Spokes just catching rear dérailleur

gimpl

I've just bought new wheels, Mavic Open Pro rims with Shimano hubs. They're on an 11 speed Ultegra Di2 set up and the bike hasn't been dropped or crashed so I'm certain the hanger is still straight.

Using the search function I've found the advice to adjust the limit screw which I have done however when tightened far enough the chain jumps from first to second gear and the limit screw is as tight as it will go so no further adjustment possible (presumably this may not be needed again though so not important).

Any advice as to what to do next please. Re-index? Anything else?

Many thanks and apologies if this is a noob question but I'm trying to learn.

Rightarmbad

Hanger it is, align it, retune gears, problem solved.

keef66

If you have to tighten the limit screw so far it stops it from staying in 1 st gear, that suggests to me that the hanger isn't straight.

You may not have crashed or dropped it, but some trivial knock may have occurred or it could easily have been slightly out from new.

I bought a hanger alignment tool and was amazed how far out both mine were!

Bobbinogs

Yepp, agree with the above. Certainly as a good starter for ten. You could always try buying/fitting a new hanger if that is easier. A spare hanger is always useful for touring as they can be the hardest thing to find a replacement before when off on holiday, etc. Won't cost much more than £20.

Mad_Malx

Surely L limit screw needs to unscrewed, not tightened, to reach 1st. Or am I misreading this?

Mad_Malx

Just looking at topic title - do you have a problem hitting the spokes too?

Bobbinogs

Mad_Malx wrote:

Surely L limit screw needs to unscrewed, not tightened, to reach 1st. Or am I misreading this?

I read it that the OP had the RD catching the spokes so was using the L stop to move the RD away. Hence, the L stop would be tightened until the RD was clear of the spokes...but this has then meant that the chain is slipping off the biggest cog. Hence, sounds like an alignment issue rather than indexing.

See this guide, section 3.

slowbike

Simplest way for hanger re-alignment may be to go into an LBS and let them do it - shouldn't cost much and shouldn't need to be done often (only when it gets knocked!) - cheaper than buying a tool and doing it yourself ...

thegreatdivide

Slowbike wrote:

Simplest way for hanger re-alignment may be to go into an LBS and let them do it - shouldn't cost much and shouldn't need to be done often (only when it gets knocked!) - cheaper than buying a tool and doing it yourself ...

This.

fudgey

I recently had this on a new bike, from the off in first gear the mech would hit the spokes.
I re indexed the gears several times until it just goes into first gear and stays in it, made it better but on steep hills it would still clip slightly.
So a new mech hanger was fitted, only very slight clipping after that under heavy load.
'Adjusted' the mech hangar and it seems to be ok now, but its still Very close.
A different set of wheels and there is 10mm of space between the mech and the spokes.

gimpl

Thanks for all the replies.

Bobbinogs summary is spot on.

Can't say I have ever knocked or dropped the bike but I suppose you can never be sure. Speaking to a more knowledgeable friend about it yesterday he suggested that the mech should never be that close so may well have happened before I even picked up the bike and previous set up meant I got away with it. Will be popping into LBS hopefully this week for a check up.

drlodge

Fudgey wrote:

I recently had this on a new bike, from the off in first gear the mech would hit the spokes.
I re indexed the gears several times until it just goes into first gear and stays in it, made it better but on steep hills it would still clip slightly.
So a new mech hanger was fitted, only very slight clipping after that under heavy load.
'Adjusted' the mech hangar and it seems to be ok now, but its still Very close.
A different set of wheels and there is 10mm of space between the mech and the spokes.

I echo this experience. I had spoke pinging on the Massive Attack with the same carbon wheels I'd used on the Rourke. Very little clearance between spokes and rear derailleur, had to wind in the limit screw on the RD a tad so that it didn't ping when under load. The annoying thing is, there's clearance when off the bike, but this vanishes when sat on it.

svetty

thegreatdivide wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Simplest way for hanger re-alignment may be to go into an LBS and let them do it - shouldn't cost much and shouldn't need to be done often (only when it gets knocked!) - cheaper than buying a tool and doing it yourself ...

This.

Very much not this

A basic hangar alignment tool is only £20 or so and will repay this many times over the years. I'm constantly surprised by how often when doing routine maintance I find the hangar has moved out of alignment - presumably due to minor knocks I've not noticed.

fudgey

Im always in the camp of if you pay someone else to do it, you will never learn.
So i DIY as much as possible, not just bike stuff, pretty much everything!

slowbike

Svetty wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Simplest way for hanger re-alignment may be to go into an LBS and let them do it - shouldn't cost much and shouldn't need to be done often (only when it gets knocked!) - cheaper than buying a tool and doing it yourself ...

This.

Very much not this

A basic hangar alignment tool is only £20 or so and will repay this many times over the years. I'm constantly surprised by how often when doing routine maintance I find the hangar has moved out of alignment - presumably due to minor knocks I've not noticed.

It's not just the hanger tool - it's understanding how to use it correctly....

Whilst I'm usually of the "do it myself" camp - I've stayed away from hanger alignments - and despite a number of bikes (don't count) - the number of times the hanger has had to be re-aligned is once ... and that was on my better halfs bike ...
£20 not spent on a tool - instead I took the (then new) bike back into the shop where we'd bought it - told them what happened (she fell off) and they replaced the hanger (charged) and fitted/aligned it FOC.

keef66

Bike tools don't come much simpler than a hanger alignment tool.

Unscrew rear mech and screw the tool in it's place.

Heave* on tool till the pointer thing is the same distance from the rear rim all round.

Unscrew tool and reattach rear mech.

Fiddle with barrel adjuster to fine tune the indexing. Marvel at your mechanical prowess.

*Actually pull / push gently. With a tool of that length** a mech hanger is surprisingly easy to bend.

** Oo-er missus!

drlodge

I bought such a tool for not too much, have used it a few times, most valuable. I can spend as long as I want to carefully make sure the hanger is 100% straight. I doubt any LBS would be as diligent as me.

MikeBrew

If you didn't have this issue with the last set of wheels that you ran in this frame, then it suggests that it's possibly even a problem with the new wheels themselves. This could be as simple as the way the rear wheel is sitting in the drop outs, or could be down to the dish of the wheel.
First off make sure that you have the wheel aligned and seated in the dropouts properly.

gimpl

Quick update:

Just picked up bike from LBS. It was a combination of things; hanger was slightly loose :oops: . Must admit, on my every so often round of nut and bolt checking and tightening these ones aren't on my checklist - they are now. Hangar was ever so slightly bent but not really enough to make much of a difference. So he has sorted it all out and re-indexed for the new wheels. Previous pair and these will have some differences apparently. Cost - £12.50.

I won't get a chance to ride it until tomorrow evening now so hoping it goes well.

Bobbinogs

Excellent, a thread where everyone was right and the OP got sorted. Not often that happens.

gimpl

Bobbinogs wrote:

Excellent, a thread where everyone was right and the OP got sorted. Not often that happens.

Have we just entered the Twilight Zone :shock:

gimpl

Further update:

Now had a chance to ride and all fine under normal load however when (deliberately) hard out of the saddle efforts in 28t still just catches. Really quite annoying as I had specifically bought these 32h Open Pro rims to stop that from happening (on old wheels, Giant PSL-1).

Any further ideas please?

TIA

fudgey

Other than adjusting the limit screw so it will just change into first and stay there, and if necessary tweaking the hangar then there is only really the option of changing wheels.

gimpl

Fudgey wrote:

Other than adjusting the limit screw so it will just change into first and stay there, and if necessary tweaking the hangar then there is only really the option of changing wheels.

But the wheels are brand new

drlodge

If it just catches when out of the saddle, you could just live with it.

photonic69

Take it to a good bike shop that does wheel building and get them to check the 'dish' of the wheel. They might be able to tweak it for you to gain a bit of clearance. I know my Turbo wheel I use has the rim edge about 7-8 mm offset compared to my road wheel. It was free so I don't care.

gimpl

Thought I'd post a quick update:

It's taken a while for me to get back on this bike - work, weather and trying to recover from the U13 rugby tour didn't help

Took it back to the LBS who built the wheels for me, they have a good reputation locally so wanted to give them an opportunity to get it sorted. He checked the rear hangar again to make sure it was spot on but this time he also removed two links from the chain as he said it was way too long and causing the jockey wheels to hang too low where they were more likely to catch.

Went out this morning and gave it a good old beasting up a local hill and all fine - happy boy.