Resurrecting a 1991 Marin Palisades - 21spd MTB - Advice on parts?

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 11,774
edited April 2016 in Commuting chat
Morning all,

after nearly being led astray by Planet X, I am now considering getting this bike back up and running instead of selling it for a pittance.

I'm looking for a bike I can ride into town with the family, and lock up and not worry about too much.
My Carrera was sold, and the two other bikes I would use, are going to be sent to Mauritius very shortly - Highway One and Tri-Cross.

This is she:
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1481525/

The picture makes it look a lot better than it is in all fairness - it needs new tubes, chain and cassette, and the right hand shifter appears to have collapsed, in that the levers are hard against each other with no gap.
Oh and it has a reasonable amount of rust :-(

BUT, I see that a new chain and cassette can be had for £15 the pair, and new shifters for about £15 as well - the left hand one is fine, but would probably change the pair for aethsetics.

I would probably fit some narrower more road orientated tyres (A friend gave me a brand new pair of Scwalbe marathons recently that I had no idea what to do with) so that might work nicely.

Assuming my wheels, and chainset are fine, I imagine I could get this back up and running for about £30-£45.

On another note, I assume (potentially wrongly) that 8 or 9spd on the rear might be easier to maintain longterm - is there any reason this would cause me issues?
I'm thinking spacing is the same, as the spacing and chain just get narrower?
But wonder if my chainset will handle the narrower chain, and if so that would be a fairly chunky bit of outlay in comparison to the other bits.

IF this all works out nicely, then will be looking to get the frame stripped back and resprayed at some point too.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18

Comments

  • gbsahne001
    gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    It's likely that age of bike would have had a freewheel fitted rather than a hub and cassette, so if you want to go to 8 or 9, then you'd probably be better of changing the back wheel for a slightly more modern wheel.

    7 & 8 speed use the same chain and shifting spacing but 9speed is a narrower chain and different spacing.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    You can run an 8/9 speed hub with a 7 speed cassette, you just need a cassette spacer. Not sure you can put 8 speed or 9 speed on a 7 speed hub though. Worth checking if the wheel even takes a cassette, a lot of 7 speed stuff was screw on freewheel. 7 speed chains / cassettes are practically free and last forever, so can't see any maintenance benefit in going to 8 or 9.

    My Ridgeback (the black one, should be a picture in the link in my sig) has had slick tyres for the last 10 years or so. Bombs along on the flat although its hard work uphill. Also now has allen key wheel bolts instead of Q/R. I have given it V brakes instead of original cantilevers which involved new calipers and levers. RIght hand shifter still original, but left hand one got smashed in a crash a few years back so has been replaced. Still has a surprising amount of original stuff for 23 years old though - bars, stem, seatpost, front wheel, rear mech, bar grips...
  • mudcovered
    mudcovered Posts: 725
    A little bit older than my 95 palisades which was also 21 speed originally but from what I can remember the only significant changes to the frames in that timeframe were to tweak them slightly to allow a suspension fork. Will need a new wheel to go 8-9 speed regardless of freehub/freewheel as the freehub bodies are different sizes. Could be a cassette hub rather than a freewheel as 7speed was high end rather than cheap in 91. Its a steel frame so even if the wheel spacing is slightly different it won't be too much of a problem. The 9speed cog does run quite close to the frame on mine but its never caused a problem.

    I've done the following to a 95 palisades and used it as a winter bike for a few years:

    1. upgraded gearing to 3x9. Frame spacing was the same but needed new front/rear derailleur, chainrings and wheel.
    2. Converted canti brakes to v-brakes.

    Once I get the old cartridge bearing BB out I'll be running it again in the same spec as the steel marin's of that era are very nice rides. :)

    Mike
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,575
    Definitely far better to resurrect it as a hack than sell it for a pittance, agree with Mat about keeping it 7 speed. Old MTBs make great hacks. My old Marin isn't as old as yours, but it still rides well and is the only bike I don't worry about when I lock it up places.
  • mudcovered
    mudcovered Posts: 725
    I stuck with 7 speed for a long time. Only converted to 9 when I could no longer get a front chainring set of a reasonable quality as mine had a very wierd crankset which needed non-standard replacement rings (which I couldn't find anywhere :( )

    To be fair MTB 9speed kit is fairly abuse proof as well.
  • gbsahne001
    gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    mudcovered wrote:

    I've done the following to a 95 palisades and used it as a winter bike for a few years:

    1. upgraded gearing to 3x9. Frame spacing was the same but needed new front/rear derailleur, chainrings and wheel.
    2. Converted canti brakes to v-brakes.

    Once I get the old cartridge bearing BB out I'll be running it again in the same spec as the steel marin's of that era are very nice rides. :)

    Mike

    Similarly with the 95 Ridgeback....

    1. Upgraded gearing from 7 to 8 and now 9
    2. changed BB from tapered shaft to hollowtech
    3. new wheels front and back
    4. Cantis to V brake
    5. New front and rear mech
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,774
    Nice one, cheers guys, supremely helpful as always :-)

    After having a quick look at the poor old bike hung up in the garage, I can see that the brakes and shifters are one combined affair, but also that the right hand lever, although a bit squashed together, still seems to work, so might not even need replacing.

    Fair play on the 7spd angle, will keep it that way I think, and try and figure out if it's a freehub or a screw on freewheel - never heard of the latter, but imagine it will be pretty obvious?

    if it is the one I have not heard of, would I need a different tool to the usual freewheel tool and chainwhip to get it off\fit a new one?

    My bike mechanic skills have only come about in the last 4 years I would say, so historical knowledge is missing I am shamed to admit.
    Keen to learn though.

    I am guessing after all this time I should probably take a look at the wheels, bearings and grease within them, and probably check the headset and bottom bracket, although due to the age, and the fact it has a quill stem, is that also potentially radically different?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • Just convert it to singlespeed?
    If it has a cassette and freehub that is.
  • mudcovered
    mudcovered Posts: 725
    Quill stems are a little different to take apart and re-assemble (park-tools website has the info) but they usually take fairly standard off the shelf bearings so are easy to keep alive. You can still get headsets of that type anyway just make sure you get the right size.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    I have also replaced crankset I should have mentioned, Shimano Deore, billed as 8/9 speed I think and works fine.

    Old fashioned headsets and bottom brackets will involve learning new skills but nothing that tricky I don't think. You should get all the necessary tools in the typical cheapo bike tool kit.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,575
    gbsahne wrote:
    Uniquely with the 95 Ridgeback....

    ... turned down exchanging it for some carbon loveliness.
    FTFY :wink:
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,117
    Having done the whole "bring old bike up to date", my advice is:

    Cycle to Work scheme, new bike, donate old bike to charity

    Done. Cost me forkin' hundreds to update my bike, and whilst it's lovely, frankly it's not worth the money I spent.

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,774
    SecretSam wrote:
    Having done the whole "bring old bike up to date", my advice is:

    Cycle to Work scheme, new bike, donate old bike to charity

    Done. Cost me forkin' hundreds to update my bike, and whilst it's lovely, frankly it's not worth the money I spent.

    lol, but she's a beauty, I remember exactly how much she cost me (£366) and all the time I spent saving my pocket money, and selling another bike to get all of those funds together to go and buy her, it was a monumental day, as a horrible Apollo racer was taken there in the back of a Volco 740GL estate, and the Palisades replaced it for the return journey.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,117
    We'll just agree to differ!

    For info: the bikes being sent to Mauritius, is that some sort of charity thing? Do you have details?

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,774
    edited April 2016
    SecretSam wrote:
    We'll just agree to differ!

    For info: the bikes being sent to Mauritius, is that some sort of charity thing? Do you have details?

    Fair enough :D

    Ah no, nothing so selfless I am afraid.

    My mum hails from there, and is now moving back there, and has most of a house built.
    They used to live in Spain, so I could stick the bikes in the car and drive over, but that won't be an option anymore.
    And as any visits to them will need to be 3 weeks+ to make it worthwhile (Pricey flight costs) I decided I could not be without a bike for that period of time, as it would make me somewhat sad.

    Additionally my Dad has expressed an interest in riding again, and the Tri-Cross has a mens saddle on it, and I will fit flats to it so he can ride it out there - it's a fairly upright riding position, which as he is 70 is probably preferable, especially as he was not a keen cyclist in my living memory.

    So the two older bikes that can take wider tyres and have canti brakes are being shipped over in a container together with a loads of my parents belongings and a car.

    These have since been replaced with a Synapse and a Fuji, both from Evans.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    I had one of those, was my pride and joy at the time. In fact my Dad is still riding it!

    Rear hub on mine was a cassette. I overgreased the wheel bearings once; the grease got into the freehub and stuck the pawls, putting it into permanent freewheel mode. Had to dribble in a very light solvent (think it was Tipp-Ex thinners) to free it all up again :-)
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,774
    TGOTB wrote:
    I had one of those, was my pride and joy at the time. In fact my Dad is still riding it!

    Rear hub on mine was a cassette

    Yay, that bodes well!
    Just convert it to singlespeed?
    If it has a cassette and freehub that is.

    Well certainly consider that option, would reduce weight and make things simpler for sure.

    How would it work with spacing though, new rear wheel needed, and a chain tensioner I assume?

    Will probably stay stock for now, and then if it lives, and doesn't die in a blaze of glory, will consider other options, frame\fork\bars\stem repaint etc.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • I have a 1991 Marin Pine Mountain which I bought a few years ago to learn how bikes are put together - I took it all to bits, cleaned it all up, put it back together. It's currently in bits again - those old zolatone (?) frames don't hold on to decals so I keep meaning to get it powder coated in roughly the right colour and build it up slightly differently from the original spec. Hard to find a powder coater that's interested in the job, though.

    I bought some new 7-speed shifters as the old ones were knackered. With hindsight, I should just have bought new wheels and upgraded the groupset to a much newer one. It's not cost effective compared with buying a new MTB but a lot more satisfying for some reason.

    Try www.retrobike.co.uk for lots of tips on this stuff, and they have an active sales forum for buying and selling of retro bits. Some of the people there get absolutely obsessed with recreating the bikes they drooled after as teenagers.
    Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.
  • Oh yeah - I'm positive it was a freewheel rather than a cassette. I remember buying a new freewheel on eBay to replace the knackered one it had.
    Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.
  • imatfaal
    imatfaal Posts: 2,716
    I have a 1991 Marin Pine Mountain which I bought a few years ago to learn how bikes are put together - I took it all to bits, cleaned it all up, put it back together. It's currently in bits again - those old zolatone (?) frames don't hold on to decals so I keep meaning to get it powder coated in roughly the right colour and build it up slightly differently from the original spec. Hard to find a powder coater that's interested in the job, though.

    I bought some new 7-speed shifters as the old ones were knackered. With hindsight, I should just have bought new wheels and upgraded the groupset to a much newer one. It's not cost effective compared with buying a new MTB but a lot more satisfying for some reason.

    Try http://www.retrobike.co.uk for lots of tips on this stuff, and they have an active sales forum for buying and selling of retro bits. Some of the people there get absolutely obsessed with recreating the bikes they drooled after as teenagers.

    Re powder coating - there is a guy who advertises via a sale on ebay at what I seem to recall were pretty reasonable prices. Alternatively - one of the posters here suggested spray.bike and I gave it a try; it is by no means as tough as powder coating and can be easily scratched (not quite thumbnail - but anything tougher). But at 7.5 quid a tin and amazingly easy to use might be worth a bash to tart up a fading frame
  • Great tip - thanks. Rule 5 in Brighton is quite close to me and stocks it - will pop in next time I'm going past.
    Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.
  • In fact, I've got an old road bike frame which I "fixed" but which has very shabby blue paint - I might get two tins ...
    Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.
  • imatfaal
    imatfaal Posts: 2,716
    Great tip - thanks. Rule 5 in Brighton is quite close to me and stocks it - will pop in next time I'm going past.


    I got three good coats on a hybrid frame with - it seems - a good deal left over in the can. I used Bomber which I loved the colour of and remembered from my youth - unfortunately I soon realised that it is exactly the same as Castelli Drive Blue which obviously I also like and have quite a bit of kit in. First ride with Bomber Blue bike and Drive Blue Jacket I got two comments - both complimentary; but it has made me feel a little too self-conscious

    Close up to show finish and colour - but mainly cos I haven't got one of the whole bike
    26539802535_1c910ed203_b.jpg
  • gbsahne001
    gbsahne001 Posts: 1,973
    Veronese68 wrote:
    gbsahne wrote:
    Uniquely with the 95 Ridgeback....

    ... turned down exchanging it for some carbon loveliness.
    FTFY :wink:

    I have just discovered that when my wife said "I'll by you this piece of carbon loveliness" what she really meant was, I'll use your credit card to buy it. So I feel even more justified in turning it down now, especially in light of the requirement for cash, given "our" plans and expenditure for the loft conversion and new car....