Garmin 520 or 810

jon33

apreading wrote:

520 does NOT do turn by turn. So you can follow the map on screen but you have to look for it and understand what it is telling you - at lower magnification, you cant always tell which turn you want at complex junctions, at high magnification you cant see far ahead. Yes, it will beep if you go off course but the course plotting isnt 100% accurate because the maps worked out on the various programs on the web arent 100% accurate and the routes cut corners - so you get numerous false alerts if you have that turned on - some routes are worse than others.

If you actually want to follow a route on a regular basis and for the unit to truly be useful at this then get the 800/810/edge touring or the 1000.

If you just want to be able to see maps in a basic way then the 520 is OK but its not ideal for navigation.

Thanks for that reply, I literally just had the zoomed out map on the 800 with the purple (?) line over laying the road that I needed to follow, that was more than enough for me. Sounds like the 520 will do the job!

jmrr

apreading wrote:

520 does NOT do turn by turn. So you can follow the map on screen but you have to look for it and understand what it is telling you - at lower magnification, you cant always tell which turn you want at complex junctions, at high magnification you cant see far ahead. Yes, it will beep if you go off course but the course plotting isnt 100% accurate because the maps worked out on the various programs on the web arent 100% accurate and the routes cut corners - so you get numerous false alerts if you have that turned on - some routes are worse than others.

If you actually want to follow a route on a regular basis and for the unit to truly be useful at this then get the 800/810/edge touring or the 1000.

If you just want to be able to see maps in a basic way then the 520 is OK but its not ideal for navigation.

520 does do TBT for pre created route. It gives a beep and shows an arrow when to turn.

apreading

No it doesn't do them properly:

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.ph ... on-the-520

There are TBT instructions on the 520 if you enable them. They are generated from analyzing the shape of the path that the course takes rather than by using any map data. This is similar to way other Edge devices work if they have no routable maps available.

The web based user manual can be accessed online http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhe...EED568646.html

PDF version from here http://static.garmin.com/pumac/Edge_520_OM_EN.pdf

bendertherobot

It's not proper but it's quite fair to give them the description imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plmr3zSi6CY

apreading

Yes, but at a complex juntion they dont help. Turn right and head south dont help if there are two right turns from the juntion. and a juntion where your turning is just a kink in the road, a right fork for example, they may show nothing.

They dont recognise the juntions or the roads. Turn right into B3134 is so much more useful - you wouldnt accept this dumb turning by reconising an angle more than 45 degrees and give very little information type TBT in a car, you would think it a joke.

bendertherobot

apreading wrote:

Yes, but at a complex juntion they dont help. Turn right and head south dont help if there are two right turns from the juntion. and a juntion where your turning is just a kink in the road, a right fork for example, they may show nothing.

They dont recognise the juntions or the roads. Turn right into B3134 is so much more useful - you wouldnt accept this dumb turning by reconising an angle more than 45 degrees and give very little information type TBT in a car, you would think it a joke.

True. But even in those cases you need to be able to identify the road that is the B3134 or Jones Road etc. If the junction is complex and signage poor your turn by turn is not better. Of course, if you have local knowledge, you don't really need it.

I see the 520 nav as a nice extra to have and it's something that I think will appeal to those who fancy the out in the sticks course plotting generally where complexity isn't a massive issue. The maps are detailed and getting back to your course fairly straightforward if you can read a map.

Nowhere near as good as a 810 clearly.

apreading

The other difference, which is a biggie for some, is that the 800/810/edge touring have a resistive touch screen. Unlike the 520 which uses buttons and is not so nice for scrolling around a map and unlike the 1000 which uses a capacitive screen that doesnt work with gloves on (unless they are special gloves).

Personally, I bought a second 800 for less than £150 when I got my son an upgrade from his 200 at christmas - at that price they havent added anything since then that I would be bothered about personally and the battery life is great too. My 800 is now a bit dodgy since a collision with a car and I have another 800 to replace that too.

bendertherobot

Absolutely. That's a big preference issue mind. The 520 has too many buttons but I prefer it to resistive touch with is a bit old tech. It would be better if the 520 could lose some and take a leaf out of the Wahoo Elemnt's customisation process in this modern day and age.

zak3737

VERY tempted by the Wahoo ELEMNT myself.......
Never had a Garmin before now, and tbh, their screen size puts me off, as I do wear glasses to read, so a quick glance down is perhaps going to be problematic to see what I want.
The Wahoo on the other hand.......

Plus- some of the reports of software issues and bugginess of Garmins .......
The Wahoo may have some issues too, being so 'new', but they do seem to be far more proactive in resolving/perfecting.

I dont really need GPS 'Guidance' as such, just a Map to refer to now & again, so turn by turn isnt an issue for me, and the Customisation/Zoomability, & READABILITY of the ELEMNT look fantastic to use.

bendertherobot

I keep trying to blag a Wahoo to test (I will send it back afterwards) but no joy yet.

zak3737

Have you seen the (very) indepth review on DC Rainmaker ?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/wahoo-elemnt-gps-bike-computer-in-depth-review.html

bendertherobot

Zak3737 wrote:

Have you seen the (very) indepth review on DC Rainmaker ?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/wahoo-elemnt-gps-bike-computer-in-depth-review.html

Yep. If I do a review it won't be quite like that.......

There are things I don't like, the screen isn't all that colourful, for example (not that the 520 is much more so). But there are elemnt's (sic) that are better like the app integration. It looks like a good package. Question being is it worth £100 more to be different?

markhewitt1978

I've had a Garmin 510, 810 and 520 and now Wahoo ELEMNT. In terms of the clarity of the screen the Wahoo beats them all, in the case of the 510 & 810 by a very large margin. I like the ability to zoom in too while I'm riding if I just want the big important numbers.

bendertherobot

Good to hear. You don't get to see the screen all that well there and it looks a bit bland. But the important stuff (numbers) are very clear indeed. How did you find creating your menus?

markhewitt1978

bendertherobot wrote:

Good to hear. You don't get to see the screen all that well there and it looks a bit bland. But the important stuff (numbers) are very clear indeed. How did you find creating your menus?

All very easy. You do it all from the phone app and there's a vast amount of metrics to scroll through, so for each page you choose 10 metrics - wether you want to have them or not, and you can reorder them as you like. As far as I can make out the top line and third line is always slightly bigger and take up a single line, so I have my power at the top, and MPH on the third line.

I thought the zoom in out thing was a gimmick but I found I was using it quite a lot on the road.

I also like when you've planned a route you can see an upcoming profile map, so you know how long the hill is. Plus the I have the LEDs set up to show HR zones which all change colour so you have either 1x white, 2 x blue, 3 x green, 4 x orange or 5 x red, so exceptionally easy to see what your HR is doing at a glance without having to read anything.

My gripes so far. No routing on the device or on the phone. Only on a PC w/Strava or RidewithGPS. Syncing with the phone app took a good 10 minutes (or it felt like 10 minutes) at the end of my ride yesterday. Don't know if that was a glitch.

The screen isn't colour, but apart from the initial menus the Garmin screen isn't colour either. Plus the LEDs provide colour if you want it.

onyourright

What would you want colour for anyway? Clarity is far more important in this application.

I’m glad Wahoo Fitness is giving Garmin a bit of competition with thoughtfully designed devices. Garmin devices are really shockingly bad in many ways. I think Garmin has only managed to get a stranglehold on the cycling market because the barriers to entry are so high.

bendertherobot

OnYourRight wrote:

What would you want colour for anyway? Clarity is far more important in this application.

I’m glad Wahoo Fitness is giving Garmin a bit of competition with thoughtfully designed devices. Garmin devices are really shockingly bad in many ways. I think Garmin has only managed to get a stranglehold on the cycling market because the barriers to entry are so high.

Maps. The roads are coloured and it makes them a bit easier to see. Other than that I agree.

It's fascinating that Garmin have managed this though, they are really being given stiff competition in car sat navs (though Tom Tom are dropping away I feel) but in the fitness band market the other players are really giving it some. It will be interesting to see if Fitbit ever decide to chance their arm.

zak3737

Initially, I wont need the 'Routing' facility, I/we pretty much know our way around the wider immediate area, but perhaps in the future, or when riding elsewhere, we will. No big deal for now.

Its the 'Useability' of the Wahoo that grabs me, and the customisation & clarity, I'd be surprised if this unit isnt on many of the Pro Team's bikes before too long ?

markhewitt1978

Zak3737 wrote:

Initially, I wont need the 'Routing' facility, I/we pretty much know our way around the wider immediate area, but perhaps in the future, or when riding elsewhere, we will. No big deal for now.

Its the 'Useability' of the Wahoo that grabs me, and the customisation & clarity, I'd be surprised if this unit isnt on many of the Pro Team's bikes before too long ?

Teams use what their sponsors ask them to use to be fair and for most of them the requirements are actually less onerous than some of us would require. Videos of what they have on a lot of them just having power and speed and not much else. I think a lot of them use Garmin 500s still just because they are simple to use.

StillGoing

markhewitt1978 wrote:

My gripes so far. No routing on the device or on the phone. Only on a PC w/Strava or RidewithGPS. Syncing with the phone app took a good 10 minutes (or it felt like 10 minutes) at the end of my ride yesterday. Don't know if that was a glitch.

The screen isn't colour, but apart from the initial menus the Garmin screen isn't colour either. Plus the LEDs provide colour if you want it.

Garmin maps are colour though making it easier to distinguish between A and B roads at a glance.

Oops! I see someone has already raised that point.

bendertherobot

So, turn by turn.

1. Create map on Strava, drag it to new files folder on Garmin
2. Go to training, courses, select the file. Easy peasy.
3. Start the course and navigate to the start.

Then, it just works. Either leave it on the map and follow the arrows and guides or put it on training mode and let the directions and beeps flash up as required.

A few things. It likes roads. Tells you to "turn left in 90 yards" etc. It likes roundabouts where you turn beyond the 12 o clock (assuming you come on at 6). It doesn't like telling you to go straight on as far as giving you a direction or audible indicator is concerned. But it works just fine. Went off course and it shrilled at me. Got back on and it was happy. Not as good as a Garmin 1000 clearly.

zak3737

Well, I'm taking my chances on the ELEMNT, order placed.
Read too many reviews/comments etc about the issues 'some have with their Garmins, and the lacklustre update frequency from HO, so seems that Wahoo is way ahead in many respects.
That legibility and OS are just too impressive to ignore.
Will report back after 1st ride with it

markhewitt1978

Zak3737 wrote:

Well, I'm taking my chances on the ELEMNT, order placed.
Read too many reviews/comments etc about the issues 'some have with their Garmins, and the lacklustre update frequency from HO, so seems that Wahoo is way ahead in many respects.
That legibility and OS are just too impressive to ignore.
Will report back after 1st ride with it

There are a few issues with the ELEMNT at the moment. Forgetting the wifi connection and so not updating properly seems to be one. I do get occasional dropouts of sensors, but only for a second or so. And I have specific bugbears such as you can have km/degC and miles/degF but not miles/degC.

That said Wahoo appear to be working on issues and getting fixes out on a regular basis so I expect fast progress.

redhanded

I've been using the ELEMNT for a couple of weeks now. I've come across a couple of bugs, one has an outstanding support ticket with Wahoo and I got a workaround for the other via the unofficial ELEMNT forum on Google groups:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum ... emnt-users

I mentioned previously on this thread, my main reason for getting the ELEMNT was the legibility of the display as I struggle with Garmin colour displays in bright sunlight. Someone younger with better eyesight may simply not have this issue!

At the moment the ELEMNT is overpriced for a basic GPS and anyone used to Garmins won't have to try too hard to find something they are used to on a Garmin that isn't available on the ELEMNT.

So I'm not treating the ELEMNT as a "I just expect this to work" product that I do with some other purchases but I'm trusting Wahoo to fix bugs and deliver more functionality (particularly turn-by-turn) in the next 6-12 months and if not, there is always Garmin...

redhanded

apreading wrote:

Yes, but at a complex juntion they dont help. Turn right and head south dont help if there are two right turns from the juntion. and a juntion where your turning is just a kink in the road, a right fork for example, they may show nothing.

They dont recognise the juntions or the roads. Turn right into B3134 is so much more useful - you wouldnt accept this dumb turning by reconising an angle more than 45 degrees and give very little information type TBT in a car, you would think it a joke.

I stand to be corrected on this, however I thought there were two types of "turn-by-turn" on the 520.

There is "turn guidance" which as you say, is based upon the Garmin recognising changes in direction and this doesn't work very well.

However if you generate a route using an application and file format that can support turn-by-turn cues (such as a TCX file using Ride with GPS), I thought the 520 can display turn-by-turn cues contained within the route. The actual route generated by RwGPS will contain cues like "Turn right onto B3134" and the Garmin will display this.

Another point that did put me off about the 520 was the limited memory for maps (as I have aspirations to go cycling in a number of countries in the next couple of years...)

I believe it is 50M, and from selecting map areas on garmin.openstreetmap.nl, you can just about fit Greater London into this, but if you wanted London and Surrey, you'd need to de-select parts of London to get the map to fit.

The space needed for maps depend on the density of the road network in the area, so maps of parts of the country with a less dense road network than London will cover a much greater geographic area for a given amount of memory.

Clearly if you know you will be cycling in a different area, you can change the maps on the 520, then change them back again, but this will be a faff.

The ELEMNT contains a global map (with the exception of some countries like China...) and they claim they will update this periodically.