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2/3Hrs Plus Legs Give Up

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  • Burnout - Plain and simple. Our bodies need rest.
    Stay positive people :)
  • Alex99Alex99 Posts: 1,407
    2-3 hours riding doesn't need food. Practise starting your rides fasted and not eating till you get back. You may bonk on the first go but your body will adapt. Only TdF riders need to feed every hour so unless you are pushing 400+W the save the money for the next bike.
    Definitely do the zone 2 pacing. This gets your body used to working at that steady aerobic rate. As you practise you will get faster. You may be unpleasantly surprised how slow zone 2 is to begin with which shows how you have been trying to be anaerobic for 3 hours previously.

    I would only agree with you if the 2-3 hour ride in question is at a very low intensity. It is a quesiton of calories expended, and how much glycogen you have at the start of the ride.

    "Only TdF riders need to feed every hour so unless you are pushing 400+W the save the money for the next bike." TDF riders are not pushing 400 W all the time. Most of the time is in the peleton doing 200-300 W or so. The principles of this are the same for the pro's as they are for everyone else. The aim, not to run out of carbs.

    How is your body going to adapt to being starved? Most likely, by going very slowly.

    If you ride moderately hard, then burning through your glycogen in 2-3 hours is to be expected, and you'll be left feeling very low and will have to slow down to a crawl. You can only delay this by dropping the intensity, fueling on the go, or increasing your capacity through training. No amount of training is going to make you able to abandon the need for food. The amount of 'fart burning' adaptation you can get, unless I'm mistaken is not conclusively studied.
  • Alex99 wrote:
    2-3 hours riding doesn't need food. Practise starting your rides fasted and not eating till you get back. You may bonk on the first go but your body will adapt. Only TdF riders need to feed every hour so unless you are pushing 400+W the save the money for the next bike.
    Definitely do the zone 2 pacing. This gets your body used to working at that steady aerobic rate. As you practise you will get faster. You may be unpleasantly surprised how slow zone 2 is to begin with which shows how you have been trying to be anaerobic for 3 hours previously.

    I would only agree with you if the 2-3 hour ride in question is at a very low intensity. It is a quesiton of calories expended, and how much glycogen you have at the start of the ride.

    "Only TdF riders need to feed every hour so unless you are pushing 400+W the save the money for the next bike." TDF riders are not pushing 400 W all the time. Most of the time is in the peloton doing 200-300 W or so. The principles of this are the same for the pro's as they are for everyone else. The aim, not to run out of carbs.

    How is your body going to adapt to being starved? Most likely, by going very slowly.

    If you ride moderately hard, then burning through your glycogen in 2-3 hours is to be expected, and you'll be left feeling very low and will have to slow down to a crawl. You can only delay this by dropping the intensity, fueling on the go, or increasing your capacity through training. No amount of training is going to make you able to abandon the need for food. The amount of 'fart burning' adaptation you can get, unless I'm mistaken is not conclusively studied.

    "Fart" burning ey? That's a new one! :lol:

    Thanks for all the input thus far. Weather permitting I'll be out on an Audax (100km) this saturday, without my speedier friend. A good opportunity to hold back for the first few hours, and monitor how this affects my ability later in the ride. :D
  • Alex99Alex99 Posts: 1,407
    jonnyb_123 wrote:
    Alex99 wrote:
    2-3 hours riding doesn't need food. Practise starting your rides fasted and not eating till you get back. You may bonk on the first go but your body will adapt. Only TdF riders need to feed every hour so unless you are pushing 400+W the save the money for the next bike.
    Definitely do the zone 2 pacing. This gets your body used to working at that steady aerobic rate. As you practise you will get faster. You may be unpleasantly surprised how slow zone 2 is to begin with which shows how you have been trying to be anaerobic for 3 hours previously.

    I would only agree with you if the 2-3 hour ride in question is at a very low intensity. It is a quesiton of calories expended, and how much glycogen you have at the start of the ride.

    "Only TdF riders need to feed every hour so unless you are pushing 400+W the save the money for the next bike." TDF riders are not pushing 400 W all the time. Most of the time is in the peloton doing 200-300 W or so. The principles of this are the same for the pro's as they are for everyone else. The aim, not to run out of carbs.

    How is your body going to adapt to being starved? Most likely, by going very slowly.

    If you ride moderately hard, then burning through your glycogen in 2-3 hours is to be expected, and you'll be left feeling very low and will have to slow down to a crawl. You can only delay this by dropping the intensity, fueling on the go, or increasing your capacity through training. No amount of training is going to make you able to abandon the need for food. The amount of 'fart burning' adaptation you can get, unless I'm mistaken is not conclusively studied.

    "Fart" burning ey? That's a new one! :lol:

    Thanks for all the input thus far. Weather permitting I'll be out on an Audax (100km) this saturday, without my speedier friend. A good opportunity to hold back for the first few hours, and monitor how this affects my ability later in the ride. :D

    Heh heh. My best ever typo!

    If I could adapt to utilise methane for foward motion I'd be king of the road. I'd need asbestos reinforced shorts though.
  • From my own personal experience you just need to keep riding.

    Running will help keep you healthy, but from my own experience has zero benefit on cycling. Over the last 12 months I've ramped up my mileage, 5000 last year, and have now started focusing on ride intensity. I used to do lots of "steady" rides and had reached a good level, but now I can see a real step on in my strength, speed and ability to ride for longer.

    I came across a Pro rider on Strava yesterday and they had ridden 550 miles last week. Clearly that's their job, but it points to the fact that if you want to be a better cyclist you need to put in the miles.
  • Brian BBrian B Posts: 2,071
    I agree with others that you need to just need to build the distance slowly. All this nonsense about binning water and energy drinks, taking gels - just ignore that and also the weekly mileage theory while were at it. When I started off I had the same issues as you did(despite trying every energy drink, food, gels and carb loading) and it took me a while to adjust to bigger miles and sometimes was VERY tired afterwards and then even the next day also. Factor in some days of complete rest or even two to allow your body to repair and rebuild.

    Only really seriously got on the the bike again after a censored scottish winter 2 weeks ago but did 3 sportive routes over the weekend Fri Ullapool Mor 132miles, Sat Bealach Mor 90 miles, Sun Skye Mor 95 miles. I only did a few spin sessions a week over the winter so there is proof in muscle memory and the good news is when your body is adapted to long miles then it will retain that ability. I'm off back to bed to recover :lol:
    Brian B.
  • Just a couple of other points.

    A friend of mine rode around 2000 miles last year, but then had 4/5 months off with no cycling. On his first ride back this year he was struggling after the first hour of a steady Club Run.

    It all points to building up the miles and regular rides to maintain and develop your cycling. Also, it doesn't happen over night. I bought my first road bike at the back end of 2010 and I've slowly developed since then. As mentioned I've started to up the miles and intensity, but it was only last week I clocked a solo 20 mph average ride for a two hour ride.

    I agree with ignoring the points about gels etc. Eat properly before, during and after a ride and you shouldn't need gels. Although I know some riders like them and that's their choice.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,919
    I can vouch for that, I trained for a 300km ride with a mate last year and last summer was knocking off 200, 250 km rides for fun on a sunny weekend day. Last week I did a 100km sportive and the just past weekend i did 160 and both of them broke me
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DavidJBDavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Just training...keep upping it and eating less to train your fat burning. I ride up to 4 hours / 4.30 hours eating nothing but a decent breakfast before I leave. After about 3 1/2 hours my body switches to fat burning as the glycogen runs out (10 bpm higher for same power) but while it gets harder I've not "bonked" in years.
  • Alex99Alex99 Posts: 1,407
    DavidJB wrote:
    Just training...keep upping it and eating less to train your fat burning. I ride up to 4 hours / 4.30 hours eating nothing but a decent breakfast before I leave. After about 3 1/2 hours my body switches to fat burning as the glycogen runs out (10 bpm higher for same power) but while it gets harder I've not "bonked" in years.

    This is semantics... but I thought that glycogen running out = the bonk. You're forced to drop the pace off.
  • DavidJBDavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Alex99 wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    Just training...keep upping it and eating less to train your fat burning. I ride up to 4 hours / 4.30 hours eating nothing but a decent breakfast before I leave. After about 3 1/2 hours my body switches to fat burning as the glycogen runs out (10 bpm higher for same power) but while it gets harder I've not "bonked" in years.

    This is semantics... but I thought that glycogen running out = the bonk. You're forced to drop the pace off.

    Not at all, you can train your body to burn fat efficiently. I can output the same power but to a higher heart rate (and it feels more laboured). Note that I'm not going to be smashing any hills...this is all zone 2 work.

    A bonk is completely running out of energy and not being able to turn the pedals.

    Did 80 miles this morning over 4 hours 20 and only had a bowl of cereal before I left...no way I had any glycogen left at the end but was outputting the same power but my HR was markedly higher.

    Obviously everyone is different and I have built this up over years of training so I'm not saying everyone should go out and try and ride without food for 4 hours that would be a mistake but it's worth trying to extend your time without food slowly over the years.

    Stats from this morning:

    Mile 5 - 15 - average power 222w , average HR 125
    Mile 60 - 75 -average power 220w, avergae HR 136

    There was a 8-10 BPM increase almost immediately around mile 60 even though power was the same.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,403
    It's worth pointing out in case it isn't obvious to everyone that the only point of doing what DavidJB is suggesting above is as specific training for burning fat more effeciently (or to burn off fat). If you fuel properly you will go faster over the same distance (or at least will be able to do so).
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