Sportive etiquette

steves999

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find an answer through a brief search.
I tagged onto a small group for the last few k of a sportive today - 100km in and I was knackered...... At the end I thanked them for the tow and just received a grumpy grunt in response.... I would have taken a turn, but no-one else was so I just wheelsucked..... Am I a really bad person?!

964cup

Oh, not this again. Was it a race? Did you go all Greg van A and outsprint them at the end? Did you crash into them at any time?

No?

Then they should shut the f up. It's a sportive. Weaker riders will wheelsuck stronger groups. No, you don't have to say hello. It's nice of you to thank them, but a bit irrelevant. It's not as if your presence slowed them down or inconvenienced them, so they hardly have anything to complain about.

This whole "get off my wheel, wheelsucker" thing is so pathetically small-penis macho as to be verging on the absurd. I thought it was particularly depressing to see it as a front-page article on the website this week. If you're stronger than someone else, and they get a tow, feel good about yourself. If they can't take a turn, they can't take a turn. After all, if you're making progress and have forgotten that Sportives aren't races, so are obsessing about your time, the last thing you want is some slow bugger on the front, isn't it?

[/rant]

Alex99

steves999 wrote:

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find an answer through a brief search.
I tagged onto a small group for the last few k of a sportive today - 100km in and I was knackered...... At the end I thanked them for the tow and just received a grumpy grunt in response.... I would have taken a turn, but no-one else was so I just wheelsucked..... Am I a really bad person?!

Is an alternative explanation for the "grumpy grunt" just that they were shagged at the end of the ride? Either that, or they were just grumpy irrespective of your actions.

And no, it doesn't sound like you did anything that is bad etiquette. It is polite to say hello when you joing a group, but that's about it. I suppose if the rider or group that you join is relatively inexperienced, they might feel a sense of pressure 'leading' a group, but that shoud be manageable.

The only other thing perhaps to mention is that some people feel some anxiety when someone is close behind them, but probably a pretty rare thing.

If you really want to cover the bases, I would just ask if it is OK to tag along.

Anyway, having a rider behind gives the front rider some aero lift too. The easiest position in a team pursuit is second from the back.

bigmat

I suppose if they have just done the last 10 miles into a raging headwind with a string of riders on their wheel, they might be a bit miffed that nobody else shared the work. There are ways to deal with that out on the road though (flick an elbow, start freewheeling, have a word, sprint off the front etc).

ddraver

It's bad form to wheelsuck and then sprint I think but anything else is pretty much ok. I suppose there are a few people that might not trust you to know what you re doing in a group but that comes down to thinking the best or worst of people really.

There was no shortage of people sucking our small group of 3 on Saturday. One of the guys got a bit miffed a couple of times when the three of us had pulled 20 people for 20km into the nasty headwind or when there were 2 clearly good people (with all the gear) just sitting on when we were all feeling the effects at the end. I didnt feel too guilty rolling past him on the "line" (there wasnt really much of a line)

slowbike

Sounds pretty normal to me ...

I've had my share of being towed and towing - the only thing that annoys me is if people get a tow (from me or "my group") for a bit then go past without a word ... you could at least say "Hi" ...

As for being grumpy when someone says Hi ... well what's that all about ? It's supposed to be about having a nice day out on your bike with some company ... if you're going to get all grumpy about it you're doing it wrong!

Rob Somerset

No bad but 'I would have taken a turn, but no-one else was so I just wheelsucked' sort of said I want a good finish time without the effort, not that it bothers me. Its not a crisis if anyone is upset then they can drop you. It can be annoying, from experience, if you're with a couple of mates doing turns and you look behind to see a line of 20 people and causing traffic chaos or some dim wit keeps half-wheeling you/cant keep a steady pace and is looking like a crash waiting to happen.

DeVlaeminck

Slightly different to some of the above in a smallish group if most are sharing the work yes I think you should take a turn or at least offer some kind of explanation why you aren't, too tired, lazy b@stard or whatever. The fact you are drafting implies you are bothered about getting round as fast as you can, in which case you can't really blame the others for expecting you to contribute to their effort in getting round as fast as they can.

Had a situation years back in the Autumn Epic when myself and one other had towed a group of maybe 7-8 for several miles of flat coming towards the end of the ride and that big final climb - eventually the other guy swung to the back of the line and when I swung off I gestured for the line to come through and the next guy actually applied his brakes ! You accept that if you are obviously stronger than most then you'll do more but you expect people to chip in what they can.

Brakeless

It is bad form to sit on someones wheel and not do a turn. If you're not feeling great tell the person and just do a short turn. If the person in front is feeling strong the chances are they will say 'no problem' but not to even offer is out of order. If I get someone on my wheel who won't do a turn I presume they're not a very good rider and therefore I don't want them that close to me and I'm happy to tell them so. This for me is plain cycling etiquette rather than Sportive specific.

graeme_s-2

This is from a sportive I did the last weekend in Feb (the Rawlinson Bracket). I'm 2nd wheel in the red jacket, on the lime green bike. The rider in front of me and the two immediately behind me are all friends of mine.



I've never met anyone else in that group, they didn't say hello or thank us. The group got larger and smaller, people passed us, others dropped off the back, others caught us and sat on, it split and reformed etc. It's what happens on sportives - if you don't like it, don't participate in them.

I stopped to eat something towards the end (couldn't open an energy bar with my winter gloves on) and didn't catch up with my friends before the finish. For a while I rode with two different cyclists and both times had a chat and took turns.

If you're the sort of person who's going to get riled by this sort of thing (or even upset by other people getting riled about it) then I'd just stick to riding by yourself or with friends

Brakeless

The girl on the front is holding a good line :shock:

markhewitt1978

Brakeless wrote:

It is bad form to sit on someones wheel and not do a turn. If you're not feeling great tell the person and just do a short turn. If the person in front is feeling strong the chances are they will say 'no problem' but not to even offer is out of order. If I get someone on my wheel who won't do a turn I presume they're not a very good rider and therefore I don't want them that close to me and I'm happy to tell them so. This for me is plain cycling etiquette rather than Sportive specific.

Yes and no, the fact that it was a sportive *does* make a difference. In a normal group ride with friends, not doing a turn, even a short one is of course very rude indeed. Wheelsucking strangers when on a random ride is not on either. But on a sportive you're all going in the same direction as part of the same event so groups form and groups dissolve and on it goes, so no it doesn't matter if someone sticks on the back of a group and doesn't do a turn.

graeme_s-2

Her bike handling's fine - I think it's just unfortunate the way the photo's taken

Alex99

ddraver wrote:

It's bad form to wheelsuck and then sprint I think but anything else is pretty much ok. I suppose there are a few people that might not trust you to know what you re doing in a group but that comes down to thinking the best or worst of people really.

There was no shortage of people sucking our small group of 3 on Saturday. One of the guys got a bit miffed a couple of times when the three of us had pulled 20 people for 20km into the nasty headwind or when there were 2 clearly good people (with all the gear) just sitting on when we were all feeling the effects at the end. I didnt feel too guilty rolling past him on the "line" (there wasnt really much of a line)

"2 clearly good people (with all the gear)"

Since when does that follow?

Alex99

Brakeless wrote:

It is bad form to sit on someones wheel and not do a turn. If you're not feeling great tell the person and just do a short turn. If the person in front is feeling strong the chances are they will say 'no problem' but not to even offer is out of order. If I get someone on my wheel who won't do a turn I presume they're not a very good rider and therefore I don't want them that close to me and I'm happy to tell them so. This for me is plain cycling etiquette rather than Sportive specific.

Can you really tell someone not to ride behind you? If you have a rider or group that is reluctant to come through and you're unhappy with them on your wheel, surely the only respectable courses of action are:

1) Take the safety off the Howitzers - drop them immediately
2) Go as slow as neccessary to move to the back, take a breather, then at the next hill drop them

poweredbyidris

Graeme_S wrote:

This is from a sportive I did the last weekend in Feb (the Rawlinson Bracket). I'm 2nd wheel in the red jacket, on the lime green bike. The rider in front of me and the two immediately behind me are all friends of mine.



I've never met anyone else in that group, they didn't say hello or thank us. The group got larger and smaller, people passed us, others dropped off the back, others caught us and sat on, it split and reformed etc. It's what happens on sportives - if you don't like it, don't participate in them.

I stopped to eat something towards the end (couldn't open an energy bar with my winter gloves on) and didn't catch up with my friends before the finish. For a while I rode with two different cyclists and both times had a chat and took turns.

If you're the sort of person who's going to get riled by this sort of thing (or even upset by other people getting riled about it) then I'd just stick to riding by yourself or with friends

Bloody Cyclists riding 10 a breast etc, etc....

graeme_s-2

PoweredByIdris wrote:

Bloody Cyclists riding 10 a breast etc, etc....

Bit of an unruly lot aren't they?

ddraver

Alex99 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

It's bad form to wheelsuck and then sprint I think but anything else is pretty much ok. I suppose there are a few people that might not trust you to know what you re doing in a group but that comes down to thinking the best or worst of people really.

There was no shortage of people sucking our small group of 3 on Saturday. One of the guys got a bit miffed a couple of times when the three of us had pulled 20 people for 20km into the nasty headwind or when there were 2 clearly good people (with all the gear) just sitting on when we were all feeling the effects at the end. I didnt feel too guilty rolling past him on the "line" (there wasnt really much of a line)

"2 clearly good people (with all the gear)"

Since when does that follow?

It might not follow but it doesnt preclude

slowbike

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Brakeless wrote:

It is bad form to sit on someones wheel and not do a turn. If you're not feeling great tell the person and just do a short turn. If the person in front is feeling strong the chances are they will say 'no problem' but not to even offer is out of order. If I get someone on my wheel who won't do a turn I presume they're not a very good rider and therefore I don't want them that close to me and I'm happy to tell them so. This for me is plain cycling etiquette rather than Sportive specific.

Yes and no, the fact that it was a sportive *does* make a difference. In a normal group ride with friends, not doing a turn, even a short one is of course very rude indeed. Wheelsucking strangers when on a random ride is not on either. But on a sportive you're all going in the same direction as part of the same event so groups form and groups dissolve and on it goes, so no it doesn't matter if someone sticks on the back of a group and doesn't do a turn.

In a normal group ride with friends - not doing a turn on the front - rude? Depends - depends on the friends and the nature of the ride - I've ridden loads of times with a friend and towed the whole way round - but that is my choice - pre-arranged and understood as the norm as I'm stronger than them. Similarly I've ridden club rides where the stronger riders sit on the front and the weaker ones get a tow around - nobody is bothered - it's a ride, not a competition.

Tagging onto random strangers and not doing a turn on the front? Again, not worried - if one rider is clearly stronger then what does it matter to them if you wheelsuck - providing you're doing it safely - it's nice to say ello and thanks though Done it a few times myself and had it done to me.

If you don't want to ride with someone on your wheel then say so, accelarate and drop them or slow until they go past - unless you're racing nobody is going to be that bothered surely?

phil485

Photographer missed me

Good event though

fenix

If you're not bothered about them doing some work then whats the harm ?

If you are bothered - then bloody tell them so. I'd not sit there doing all the work if I was bothered about wheelsuckers not doing their turn.

We had a good group going on one closed road sportive - we'd swept up about 7 or 8 riders and we were all doing our turn - apart from someone who said he was knackered - so fair enough he stayed at the back.

Then with a mile to go he suddenly sprints past ! Cheeky fkr.

I pulled him back - but what's the point in that - it's a sportive not Milan San Bloody Remo.

Alex99

Fenix wrote:

If you're not bothered about them doing some work then whats the harm ?

If you are bothered - then bloody tell them so. I'd not sit there doing all the work if I was bothered about wheelsuckers not doing their turn.

We had a good group going on one closed road sportive - we'd swept up about 7 or 8 riders and we were all doing our turn - apart from someone who said he was knackered - so fair enough he stayed at the back.

Then with a mile to go he suddenly sprints past ! Cheeky fkr.

I pulled him back - but what's the point in that - it's a sportive not Milan San Bloody Remo.

Just out of interest, why did you pull him back?

mpatts

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's not a race.i'm not sure I quite 'get' the concept of a group unknown to each other expecting everyone to take a fair share of the work.

As it's not a race, just slow down - job done. Or just sit up and ask if they fancy a bit of through and off.

DeVlaeminck

Alex99 wrote:

Fenix wrote:

If you're not bothered about them doing some work then whats the harm ?

If you are bothered - then bloody tell them so. I'd not sit there doing all the work if I was bothered about wheelsuckers not doing their turn.

We had a good group going on one closed road sportive - we'd swept up about 7 or 8 riders and we were all doing our turn - apart from someone who said he was knackered - so fair enough he stayed at the back.

Then with a mile to go he suddenly sprints past ! Cheeky fkr.

I pulled him back - but what's the point in that - it's a sportive not Milan San Bloody Remo.

Just out of interest, why did you pull him back?

Because he was bothered about him being a cheeky fkr.