring
C - use a mountain bike cassette
D - move to Norfolk

All of these solutions have issues but I'm looking for the best compromise. I should also point out that I'm ok cycling and pushing myself, generally I'm pretty fit and the surgery was due to a genetic condition, not poor lifestyle!

Many thanks

crankycrank

I vote for a triple. If you were to stay with a double and a wide cassette you may find yourself with too big of a jump between gears which could, on occasions, raise your heart rate. Same reason race cars with narrow power bands (same as a limited heartbeat) have more gears in a close ratio setup rather than fewer wide ratio gears with wide gaps which leave the engine struggling at times. So you are just a highly tuned race engine requiring proper gearing for the mundane public roads.

StillGoing

Go triple. I'd look at it as in gearing a motorcycle for the track. You want your gearing to max out on the longest part of the straight and anything left is wasted. For you, you want an easy gear for steep hills and presumably wouldn't be sustaining long sessions in your 50/11 combination even on flatter roads, so you could go to a smaller outer/inner ring combination. But would you miss that option for your 50/11? Better to go to a triple and get a really easy gear should you need it.

keezx

+3 , triple is the way to ga as you can fit a 24 tht. granny ring which will make it very easy to climb hills with the 30 cog.

dj58

Agree, swop to a triple and see if the 30T - 30T is low enough for you, is it a 16 speed transmission?

You will need a triple comp L.H. STI and F.D. as well. Might be worth considering upgrading to 10sp 4700 which gives you the option of 11-32T, 11-34T and 12-28T cassettes. SRAM do a 10 speed 12-32T cassette. If 30T - 28/32T is a low enough gear for you, you could go 11 speed 105/Ultegra and 11-28 or 11-32T.

gaffer_slow

you already have a 30 on the back, so buying a medium cage rear mech and a 32 cassette would make a little improvement, but no a huge amount. going to a triple is a bad idea. 34 front / 32 rear is lower than many triples offer.

If i was in your situation i would do the following.

buy a GS/medium cage rear mech (105 level will cost you ~£24)
buy a 36 tooth rear cassette.
use a "roadlink" - it is important to use the ROAD version - by wolf tooth components
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

it basically lengthens your hanger so that a larger cassette can be used.

Climbing steep ascents with a 36 would be bliss compared to a 30.

StillGoing

gaffer_slow wrote:

you already have a 30 on the back, so buying a medium cage rear mech and a 32 cassette would make a little improvement, but no a huge amount. going to a triple is a bad idea. 34 front / 32 rear is lower than many triples offer.

If i was in your situation i would do the following.

buy a GS/medium cage rear mech (105 level will cost you ~£24)
buy a 36 tooth rear cassette.
use a "roadlink" - it is important to use the ROAD version - by wolf tooth components
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

it basically lengthens your hanger so that a larger cassette can be used.

Climbing steep ascents with a 36 would be bliss compared to a 30.

Then surely a triple is better. 30 tooth inner ring with a 30 tooth rear or bigger will give an very easy gear for 15% plus hills. There's also the option of going to MTB ring sizes with a 26/36/48.

gaffer_slow

philthy3 wrote:

gaffer_slow wrote:

you already have a 30 on the back, so buying a medium cage rear mech and a 32 cassette would make a little improvement, but no a huge amount. going to a triple is a bad idea. 34 front / 32 rear is lower than many triples offer.

If i was in your situation i would do the following.

buy a GS/medium cage rear mech (105 level will cost you ~£24)
buy a 36 tooth rear cassette.
use a "roadlink" - it is important to use the ROAD version - by wolf tooth components
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

it basically lengthens your hanger so that a larger cassette can be used.

Climbing steep ascents with a 36 would be bliss compared to a 30.

Then surely a triple is better. 30 tooth inner ring with a 30 tooth rear or bigger will give an very easy gear for 15% plus hills. There's also the option of going to MTB ring sizes with a 26/36/48.

"very easy gear for 15% plus hills" is a relevant term depending on fitness and heart conditions.

Lets compare how low the gearing is,

in addition there is the fact that a triple up front would require new chainset, new front shifter and new front mech

you can make alteration to the following illustration by following http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=30,40,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27,30&UF=2135&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=MPH&GR2=DERS&KB2=34,50&RZ2=11,12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36&UF2=2135

This compares 30/40/50 front with a 30T cassette VS 50/34 with a 36-11 on the back
(in gear inches & mph at 90 cadence)

36 is significantly lower. and a triple is a pain.

StillGoing

That still doesn't answer what I wrote in that a triple with a 30 tooth or bigger is a better option as is using a MTB combination on the front. A 36/11 cassette is going to be a massive jump in ratios between the gears too. I'm not aware the OP has an issue with outlaying some funds to make his life easier.

keezx

gaffer_slow wrote:

Climbing steep ascents with a 36 would be bliss compared to a 30.

Then surely a triple is better. 30 tooth inner ring with a 30 tooth rear or bigger will give an very easy gear for 15% plus hills. There's also the option of going to MTB ring sizes with a 26/36/48.

"very easy gear for 15% plus hills" is a relevant term depending on fitness and heart conditions.

Lets compare how low the gearing is,

in addition there is the fact that a triple up front would require new chainset, new front shifter and new front mech

36 is significantly lower. and a triple is a pain.

A triple with a extra small granny ring is fine for people with limited perfomance who do not want a heavy circular saw on the rear wheel , while still using a normal rear derailleur and reasonable steps in the gearing.
Flat riding is fine on the middle ring and middle cogs.
Vanity drives some people to rediculous things like a 36 t steel cog.

nick-gti

slowbike

So a triple then ...

roger_merriman

twiza wrote:

I'm sure lots of people ask for ideas to help them get up hills and the answer is usually get fitter, however its not quite so easy for me. 3 years ago I had major open heart surgery, following which I have been prescribed beta blockers and will remain on them for life. These lower my blood pressure and also place a limiter on my heart rate, as one cardiologist described it, its like I have to exercise with the brakes on full all the time.

For the most part this is fine, just means I'm a little slower than I would like to be for the same level of fitness. Where it becomes a problem is on steep hills of 15% plus. When my heart rate hits about 150bpm it won't go any higher, at this point, unless the hill shallows off a bit then my legs will simply stop turning and I have to stop. As this is always on particularly steep sections its then almost impossible to get going without walking to a flatter section.

Does anyone have any ideas for a get out of jail mechanical solution? Currently using a 50/34 & 11/30. Ideas are:-

A - use a triple chain set
B - use a small inner chain ring
C - use a mountain bike cassette
D - move to Norfolk

All of these solutions have issues but I'm looking for the best compromise. I should also point out that I'm ok cycling and pushing myself, generally I'm pretty fit and the surgery was due to a genetic condition, not poor lifestyle!

Many thanks

how many more gears do you think would do it? a normal triple ie 30-39-50 will give you one more gear down, the MTB bike cassette ie 11-36 two gears down.

to go further you'd need to change the chainrings plus a MTB Cassette.

davebradswmb

I have been thinking about this problem myself. I am not quite in the same position as the OP, but I think that it will come at some point as I age. My heart rate current maxes out at 180, and then I am dead. I can't hope to maintain above 160 for any length of time, and this is only going to get worse. I currently use a 50/34 chainset with a 13/26 (9-speed) cassette, and to be honest with some good management of my pace I can get up everything I have tried. However I never use the smallest two cogs. The solution that would suit me best is a 42/28 double, the 42/13 isn't far off the 50/15 that is the highest gear I currently use, and I would gain some lower gears without losing the small increments. The OP could do the same with his current casette, no need for a new derailleur and get a 28/30 bottom gear which could help quite a lot, or even go to a 39/26 and gain even more since he has an 11 tooth cog.

Whenever I have looked at triples it seems to me that you only gain at most a couple of extra ratios since you end up with much more overlap, so the steps aren't that much smaller and don't seem worth the effort of changing.

slowbike

With triples - it really does depend on what you put on the back end ...

I run a triple (30-39-50 iirc - may be a 52 - can't remember) on my CX with two options ... a 32-11 or a 25-12
(when I can) I use the 25-11 with road tyres for commuting as I prefer the closer ratios of the cassette and don't have any silly climbing to do.
When going off for a pootle - usually with family - I put the wider tyres on with the 32-11 cassette as I'm far more likely to use the 30-32 combo to ride slowly up a hill - as I'm not riding hard I'm not bothered about the spacing.

The OP can try a 32-11 cassette - that should fit on fairly easily, but the gaps become bigger. A triple front will open up a whole load more options for him - but it's more expensive to try - if cost is an issue then getting a s/h triple shifter, mech and crank will be cheaper ...

keezx

Leaving the useless 11 and 12 cog out by building a custom cassette brings more useful cogs regardless of configuration.

gaffer_slow

i think people are making more of the gaps.

the big end of a 36T cassette goes 36 - 32 - 28 - 25
the big end of a 32T goes 32 - 28 - 25 - 22

as opposed to the annoyance of a triple that includes; numerous redundant gearing, much more shifting on the front needed, plus needing to buy a new shifter and new chainset (the two most expensive components of the drivechain)

drlodge

Using a 36T cassette would also require a much larger capacity rear derailleur, presumably a MTB type which may not be compatible with the OPs road shifter setup

slowbike

gaffer_slow wrote:

i think people are making more of the gaps.

IME gaps for the climbs are ok - its the middle of the cassette where it becomes noticable to the point of being a pita. I found that at my "normal pace" on flattish roads I'd either be pedaling too slowly or too fast - hence getting a narrower range cassette - that made it more comfortable for me.

gaffer_slow

drlodge wrote:

Using a 36T cassette would also require a much larger capacity rear derailleur, presumably a MTB type which may not be compatible with the OPs road shifter setup

did you read my original post? Clearly not, you saw "36T" and immediately discounted it - because you knew better.

If i was in your situation i would do the following.

buy a GS/medium cage rear mech (105 level will cost you ~£24)
buy a 36 tooth rear cassette.
use a "roadlink" - it is important to use the ROAD version - by wolf tooth components
http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

From the wolftooth website.

Compatibility:
10s Cassette Compatibility:
11-32: Not Required (GS medium cage rear derailleur works)
11-34: Single or Double Chainring
11-36: Single or Double Chainring
11-40: Single or Double Chainring (front rings can be no more than 14 teeth different e.g. 48-34)
11-42: Not Supported

11s Cassette Compatibility:
11-32: Not Required (GS medium cage rear derailleur works)

11-36: Single or Double Chainring

11-40: Single or Double Chainring (front rings can be no more than 14 teeth different e.g. 48-34)
11-42: Not Supported
10-42: Not Supported

so you could actually usually use a 11-40 cassette if you used 48-34 up front.

I wonder actually if a GS/medium cage deraileur is even needed, as it might extend to SS/short cage for enough

the roadlink works by extending you rear mech hanger



I'll not explain it again, twice within the first page of posts is probably enough for most people.

slowbike

Ah - that's handy - didn't know that roadlink existed ... could be handy for me with a close fitting mech on a 30 tooth cog

twiza

Many thanks for your responses, as I expected not a clear cut answer! It is very interesting looking at the comparison chart though.

Just clarify, cost isn't really a factor if I get a solution that works, although I did a bit a trawl for sites to buy triple group sets last night and came up with no results unless its put together piecemeal. In terms of fitness levels, I am pretty fit despite the condition, used to play rugby at a high level, however my heart function is approximately 1/3 of a normal person, and being 6'7" I have the best part of 100kg to carry up a hill!

I can see merit for both arguments and at the moment a bit torn. At the moment I'm swaying back towards the larger cassette option despite the jump between ratios, if only to see how I get on with the larger cog. Another factor to throw into the mix is that I'm considering changing my bike in the next year or so, so this is kind of a test drive for what I do then

gozzy

gaffer_slow wrote:

as opposed to the annoyance of a triple that includes; numerous redundant gearing, much more shifting on the front needed, plus needing to buy a new shifter and new chainset (the two most expensive components of the drivechain)

You're forgetting about the beauty of the triple though, that you can shift steadily up or down the gears, rather than the compact problem of needing to front and rear shift when you want to go lower/higher.

ElectronShepherd

I too don't get the "triples are awkward to use" thing. I have an Ultegra 6600 triple (30/39/52 on the front, 11-25 on the back), and don't see it as 30 gears, but three ranges of five or six. In the 30 front ring, I stay on the largest five rear cogs, in the middle ring I stay on the middle six rear cogs, and in the large ring, I stay on the smallest five rear cogs. That allows a very smooth progression of gearing from 1.25:1 all the way up to 4.7:1, with no large jumps. Compared to the rest of the bike (and, more importantly, the 70Kg person riding it) the extra weight of the third chainring is negligible, and I think the benefits of the extra cadence choices more than outweigh the additional gear changes needed for the front ring.

Anyway, back to the OP's actual question...

I think that nick-gti's picture-based suggestion of electric assistance is worth considering, either instead of or perhaps as well as a triple / large cassette. See http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... kit-42720/ for the source of nick's picture and some words to go with it.

Nick Payne

I'd go with a smaller chainring double, and possibly a larger cassette. The last bike I put together (for audax and sportive type road use) I used Middleburn RS7 cranks with 38/27 chainrings and an 11-32 11-speed cassette. The 38-11 is good for brief bursts of just over 50kph and the 27-32 gets me up 15% gradients at under 10kph without having to unduly stress myself.

markhewitt1978

twiza wrote:

Just clarify, cost isn't really a factor if I get a solution that works, although I did a bit a trawl for sites to buy triple group sets last night and came up with no results unless its put together piecemeal.

You have to remember that there is actually no such thing as a groupset as a single product, some retailers put them together as such but that's not they come out from Shimano.

The latest Tiagra comes with a 30.39.50 triple option, http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... prod137766 and they are very good chainsets too, I have the double version of it on one of my bikes.

Tiagra 4700 also has 11-32 and 11-34 cassettes (although you'll have to consult the tech docs to see which ones are compatible with triples) That could mean you have a low gear of 30-34 (0.88 ratio) which should allow you to take it relatively easy on all but the very steepest of hills. And that's with a standard modern road groupset no messing with MTB parts.

keezx

Nick Payne wrote:

I'd go with a smaller chainring double, and possibly a larger cassette. The last bike I put together (for audax and sportive type road use) I used Middleburn RS7 cranks with 38/27 chainrings and an 11-32 11-speed cassette. The 38-11 is good for brief bursts of just over 50kph and the 27-32 gets me up 15% gradients at under 10kph without having to unduly stress myself.

CUT

So you went EVER over 50 with THAT bike?

Nick Payne

Keezx wrote:

Nick Payne wrote:

I'd go with a smaller chainring double, and possibly a larger cassette. The last bike I put together (for audax and sportive type road use) I used Middleburn RS7 cranks with 38/27 chainrings and an 11-32 11-speed cassette. The 38-11 is good for brief bursts of just over 50kph and the 27-32 gets me up 15% gradients at under 10kph without having to unduly stress myself.

CUT

So you went EVER over 50 with THAT bike?

Certainly. I take it out on bunch training rides where I can do my wolf in sheep's clothing impersonation.

rolf_f

Without getting hung up on this fine detail, my message to the OP is that last summer I took 35kg of loaded touring bike up 4000 foot climbs. I could barely lift the bike but with a 26-34 bottom gear, there was never any danger of having to get off and push (which, with a 35kg bike weight is not a good outcome!). So, there is definitely a way to solve the problem even if it isn't what you'd ideally want (eg touring gears on a road bike).

keezx

Nick Payne wrote:

So you went EVER over 50 with THAT bike?

Certainly. I take it out on bunch training rides where I can do my wolf in sheep's clothing impersonation.[/quote]

Must be a custom steerer construction with those 4 "of spacers.....

gaffer_slow

Keezx wrote:

Must be a custom steerer construction with those 4 "of spacers.....

that can't be a carbon steerer? can it?