Tiagra 4700 left-hand shifter problem

js14

I'm building a bike with the new 10 speed Tiagra 4700 groupset. The left-hand shifter (for a double chain wheel) is giving me problems. It stopped shifting from the small to large chain wheel when I tried to set up the front derailleur. There is no ratcheting and no resistance when the big lever moves and the shifter doesn't pull the cable. If I release the cable tension, by undoing the cable clamp bolt on the front derailleur, and give a few clicks with the small B lever, I can then get the big lever to ratchet again (but it doesn't last if I refix the cable). I have double checked the cable routing and that the cable is correctly inserted in the shifter and all seems to be OK.

I suspect I have the similar broken pawl fault as has often been reported on the early 105 2x10 speed left-hand shifters. However I haven't found any reports on the web that specifically mention the Tiagra 4700 shifters. If it is the same problem, I am not impressed by Shimano who have had several years to find a solution to the shifter issues. Anyway, a shifter shouldn't fail straight out of the box and should be able to stand up to a few test clicks without breaking, otherwise how is it going to stand up to the rough and tumble of real road use?

For now I've asked for a replacement from the German online bike shop that sold me the groupset and I am waiting to see what they say.

Semantik

have you tried removing cable from the bike all the way back to the shifter then noting what shifting action you get then at the lever?- if the shifter paddle moves correctly with the cable detached from the front mech then it suggests a cable routing problem or a cable tension issue(too high). If the shifter internals were broken I imagine it wouldn't work at all, cable attached or not.

js14

Thanks for the reply.

I double-checked it again today. The cable routing is OK with no sticky cables or sharp bends (and I haven't taped the cables to the bars yet). And even reducing the cable tension to practically zero doesn't solve the problem, there is certainly certainly a lot less tension than on my other bike with Ultegra 6700, which works perfectly. The small amount of cable to housing friction must be enough to stop the lever mechanism returning to the minimum pull position. I get the impression that there is insufficient spring tension to pull the cable when the small 'B' lever is operated to return to the small chain wheel and reset the ratchet mechanism. My guess is there is a broken or weak spring somewhere in the lever.

Anyway, the online shop have asked me to send both levers back at their expense, so hopefully they will confirm the problem and send some new ones out.

Semantik

JS14 wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

I double-checked it again today. The cable routing is OK with no sticky cables or sharp bends (and I haven't taped the cables to the bars yet). And even reducing the cable tension to practically zero doesn't solve the problem, there is certainly certainly a lot less tension than on my other bike with Ultegra 6700, which works perfectly. The small amount of cable to housing friction must be enough to stop the lever mechanism returning to the minimum pull position. I get the impression that there is insufficient spring tension to pull the cable when the small 'B' lever is operated to return to the small chain wheel and reset the ratchet mechanism. My guess is there is a broken or weak spring somewhere in the lever.

Anyway, the online shop have asked me to send both levers back at their expense, so hopefully they will confirm the problem and send some new ones out.

Be interested to hear what they say. Could be a good excuse to upgrade to 11 speed now...

trailflow

If you unhook the cable from the FD and hold it between your fingers and pull, then opererate the shifter (both levers ) you can deternime if the shifter/trim positions are working properly or not. if you've already done that

Are you aware of the need to do the low limit screw 'trick' before clamping the cable ?
It sounds like you are not achieving high enough cable tension. Thats why nothing happens when you click the shifters.

The newer 4700,5800 FD's require alot more tension than before. It is unlikely you will get the tension right by hand/finger strength alone. So the low limit screw trick needs to be done.

Also the newer FD's are very senstive to tight cable bends/routing, So if you have the option, maybe try crossing the cables over to the opposite sides of the frame to allow for a easier curve of the outer cable. This will result in the cables having to cross over under the downtube but it will improve shifting ten fold. Also try lubing any bottom bracket cable guide.

See if this set up guide helps. It applies to 5800,6800,9000 FD's but should work with 4700
viewtopic.php?t=12976309

(and I haven't taped the cables to the bars yet).

i've found it is best to tape the cables to the bars before clamping the cable. So that it helps to prevent or minimise any cable deflection which might effect the shifting.

markhewitt1978

I noticed when setting mine up that if I left the hoods peeled back then the shifting wouldn't do anything. But if I pushed the hoods down over the cables it operates normally. No idea why that would be so.

trailflow

Its because the rubber gets bunch up and stops the small lever returning fully. The big lever wont work until it does.

js14

I aligned the cage position with the large chain wheel before clamping the inner cable, as in the Shimano manual DM-FD0002-03. You're right, this does give a lot of tension in the cable, so I don't think this is the problem.

I posted the levers back to the supplier this morning. I will try your suggestion of doing the clamping and adjustment with the cables taped in place on the handlebars next time, when I get some new shifters.

I found this video of a 105 left shifter which exhibits pretty much the same symptoms as my Tiagra 4700's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKNYgHuxBQ4

js14

Quick update: the German online shop confirmed the shifter was faulty and has sent me a replacement shifter set. I'm just waiting for it to arrive so that I can continue the build. Two weekends have been lost, so unfortunately the bike won't now be finished in time for a Easter holiday ride. But the good news is that I will probably end up with a spare set of cables

basslake

Not wanting to but I joined the club this morning. I still had cable tension but no shifting from small to big ring. Rode to the LBS and they had five other bikes there with the same 4700 shifter problem.

Edit 06/25/19 - And another one broke. This time after shifting to the granny ring the main lever now resides a good 1/2" outboard from the small lever. Still works but to be safe I put on a third one I had kicking around from round 1 of this fiasco.

vladvlad

Same problen with 2 new bikes out of the box from Giant and Specialized. Waiting for warranty decision from them and local Shimano. Hope to replace but clients are not happy to wait up to 2 weeks w/o riding.

cycling_dave

I've had exactly the same problem. I bought a brand new bike with Tiagra 4700 and when I assembled it the front shifter worked for about ten pulls and then started to become unreliable and behaved the same way as yours did but eventually stopped working entirely. Like your shifter I could displace the large paddle to try to shift to the large chain ring and there was no cable pull.

I took it to the first (yes there were more than one) mechanic and he was puzzled why a new shifter wouldn't work and he looked at derrailleur, the cable, everything. He was puzzled. Eventually, we decided that it had to be the shifter. He later said quietly that he's seen a lot of that. I called the bike company and they sent out a new one. I had it installed and the mechanic confirmed that the original had failed. When dealing with the both mechanics I mentioned that the shifting to the large ring required a lot of force and both confirmed that the cable pull angle at the front derraileur pivot arm was iffy at best and just plain wrong at worst. This was really bad news. The story is that many carbon frames are generic and are not compatable with the new Tiagra 4700 front derrailleur. Not good news.

This situation might end on a very positive note and I'll write about that when its all over. In the mean time, beware Tiagra 4700 on generic frames.

cycling_dave

I decided I wasn't willing to live with the front derailleur / frame bottom bracket compatibility problem. I called the company and told them I wanted to keep the bike but something had to be done to make the front derailleur shifting right. The tech researched it and agreed that there was a problem. He said the only way to fix it was for him to send out upgraded parts and added he'd send 105 parts they had lying around. Turns out he sent Ultegra 10 speed. I was ecstatic. They solve the problem and work great.

turbo1191

Ive been having the very same problems with both shifters on a set of 4700 shifters.. was there a fix for this or were they possibly a dodgy batch that left the factory??

k-dog

It's not a great design so something can break in the shifter but I'm also fairly confident that they mainly break because of poor setup - the tension is way too high and the trim positions aren't right.

If you set them up well from scratch then the shifting is much easier and there's a lot less tension pulling on the shifter ratchet.

turbo1191

Yeh- they don't seem the easiest shifter in the world to set up..I don't think the trim function helps matters. I set mine up by the book and everytime I go from the big ring to small then try go back to the big it doesn't engage..

k-dog

Try this for the best shifting I've had from my same era 105:

Start with the cable unclamped.

Make sure the gap between the big chainring teeth and front derailleur cage is 2-5mm.

Put the chain on the small front ring and biggest back cog.

Adjust the inner limit screw (closest to the frame on the front derailleur) so the gap is 1mm from the chain (obviously on the inside/downtube side of the cage).

Make sure to click the downshift lever into its lowest postion.

Clamp the cable (finger tight cable tension- not too much). Then shift the chain onto the smallest at the back, and shift the front onto the big ring. There should now be some chain rubbing on the cage if you spin the cranks.

Then wind the inline barrel adjuster (adding more cable tension) until there is a 1mm gap between the outer cage and chain, and no chain rub.

Then wind the outer limit screw in until it just touches the stop. (start off with the outer limit screwed out, if it's screwed in too much it wont shift up)

Now shift the chain onto the small front ring, and the rear onto the second to smallest cog. Then click into the front small ring trim position. Now whilst in the trim position - add more tension again with the barrel adjuster until there is no rub. Leave a gap of 2mm from the chain and the outer cage. This will eliminate any slop in the trim position and make it feel more positive.

That method works for me - no trim needed in the big ring and only when you get to the last 3 or so when you're on the small ring, so a lot less fiddling around.

turbo1191

My problem is the actual shifter. I've got it setup now but when you shift from the big ring to small there is no response from the lever when trying to change back up- as if there was no tension. .

k-dog

Sounds like the ratchet has broken then.

turbo1191

I can definitely hear something loose in the shifter..

Kekegoal

Hey OP,

I am having EXACTLY the same problem with my Tiagra 4700!

Left shifter won't "click" when I try to change into bing chain ring.....

Did you manage to find a solution?

turbo1191

I posted on the previous page. If you can hear something rattling inside the shifter there is a likelihood the ratchet has snapped.. If not, they are 'very' sensitive to cable tension. If you have the slightest bit too much tension it won't engage. Wind the cable adjuster back in a bit until it 'bites'..

holio.cornolio

JS14 wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

I double-checked it again today. The cable routing is OK with no sticky cables or sharp bends (and I haven't taped the cables to the bars yet). And even reducing the cable tension to practically zero doesn't solve the problem, there is certainly certainly a lot less tension than on my other bike with Ultegra 6700, which works perfectly. The small amount of cable to housing friction must be enough to stop the lever mechanism returning to the minimum pull position. I get the impression that there is insufficient spring tension to pull the cable when the small 'B' lever is operated to return to the small chain wheel and reset the ratchet mechanism. My guess is there is a broken or weak spring somewhere in the lever.

Anyway, the online shop have asked me to send both levers back at their expense, so hopefully they will confirm the problem and send some new ones out.

I've just spent a few hours pondering exactly the cause of this same issue on my tiagra 4700 left lever, and although I'm sure that this post is long since dead, the dearth of info out there to solve this issue, leads me to make this post in the hope that it may help others. In my shifter there was a weak return spring which holds the pawl against the return mechanism ratchet. This, coupled with a very slightly tight pinion, meant that when the derailleur was returned to the small chainwheel, the pawl was left floating and would not return to it's position against the ratchet. I tightened the spring as much as I could, and added a tiny drop of lubricant to both the spring and the ratchet pinion, and with a bit of wiggling, it seems to have fixed the issue. Whether its a long term fix I don;t know, but I'm convinced that your weak spring diagnosis is most likely. I will post pics some time if anyone is interested...

turbo1191

Interested in the pics if you have them..

boom

exactly the same problem - tried everything, no avail

My conclusion - the 4700 LHS is a pile of crap!

turbo1191

I have these shifters on hire bikes I stock and my silupplier has replaced these under warranty as everyone has failed. There was a problem with the first batch that left the factory..