Zipp 303 or 404 for Everyday Wheels

ryan_w-2

Evening all,

Essentially I have a dilemma, I'm wanting to buy a new set of 'do it all' wheels for my 2015 Scott Addict Team.

I've always wanted a pair of Zipps and now I have the chance to purchase either a set of 303s or 404s (new Firecrest clinchers, 2016 v10 hubs, the good ones) for a very cheap price.

Now I'm not your average 65kg rider, I'm 6ft and 104kg (ex rugby player & weightlifter), so these wheels need to be able to handle some very strong legs and a fair bit of weight.

It's my understanding that the 303s will be the stiffer of the two in question, even though both are rated to 120kg rider weight.

I mainly ride pretty flat stuff, few laps of Richmond Park, occasionally heading to Box Hill. Nothing really over 100km.

I'm not a climber at all, even though I enjoy it, so the 65g different between the 2 doesn't bother me. I'm pretty decent on the flats, so the deeper 404 may be worth going for...

Anyway, please help! I'm looking to order this week.

Cheers all,

Ryan

slowmart

Given your narrative and context for use it seems the only aspects for determining an answer is cost or looks?

imposter2.0

This is going to go well.....

Bobbinogs

"Zipp 303 or 404 for Everyday Wheels", yepp best titled thread of the year so far. So much to like about that.

rick_chasey

Any wheel you buy should be able to handle day-to-day riding.

Certainly wouldn't be worth the money if they weren't!

There's not much on the roads you ride in Surrey that will really damage them; I ride them every weekend!

Though there is generally the rule that you shouldn't really ride what you can't afford to replace, but presuming you can, I can't see that everyday use will ruin them at all.

If you're worried about damaging them you could instead focus on your strengths, get a pair of more heavily built aero wheels. That might be a better way of soothing your own anxiety about breaking them on the bike. After all, that can ruin a ride!

bendertherobot

Disgusting thread title frankly. If you're not climbing often the 808 should be in there.

ryan_w-2

Is this a kids or adult forum?!

I apologise for working my arse off and being able to afford nice things.

I'm hardly a fat lad who's gone and spunked £12k on a S-Works and just wants the best.

Maybe my thread title should be 'do it all'. Is it wrong for me to want one pair of high end wheels on my bike?!

imposter2.0

Nobody cares how much money you have. People are trying to point out that the question is flawed. Just buy the ones you most like the look of.

288GTO

If you're doing mostly flats in non-windy areas the 404's would be the better choice. Personally I have the 2016 303's for all types of riding and love them.

turbotommy

Get the ones you best like the look of.

In your budget allow for replacing both hubs for something without a zipp decal on them. I know you are looking at 2016 models but if history has taught us anything...

ryan_w-2

I know Zipps history and their chocolate hubs, however, I'm hoping these new v10s will stand the test of time. Last years v9s have held up very well (no mass recalls), and the v10 is a beefed up version, so will hopefully be move in the right direction from Zipp.....

I'm aiming to cut and get below 100kg soon, but my frame has too much muscle on it to get much leaner. I know that 93kg is achievable, but I'd have to be around 6% body fat and that's no fun at all.

With that in mind, which of the two wheels will be the stiffer? Comfort isn't paramount since I rarely go over 100/150km, so a strong wheel that can handle a lot of power is essential.

Cheers guys.

0ced0

404 will be stiffer
however, if you are that muscular, a bespoke beefed up wheelset might be better

http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/pages/wheelbuilding

ugo.santalucia

404 rim will be stiffer in view of shorter spokes, but the 303 have 24 spoke at the rear instead of 20, so that make them stiffer, on balance, hard to say...

404 is more suited to your body type, but 24 spokes are a better option in case you have hub issues (basically there are loads of 24 H hubs on the market and not many 20 H). Beside the recall, some people don't get on with Zipp hubs's preload adjustment nut... I don't find anything wrong with it, but people reported problems.

Worth having a look at other options too, like Reynolds, unless the discount on the Zipp is such that rules out competitors

Either way, enjoy them!

DeVlaeminck

I know modern rim shapes are meant to be better in crosswinds but for an everyday wheel that'd still be a concern if I were looking to buy the 404s. If you aren't climbing much though you probably aren't doing a lot of high speed descending which is where a sudden cross wind can be quite unsettling - on a flat it'd have to be quite windy for it to be a concern. The plus side of the OPs weight is that it should be less of an issue than for a 60kg climber.

thegreatdivide

ugo.santalucia wrote:

404 rim will be stiffer in view of shorter spokes, but the 303 have 24 spoke at the rear instead of 20, so that make them stiffer, on balance, hard to say...

404 is more suited to your body type, but 24 spokes are a better option in case you have hub issues (basically there are loads of 24 H hubs on the market and not many 20 H). Beside the recall, some people don't get on with Zipp hubs's preload adjustment nut... I don't find anything wrong with it, but people reported problems.

Worth having a look at other options too, like Reynolds, unless the discount on the Zipp is such that rules out competitors

Either way, enjoy them!

Has someone hacked your account?

(There's no pre load adjustment on new Zipp hubs btw)

ugo.santalucia

thegreatdivide wrote:

Has someone hacked your account?

The OP seems to be aware of all the issues, so no point reiterating the obvious.

ryan_w-2

I'm limited to Zipps since the discount only applies to them.

I went into the shop and looked at the 303s today. The carbon weave is a thing on beauty, best I've seen from any of the top brands. I really think Zipp have turned a corner and hopefully the v10 hubs will stand the test of time.

Discussing with the chap in my LBS who rides 303s, he suggests either will be fine for my needs. He's ordered in a pair of 404s and I'll make the decision at the end of the week.

I'm leaning towards the 404s even though they're slightly heavier. I would rather a solid rim that can take all my power out the pedals climbing, than one potentially weaker that will leave doubt / worry in my mind when really wanting to stamp on the pedals.

ryan_w-2

FYI Ugo, the new 2016 404s are also 18/24

ugo.santalucia

Ryan_W wrote:

FYI Ugo, the new 2016 404s are also 18/24

In which case the 404 will be stiffer.
Stiffness is given by the number of spokes, the spoke length, the type of spokes, the flange width and a few other minor factors.
Those carbon rims don't flex, neither a 45 mm nor a 65, so it's only down to the factors above. The spoke length is important as a short spoke gives you a bigger bracing angle, which is the same as having a much wider hub flange

ryan_w-2

Appreciate the info mate.

I know both the 303s or 404s will be a much better suited wheel for me.

I'm currently running a pair of full carbon Syncros RL1.0 28mm clinchers on my Addict (1300g). Absolutely fantastic set of wheels and though as nails, but they're wasted with my lack of climbing ability, hence why I'm going to purchase a pair of sermi/aero wheels to favour my flat road abilities.

bernithebiker

I don't see why it's unreasonable to run 303's or 404's 'every day'? Am I missing something?

Either is perfectly versatile enough to be used all year round in all conditions.

For your use, OP, I would go for the 404's.

imposter2.0

It's not unreasonable to run them as everyday wheels. It's just unlikely to give him much - if anything - in terms of quantifiable benefit, that's all. The bike will look cool though...

ryan_w-2

When I say everyday, I guess I should have said 'do it all' wheels.

I don't ride everyday, but want a set of wheels to stay on my bike 24/7...

bernithebiker

Sounds to me like a big powerful rider that's good (i.e. fast) on the flats, where a deeper section wheel will help a bit in achieving and maintaining high speeds, so again, 404 it is.
The small extra weight is negligible when climbing for the OP.

imposter2.0

6ft and 16st - there are probably better aero gains to be had elsewhere which will benefit him more. But it's not my money...

ryan_w-2

I'm a large frame, 46" chest, 32" waist, 28" quads. I'm not fat, just muscly.

I detest running, so cycling is my cardio, and I bloody enjoy it.

bristolpete

Mate, I am not far off your dimensions and ran 303, 404 and 808 on my TT back back in 2009 through to 2012 and all very good. My instincts would be to say go for the 303 as the everyday wheel as brilliant at everything. 404 may be a few seconds faster, but marginal.

One other option, if you are a clyde on a bike (big and powerful) Derek at wheelsmith can overbuild some wheels at a fraction of the cost of 303 and you can have two sets, one of each for the same money ?

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/#!powertap/ ... a9c2f4a70b

or these

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/#!powertap/ ... d2945c4518

Just a thought.

Finally, if you have not got one, get a Specialized evade as that is a fast helmet to compliment fast wheels !

Pete.

Bobbinogs

Not sure I get all the advice on aero or practical tips on riding faster since the OP doesn't appear to want to actually achieve anything like a better TT time, just look good on a bike with wheels that can stand the power he puts out, although given that he rides on the flat the power delivery should be fairly stable. Hence, the OP should just buy the wheels he likes the look of or get some decent handbuilts that will also do the job for a lot less, but doing the job doesn't seem to be the objective here.

Nothing wrong with bling, we all like it to some degree. So it still comes back to buying the best looking set and enjoying them for what they are.

I rode in a group yesterday with a chap riding 60mm Zipps, he rode behind me most of the way and we only pottered about so there couldn't have been much of an advantage between his bike and mine (which was running H+ Son)...but he looked happy throughout and we enjoyed ourselves so his money was well spent :-)

JesseD

Didn't Zipp used to do a Clydesdale version, maybe they still do?

If I was the OP I would go for 404 FCC in Clydesdale version.

They would be strong and look the dogs knackers! 8)

Dinesh2988

How about 303 in the front and 404 in the rear ...

ryan_w-2

bristolpete wrote:

Mate, I am not far off your dimensions and ran 303, 404 and 808 on my TT back back in 2009 through to 2012 and all very good. My instincts would be to say go for the 303 as the everyday wheel as brilliant at everything. 404 may be a few seconds faster, but marginal.

One other option, if you are a clyde on a bike (big and powerful) Derek at wheelsmith can overbuild some wheels at a fraction of the cost of 303 and you can have two sets, one of each for the same money ?

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/#!powertap/ ... a9c2f4a70b

or these

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/#!powertap/ ... d2945c4518

Just a thought.

Finally, if you have not got one, get a Specialized evade as that is a fast helmet to compliment fast wheels !

Pete.

Pete, thanks for the info buddy. Some very nice wheels there and work out around the same figure as the Zipps with CK R45 hubs.

Definitely got me thinking, but as Bobbinogs stated, the Zipps excite me more. A set of wheels I've always lusted for and something I'm lucky enough to now be able to afford.