"Kilo to Go" down?

ugo.santalucia

RallyBiker wrote:

Just had an email from ukcycling that the Perth Pursuit has cancelled through lack of entries. Sportive bubble burst???

Too many of them and too much of the same stuff. Problem with serial organisers is that they give you the same product over and over... you are in Cornwall or the Peak District it makes no difference. Events organised by locals have a bit more feel, participation and they are a bit more unique. Courses are watered down so that times can be standardised and costs kept low... I remember someone telling me the Cornwall Tor was a monster, then I looked at the KTG website and it did seem a 6 hours sportive... clearly not the same thing as the previous ride

bompington

RallyBiker wrote:

Just had an email from ukcycling that the Perth Pursuit has cancelled through lack of entries. Sportive bubble burst???

My goodness, that's my local roads: it passes within about 4 miles of my house, the first few miles are all around the roads I used to use on my commute to Perth, and I don't think there's any of it I haven't ridden at some point.

I wasn't even aware of this event until it cropped up in the thread, which definitely illustrates something about the oversupply at the moment. No hint of cancellation on the event site, btw.

I suppose that seeing an event that is practically just my old commuting route does give me more understanding for the "anti-sportive" posters here - altogether now, "I could ride those roads any time!"

bompington

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Too many of them and too much of the same stuff. Problem with serial organisers is that they give you the same product over and over... you are in Cornwall or the Peak District it makes no difference.

Agree. The whole point of a sportive is that it should feel like a special event - that's a very subjective thing that will depend on a lot of factors, but one thing's for sure, if they're ten a penny (look at UKCE's website - they've got more than one a week) then it's a massive buzz killer.

I'll stick with my one a year - for the last couple of years the 3 Pistes: it's local-ish, hard (for me), spectacular scenery, and has a USP: the 2 highest public roads in the UK plus one that's hardly any lower. It even has the masochistic appeal of the final climb that you don't get to descend - what's not to like?

And when I get bored of that, there are plenty of others that would be worth it. Or maybe grow a beard and do the Snow Roads...

marcusjb

Snow Roads 300 is not running as an event currently.

But plenty of other opportunities to compare beards at www.aukweb.net

DeVlaeminck

Too many events and no one place where interested riders can look at the calendar - or no one place I know of. Something like the Fred makes a worthwhile focal point of your cycling Spring - something to aim for - especially for those who don't fancy racing for reasons of safety, cost, age, etc.

Surely, police permitting, there is sufficient demand to fill maybe 10 equivalent events over the course of a year, 2000 plus riders each and a recognition that a bike ride should not cost upwards of £50 ! Perhaps in time a number of "classics"will cement their reputation in the way one or two have done and smaller low budget events of maybe a couple of hundred riders can fit in around them.

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Too many events and no one place where interested riders can look at the calendar - or no one place I know of. Something like the Fred makes a worthwhile focal point of your cycling Spring - something to aim for - especially for those who don't fancy racing for reasons of safety, cost, age, etc. .

The Fred is the perfect sportive. It's hard, it's scenic, it's a route that makes total sense and allows you to see the all lakes but one, it covers all the iconic passes in the lakes and local cycling clubs put an effort and create a fuss to make it into a special event.

gray700

Did anyone go to the creditors meeting on May 11th In Newcastle under Lyme and can report back what was said? I couldn't justify attending for the sake of £35 but i would like to know what happened and what was said. There was supposed to have been a full disclosure of the companies trading history. I heard from another sportive organiser that they had overstretched themselves in terms of lending and one of their creditors finally pulled the plug. How much lending is required to run a sportive company though really? The timing is a bit suspicious as well just before the sportive season starts and when they will have taken a lot of money in pre entries already. If there was ever a good time to "go bust" as a sportive organiser then mid april is probably the time.

paul2718

I have a clear recollection of 'Kilo to Go' being taken over (bought out?) at some point in the last couple of years. Which may imply somebody thought there might be money in it and found out there wasn't.

I'm also pretty sure that they used to organise some or all of the Wiggle events. So the Flat Out in the Fens I rode a couple of years ago was a Wiggle event. At the same time Wiggle were branding UKCE events.

The market will clearly shake out and settle down. It will be interesting to see how the 'Gran Fondo' in the Scottish Borders from the ToC people goes. If it costs £70 for closed roads and a bit of a production then it's less easy to justify £35 for some signage, especially if you don't intend to stop often. Closed roads are a real value that a serious organiser can bring.

Paul

AndyK2479

I did the Etape Du Dales last weekend, it felt like a 'epic' ride, I felt a real sense of achievement just getting around, brilliant organisation and a 'local' feel to the whole event. I usually did a couple of KTG sportives during the year, Cheshire Cat and Flatout and they began to feel just a little too 'commercialised' for me, not the same kind of passion or enthusiasm shown by the organisers/staff.

ugo.santalucia

AndyK2479 wrote:

I did the Etape Du Dales last weekend, it felt like a 'epic' ride, I felt a real sense of achievement just getting around, brilliant organisation and a 'local' feel to the whole event. I usually did a couple of KTG sportives during the year, Cheshire Cat and Flatout and they began to feel just a little too 'commercialised' for me, not the same kind of passion or enthusiasm shown by the organisers/staff.

DId the EDD last year, in epic winds... totally agree with you. Try the Fred next year, it's even better!

ugo.santalucia

Another event ruined by commercial organisers. I did the Tour of the Cotswolds back in 2009, when it was a pretty tough event that started in Witney and went all the way to Cheltenham and up Cleeve hill (which is a 10/10 in Simon Warren's book)... now it's a 75 miles watered down, mamil friendly ride that starts from Shipston and anyone can do in 5 hours

http://www.velosportives.co.uk/tour-of- ... 4591493473

StillGoing

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I would like the scene to go back to where it was 10 years ago... few events, mostly ran by clubs for charity... less profiteering at all levels, from timing technology to photo shoots

Yeah I'd agree with that. So much of the entry fee to events was wasted on equipment hire and PR rather than going to good causes. Of course, the organisers have to meet their overheads, but the overheads just keep getting bigger and bigger. Unless you have a big corporate company that is prepared to run events at a loss as some form of self publicity, I think the numbers will decline too. Some things are essential such as signage and first aid, but I'd like to think that anybody contemplating riding an endurance event would know how to replace an inner tube/repair a puncture, fix a broken chain or limp home with a temporary bodge so why a broom wagon? Why a photographer driving the course? Why those inflatable arches and umpteen banners? Why the chip timing equipment? Sad for the people behind KTG but I think it was inevitable.

slowbike

philthy3 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I would like the scene to go back to where it was 10 years ago... few events, mostly ran by clubs for charity... less profiteering at all levels, from timing technology to photo shoots

Yeah I'd agree with that. So much of the entry fee to events was wasted on equipment hire and PR rather than going to good causes. Of course, the organisers have to meet their overheads, but the overheads just keep getting bigger and bigger. Unless you have a big corporate company that is prepared to run events at a loss as some form of self publicity, I think the numbers will decline too. Some things are essential such as signage and first aid, but I'd like to think that anybody contemplating riding an endurance event would know how to replace an inner tube/repair a puncture, fix a broken chain or limp home with a temporary bodge so why a broom wagon? Why a photographer driving the course? Why those inflatable arches and umpteen banners? Why the chip timing equipment? Sad for the people behind KTG but I think it was inevitable.

Well - otherwise, why would your average punter go and do it?
If they wanted to go and ride x miles without support they don't need to pay anyone - just plot a route and off they go ...
Then - when it all goes pearshaped, they have to get themselves sorted - like the bloke I passed yesterday (he was ok - I checked) - tyre split and knackered - he'd arranged a lift so was ok - but in an arranged sportive that's what a broom wagon is for.
Photographers - they seem to make their own money though selling their wares - don't know if the event has to buy them - might be a nominal amount I guess.
Inflatable arches? Well - the pros use them - so why not ! actually - they're quite cheap if you're doing loads of events - cost per event is quite minimal. Same with the banners - ok it all adds up - but if you want to create an "event" then it's part of the atmosphere - otherwise it's a glorified club ride.
Chip timing equipment? Well - one thing it does is means the organisers can see who is left out on the course - there's a bit of duty of care there - so knowing how many are on the road helps you decide when you can pack up - there's always a few stragglers or abandonments who don't call it in - bit like those on club rides who fall off the back, don't call it (except on the hills where that's a given) and nobody notices until they reach the cafe.

Inevitable? Yes - market saturation I think - there will be a volume of riders who like sportives - but there will be those who just give up - other commitments or just bored with it (or not being very "good") - and others will progress onto better things - some will just resent paying £xx for an organised ride when they could ride it for nothing ..

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

Inflatable arches? Well - the pros use them - so why not ! actually - they're quite cheap if you're doing loads of events - cost per event is quite minimal. Same with the banners - ok it all adds up - but if you want to create an "event" then it's part of the atmosphere - otherwise it's a glorified club ride.

3 years ago I did the Etape Cymru... closed roads, inflatable arches, the all shabadan.. a decent enough course in rural Wales, a couple of climbs to look forward to... yet, totally pointless event... with zero atmosphere and a "race village" deserted, with only vendors and very few if any rider at all.

You need more than just money to create an event... you need to involve the locals... they do it very well at the FWC in the lakes and they do it to an extent at the Eroica Britannia with the Festival attached to the ride. Most continental sportives rely on this model, here in the UK there is zero support from the local community, which is often hostile to the event itself.

If the initiative comes from a local club and it is for charity, there is a much greater chance of turning the event into something a bit special, with or without inflatable arches

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Inflatable arches? Well - the pros use them - so why not ! actually - they're quite cheap if you're doing loads of events - cost per event is quite minimal. Same with the banners - ok it all adds up - but if you want to create an "event" then it's part of the atmosphere - otherwise it's a glorified club ride.

3 years ago I did the Etape Cymru... closed roads, inflatable arches, the all shabadan.. a decent enough course in rural Wales, a couple of climbs to look forward to... yet, totally pointless event... with zero atmosphere and a "race village" deserted, with only vendors and very few if any rider at all.

You need more than just money to create an event... you need to involve the locals... they do it very well at the FWC in the lakes and they do it to an extent at the Eroica Britannia with the Festival attached to the ride. Most continental sportives rely on this model, here in the UK there is zero support from the local community, which is often hostile to the event itself.

If the initiative comes from a local club and it is for charity, there is a much greater chance of turning the event into something a bit special, with or without inflatable arches

I agree - as I said - it's PART of the atmosphere - it isn't the atmosphere ... I did one of the NF ones last year - we went at a reasonable pace and there were plenty of people finishing as we did - but everything/everyone seemed to have packed up and gone ...
Compare that to the only european sportive I've done - TdFlanders - now that's atmosphere ... but then it was the day before the Pro's do it - so totally different event (although they still used inflatable arches! )

The support from the local community does help - the problem is that those that aren't worried about a cycling event aren't visable, but those that are bothered are frequently very apparent - to the point of being dangerous on the road. Perhaps it's because we're too insular now - there's not much community spirit in the places that tend to run sportives ...

DeVlaeminck

I did a couple of KTG sportives and thought they were well organised but it's hard to generate a grand fondo style atmosphere with restrictions like having to set off in small groups, playing down the competitive element by not having results in time order, limits on numbers and then locals turning signage round and sending you the wrong way.

I don't know what's gone wrong with their business but I'm pretty certain that cutting chip timing and mechanical support would not go down well if they were still charging modern sportive prices. Ugo is right involving the locals would help make rides seem like more of an event - and longer term that might help with things like relaxing limits on numbers, closing roads etc. I doubt I'll ever see a uk sportive in the hills with 5-6k riders which is a shame because cycling is a great participation sport and hits the demographic that really need to keep active.