Croix de Fer questions

KnightOfTheLongTights

Think I've settled on this as my next bike for winter commuting and touring.
I've read in several places that the frame is good value and therefore self-build is the way to go. But in that case I would not be able to stick it on the Ride to Work scheme, which will save me about 40% of the price on a complete bike. So am likely to go for that.
Given that, what is the difference between the 20 and the 30?
I have looked around but they do a very good job of not explaining it on their website. Probably being dim, but I can't see what makes the £400-500 difference? And is there much difference between the 2014, '15 and '16 versions?
Also the old sizing question - I'm 5'7" and sizing guides usually put me right between a 52 and a 54. I have an Allez in the latter which fits OK, slightly on the large side but good for the more relaxed position you want when touring.
But weirdly I have a 51cm BMC, which is just about right - and I actually had to reduce the reach with a short stem and the seat is down fairly low...

arlowood

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Think I've settled on this as my next bike for winter commuting and touring.
I've read in several places that the frame is good value and therefore self-build is the way to go. But in that case I would not be able to stick it on the Ride to Work scheme, which will save me about 40% of the price on a complete bike. So am likely to go for that.
Given that, what is the difference between the 20 and the 30?
I have looked around but they do a very good job of not explaining it on their website. Probably being dim, but I can't see what makes the £400-500 difference? And is there much difference between the 2014, '15 and '16 versions?
Also the old sizing question - I'm 5'7" and sizing guides usually put me right between a 52 and a 54. I have an Allez in the latter which fits OK, slightly on the large side but good for the more relaxed position you want when touring.
But weirdly I have a 51cm BMC, which is just about right - and I actually had to reduce the reach with a short stem and the seat is down fairly low...

Main differences to justify price with the 2016 versions ;- 20 has mainly Tiagra groupset, 30 has mainly 105 5800. 20 has TRP Hy/Rd mechanical disc brakes with hydraulic actuator while 30 has Shimano full hydraulic brakes. 20 has a wheelset that is probably a bit lower in quality than the 30

KnightOfTheLongTights

Thanks. Do you know if there are any substantial improvements (or otherwise) between the 2015 CdF20 and this year's edition? Or have they just put the price up?

dj58

You need to compare the geometry of your existing bikes to that of the CDF in 50 Small and 53 Medium sizes. The Small has a 544mm HTT and 135mm HT, the Medium has a 561mm HTT and 155mm. Depends on whether you prefer the higher front end, though may be too stretched so you would need a shorter stem.

Stack S. 572mm
Stack M. 593mm
Reach S. 375mm
Reach M. 385mm

Can you find a local stockist and go and try them? This is the info on the changes to the 2016 frame.
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adv ... 5-frameset

The CDF 20 has a 11-34T cassette, so 1 : 1 lowest gear which may be of use when touring, The CDF 30 has tubless ready wheels if that is of interest to you.

bmxboy10

It is a good bike but don't get seduced by the classic lines and marketing. Its a steel frame and its heavy. Not sure if the one you are looking at comes with steel forks but if so a carbon upgrade is a good idea. I preferred the Equilibrium Disc over the CDF. Also be careful on sizing as they come up big.

I think there are better bikes out there for winter trainers and commuting purposes.

KnightOfTheLongTights

solboy10 wrote:

It is a good bike but don't get seduced by the classic lines and marketing. Its a steel frame and its heavy. Not sure if the one you are looking at comes with steel forks but if so a carbon upgrade is a good idea. I preferred the Equilibrium Disc over the CDF. Also be careful on sizing as they come up big.

I think there are better bikes out there for winter trainers and commuting purposes.

OK fair enough - I'm far from wedded to it, only really just started looking into it.
Don't like heavy bikes either.
I need something that will be decent to tour on though - like that will get me up Alps / Pyrenees with panniers.
So far I have done this fine on my Allez triple (onto which I managed to wrestle a pannier rack), although I was slightly surprised and confused to discover that the easiest gear ratio on it is only fractionally easier than that on my compact set-up BMC. So I might not need 1:1 - but I'm not getting any younger, so something close might be useful.
Any suggestions welcome. I'm thinking a grand max.

DeVlaeminck

solboy10 wrote:

It is a good bike but don't get seduced by the classic lines and marketing. Its a steel frame and its heavy. Not sure if the one you are looking at comes with steel forks but if so a carbon upgrade is a good idea. I preferred the Equilibrium Disc over the CDF. Also be careful on sizing as they come up big.

I think there are better bikes out there for winter trainers and commuting purposes.

I had one and have similar feelings - it's a heavy bike that rides like it's a heavy bike - also felt it came up big but luckily I'd gone for the smaller of the two sizes I'd have considered so that was OK. For commuting I'd be happy with it though - for winter training less so - depends what kind of training of course. For touring - have to be honest I've never tried it.

arlowood

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Any suggestions welcome. I'm thinking a grand max.

You could also consider the Planet X London Road. Alloy frame with carbon forks, disc brakes, rear rack mounts and full guard capability. Can take at least 35c tyres and probably bigger if you need to. I would guess a bit lighter than the CdF

For under £1K you can opt for 11-speed SRAM Rival (50/34 with 11-32 casette) and full hydraulic disc brakes.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNRIV ... -road-bike

Plenty of satisfied users out there (including me) - check out this thread

viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12998860

KnightOfTheLongTights

Thanks.
Would you say that's better value than this?
http://goo.gl/fbFdIo

keef66

If the weight of a steel frame concerns you, the Kinesis Racelight 4S is a brilliant all-year round bike (I have the original Racelight Tk from which the 4S evolved. Now in it's 9th year and still going strong)

There's also a disc version if that appeals

Failing that, another vote for the Genesis Equilibrium

arlowood

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Thanks.
Would you say that's better value than this?
http://goo.gl/fbFdIo

No exact figures on weight that I can find but the Bikeradar review put the Equilibrium Disc at " a fair bit over 10kg" and reckoned that it's "Lows" were down to the overall weight and the effect that had on climbing ability.

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... -15-48940/

With the Veloce also the gears are limited to 10-speed with a lowest ratio of 34/29. You also have the rim brake vs hydraulic disc element.

The PX London Road is sub 10kg I believe but I can't find a built weight. The frame + forks weigh 2.3kg. It is also 11-speed with a lowest ratio of 34/32 - a bit better for touring with kit on board.

I have built and ridden the Equilibrium both in rim brake and disc incarnations and enjoyed both at the time but I think my PX London Road is more comfortable and noticeably quicker.

bmxboy10

Can you get a Condor Fratello for a grand? I have the disc version and its better than the CDF but still no lightweight! You may find you can build one up with Veloce or 105 within budget?

KnightOfTheLongTights

solboy10 wrote:

Can you get a Condor Fratello for a grand? I have the disc version and its better than the CDF but still no lightweight! You may find you can build one up with Veloce or 105 within budget?

I will take a look - problem with a build is, it's hard to do it on cyclescheme. And 40% off isn't to be sniffed at.

bmxboy10

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

solboy10 wrote:

Can you get a Condor Fratello for a grand? I have the disc version and its better than the CDF but still no lightweight! You may find you can build one up with Veloce or 105 within budget?

I will take a look - problem with a build is, it's hard to do it on cyclescheme. And 40% off isn't to be sniffed at.

Accept its not 40% due to the final value fee you pay

grahamcp

I have a 2015 Croix de Fer 30 which I got with a good discount (paid £1200). Not sure I like the look of the 2016 models as much, especially at RRP or close to it. Am I right in thinking the 30 doesn't have a carbon fork anymore?

I love the bike and it was very comfortable with the 35 tyres that came with it. However with those I was getting punctures at a rate of one every couple of weeks (they were CX tyres and I am riding mainly on road) so for now I have swapped in 28s with better puncture protection. Still feels nice but I do notice a difference in comfort on the smaller tyres.

I think if you do want the flexibility of being able to fit larger tyres, with mudguards etc, then it is a great bike, although it is expensive really for what it is at full price, and the latest paint jobs aren't a patch on the one I got (imo). If you're never going bigger than 28s then maybe Equilibrium or equivalent would be more suitable. The hydraulic dics brakes are worthy of note - awesome, rode my summer bike with sram red rim brakes for the first time this year at the weekend, and they felt awful by comparison. Glad I didn't go for the 10 or 20 models as they felt just a little too heavy. The 30 is no lightweight but it's not too bad.

stavgold

I love my croix de fer. I built up a 2015 frameset last year with 11speed 105 and hydraulic brakes. Did loads of shopping around for parts and it cost me about £1200 (before I added another set of wheels/tyres....). Have to agree with last poster that hydraulic brakes are great. It's not a light bike but I prefer it to my carbon Giant defy advanced for everyday riding. This is probably due to the comfort of the wide tyres I normally run (38mm barlow pass by compass). These tyres are expensive but they soak up the pot holes brilliantly and I find they are fast enough on winter club runs. With a bit of fettling I've also managed to fit SKS p45 guards.

I've also recently experimented with some 650B wheels/tyres. I know....I may as well get a MTB but I like tinkering.

Here's a pic with its 650Bx42 gravel king tyres and 52mm zeppelin mudguards. Reckon I could fit even wider tyres without guards. Might have to experiment with some 650B mtb tyres next.

mrb123

Stavgold wrote:

I love my croix de fer. I built up a 2015 frameset last year with 11speed 105 and hydraulic brakes. Did loads of shopping around for parts and it cost me about £1200 (before I added another set of wheels/tyres....). Have to agree with last poster that hydraulic brakes are great. It's not a light bike but I prefer it to my carbon Giant defy advanced for everyday riding. This is probably due to the comfort of the wide tyres I normally run (38mm barlow pass by compass). These tyres are expensive but they soak up the pot holes brilliantly and I find they are fast enough on winter club runs. With a bit of fettling I've also managed to fit SKS p45 guards.

I've also recently experimented with some 650B wheels/tyres. I know....I may as well get a MTB but I like tinkering.

Here's a pic with its 650Bx42 gravel king tyres and 52mm zeppelin mudguards. Reckon I could fit even wider tyres without guards. Might have to experiment with some 650B mtb tyres next.

What rack are you running there? I've got the same frame as you, built up with 105. No hydraulics though, just TRP Spyres. Looking to find a well fitting rack for a bit of light touring in the future.

stavgold

Rack is a tortec ultralite.

mrb123

Stavgold wrote:

Rack is a tortec ultralite.

Thanks.