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Colnago C60 Traditional vs Slooping vs Pinarello Dogma F8

3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
edited August 2016 in Road general
Hi there.. Im in to the buying a new frame.

After trying few bikes, and reading everything i found, i decide to go with Colnago C60 or Pinarello Dogma F8

Im 40 years old, in ok shape, a bit overweighted, and i really love to climb.

This bike i'll keep at least 6-7 years maybe more.

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I ride a lot of mountains, but also very often long riding like 120km-200km at once.

As first, in term of performance what is the difference between Traditional and Slooping C60?

Which of this two geometries is faster and better for climbing and for long distance riding?

Except the look, is there any performance difference that i'll notice?

If i need to choose only based of look, i prefer traditional.. But this time i want to choose based on performance (Climbing :) )

And if i compare Pinarello Dogma F8 with winner of those two (slooping vs traditional), which is better and why? (Again i'll prefer climbing performance, but in same time to be able to ride long distances)

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Until now, i ride Pinarello FP3 in 53cm size

Greetings and thanks a lot in advance



p.s. Please let's talk just about those selection.. I'll buy one of this
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Posts

  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    More space for your belly on a 'slooping' top tube ?

    TBH It's all about looks. Neither is faster. You don't see the dogma romping away from the pro peloton leaving the C60 behind.

    Choose the prettiest.
  • debelidebeli Posts: 582
    Keep the FP3. It is a lovely bicycle.

    A few months into ownership of the new one, any benefit will be forgotten.

    You've done all the research, so only you can answer your original (and wrong) question. The real question is "Do I need to replace my FP3?" and the answer is "You do not".

    You are capable of making the decision yourself to buy the 'traditional geometry' C60 if you really must change. You know it is the only real choice but are afraid of committing.

    But really.... Keep the FP3 and upgrade over time as components wear out.
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    debeli wrote:
    Keep the FP3. It is a lovely bicycle.

    A few months into ownership of the new one, any benefit will be forgotten.

    You've done all the research, so only you can answer your original (and wrong) question. The real question is "Do I need to replace my FP3?" and the answer is "You do not".

    You are capable of making the decision yourself to buy the 'traditional geometry' C60 if you really must change. You know it is the only real choice but are afraid of committing.

    But really.... Keep the FP3 and upgrade over time as components wear out.

    I had an accident with Fp3 :( During the installation of Cycloc Hero Bike Rack, bike fell down from 1.8 meters, and frame is crashed :( (and one Sound Speaker is damaged as well)

    BTW, Cycloc Hero is nice idea, but still not realized until the end. It was funny that Cycloc respond to my e-mail like:
    "Oh, we need more pictures to see what happened..." I send them very detailed pictures, and no response at all.Avoid this brand

    And i allready bought new components to upgrade Fp3 (Wheelset,Record Groupset, Saddle...)

    So that's the reason that i need to buy a new frame :(

    Now im thinking should i go trad or sloping, because all the stores i asked and also directly Colnago, they are saying that there is stifness difference between those two geometries, and that for climbing Sloping is better.

    Im just not sure if thats marketing or real. If there is big difference in term of performance sloping over trad, i'll buy sloping.. But if they are same then i prefer look of trad. So this is what im trying to figure out
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,202
    No performance difference at all - nada, zilch. Just choose the one you like the look of.
  • Shuggy76Shuggy76 Posts: 91
    I really wouldn't have thought there was any difference in performance between sloping and trad top tubes. If you're getting a C60, surely it needs to be a Traditional, else you're just a heathen ;-)
  • src1src1 Posts: 301
    C60 traditional has a lower stack for the same reach. Take a look at the geometry of the two versions and pick the one that suits you best.
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    src1 wrote:
    C60 traditional has a lower stack for the same reach. Take a look at the geometry of the two versions and pick the one that suits you best.

    In this case it would be 50s or 55.

    5 mm lower stack for 50s.But i guess i'll check which suit me better, and i'll pick that one.

    It was important for me is there is any climbing, sprinting and stifness differences.. Since i can understund that in reality no difference, u'll pick based on geometry.

    And what about Dogma F8? Which one is better ride? Dogma F8 or C60? And why?
  • alex222alex222 Posts: 598
    I'd be shocked if you were able to tell any difference in stiffness between the two. Sounds like you prefer the look of the traditional so go for that one.
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    alex222 wrote:
    I'd be shocked if you were able to tell any difference in stiffness between the two. Sounds like you prefer the look of the traditional so go for that one.

    Ok. I decided to pick Colnago C60.

    One of the reasons is that in this moment i had a damaged Pinarello FP3 and having troubles to reapir it. I tried one CarbonDoctor (in Slovenia) which have nice reccomendation, but in reality he is more Jerk then Doctor (arogant, not replying on e-mails, non real price (when he finnally picked up the phone after 15 tries)...So in C60 design i like the possability to replace whole tube in the case of damage, so i dont want to have this troubles int he future if i go again with Pinarello.


    Now i'll need a help to find a proper size :) Hope u'll help me
  • fudgeyfudgey Posts: 854
    Good choice.
    How tall are you?

    I have a Colnago AC-R in 52S which is the equivalent of a 56cm frame as at 180cm tall that is what size they guide. I must have long legs and a short torso however as i have never been comfortable on it, i felt too stretched so ended up putting a short stem on it.
    I have recently bought a Colnago CX-Zero as a 'winter' bike, this one i got in a size 50S - 54cm equivalent and it feels so much more comfortable.
    I may be selling the AC-R soon and will replace with a smaller 50S frame.

    BUT that is me, you are of course different.

    sizing guide:

    https://www.evanscycles.com/help/bike-sizing-road
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,010
    I have an FP3 and have just built a C60 sloping geometry here;
    2113ea1.jpeg

    The FP3 handles like a dream with a few mods from standard including handbuilt wheels and different stem, bars and saddle. I am thinking of upgrading the groupset maybe next year to 11sp Shimano from the 10sp Campagnolo. I have had many happy times on it.

    The C60 is a 'now or never' dream bike. I had posters of Colnagos on my bedroom wall as a 14 year old and took the plunge late last year, doing a great deal with the euro exchange rate at 1.4 to the pound!

    Mine is di2 and hydraulic disc and I have to say, so far it has been a dream to ride. Is it any faster than my FP3? Probably not as I am the same engine! But it handles beautifully and the di2 is sublime compared to the Chorus/ Centaur 10sp mix which has always been a little troublesome.

    I love the Art Deco colour scheme and I have specced every single part myself so it really is what I wanted. Does it go up hills any faster? No. I will be getting some low profile rimmed handbuilt wheels for climbing and windy days however, but it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it and every cyclist wants to chat about it and have a good gander at cafe stops! It is a thing of beauty in my opinion and I am sure there will be plenty of nay sayers with comments about rim brakes and Campagnolo etc etc but each to their own...

    Oh, and p.s. My FP3 is a 56cm frame, which is actually a fraction too big and given the chance to buy again I would go for a 55cm frame. However, with shorter reach bars and a 110mm stem I got the fit to be fine. I am 5'11". The C60 is a 52s geometry and I have got exactly the same reach/ drop etc as the FP3 with no spacers under the stem (C60 head tube is a little longer).

    Here is the FP3

    fd45ea5.jpg
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    edited March 2016
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    I have an FP3 and have just built a C60 sloping geometry here;
    2113ea1.jpeg

    The FP3 handles like a dream with a few mods from standard including handbuilt wheels and different stem, bars and saddle. I am thinking of upgrading the groupset maybe next year to 11sp Shimano from the 10sp Campagnolo. I have had many happy times on it.

    The C60 is a 'now or never' dream bike. I had posters of Colnagos on my bedroom wall as a 14 year old and took the plunge late last year, doing a great deal with the euro exchange rate at 1.4 to the pound!

    Mine is di2 and hydraulic disc and I have to say, so far it has been a dream to ride. Is it any faster than my FP3? Probably not as I am the same engine! But it handles beautifully and the di2 is sublime compared to the Chorus/ Centaur 10sp mix which has always been a little troublesome.

    I love the Art Deco colour scheme and I have specced every single part myself so it really is what I wanted. Does it go up hills any faster? No. I will be getting some low profile rimmed handbuilt wheels for climbing and windy days however, but it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it and every cyclist wants to chat about it and have a good gander at cafe stops! It is a thing of beauty in my opinion and I am sure there will be plenty of nay sayers with comments about rim brakes and Campagnolo etc etc but each to their own...

    Oh, and p.s. My FP3 is a 56cm frame, which is actually a fraction too big and given the chance to buy again I would go for a 55cm frame. However, with shorter reach bars and a 110mm stem I got the fit to be fine. I am 5'11". The C60 is a 52s geometry and I have got exactly the same reach/ drop etc as the FP3 with no spacers under the stem (C60 head tube is a little longer).

    Here is the FP3

    fd45ea5.jpg

    Thanks for ur reply, very helpfull to me

    Could u please tell me what is ur inseam?

    Im in process of choosing the size, so i want to compare this

    As i can see u see upgrade in ride based on components and wheels, but having feeling that u didnt notice any ride improvements based on frame? (Like stiffer, better handling, beter for climbing or sprinting..>)

    I also upgraded Wheelset on my FP3 and very big difference (i have Shamal Ultra now, very nice wheelset). Also i have Campagnolo Veloce (very satisfied how it works), and now bought a new groupset Campagnolo Record 2 x 11, but im keeping this for a new frame.

    And i really hope that i'll get some upgrade in riding based on frame, not just look :)

    BTW, u have great bikes.. I really like them
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    fudgey wrote:
    Good choice.
    How tall are you?

    I have a Colnago AC-R in 52S which is the equivalent of a 56cm frame as at 180cm tall that is what size they guide. I must have long legs and a short torso however as i have never been comfortable on it, i felt too stretched so ended up putting a short stem on it.
    I have recently bought a Colnago CX-Zero as a 'winter' bike, this one i got in a size 50S - 54cm equivalent and it feels so much more comfortable.
    I may be selling the AC-R soon and will replace with a smaller 50S frame.

    BUT that is me, you are of course different.

    sizing guide:

    https://www.evanscycles.com/help/bike-sizing-road


    Im 175cm, 82-83 cm inseam, but very long femur. In this moment riding a Pinarello 53 cm (54.5 top tube), with 110cm stem , and handlebar which is 42 c-c, 80mm reach, 125 mm drop. Under the stem i have one spacer of 1 cm.

    My problem is long femur, which put me all the way back if i want to have KNOPS position (KneeOverPedalAxle). Even like this my knee is a bit front of pedal axle.

    Im trying to decide which size is better for me.. 50s or 55

    Greetings
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,010
    edited March 2016
    I'm a 33" inside leg...

    Can't say the ride is an upgrade from the frame/ forks point of view, both extremely competent frames providing a great ride and sure footed handling. Both are stiff when climbing, I found I got flex in the cheap Most wheels that came with the Pinarello and didn't like the ergo bend handlebars (as in the picture) but handbuilt wheels with H Plus Son rims on Hope hubs with a higher spoke count transformed the ride.

    The Most chainset with TA Spcialities rings never shifted great with the Centaur front mech and the Centaur shifters circa 2009 had the well documented problems of the barrel not holding the nipple securely and allowing it to foul on the body causing erratic rear shifting. I had these rebuilt with the upgraded replacement barrel which helped.

    I changed the calipers to Chorus which were a slight improvement with decent pads and the ride was very good, just the shifting at the front which I have never been happy with despite it all being correctly adjusted. I think it is the replacement rings and their 'timing' which leads to sloppy shifting (never really clean going from small to big ring and occasionally dropping off the inner ring, even when correctly set up).

    So the Colnago has improved on all these areas, which is down to component choices and me getting exactly what I want. The di2 is absolutely sublime and front shifting immediate and almost silent. Had one scary moment descending Winnats Pass in a line of cars where I had no choice but to ride the brakes. I don't think they were fully bedded in and I got some fade....not had it since.

    The frames feel very similar when climbing and descending at high speed is also very similar - sure footed and predictable and I have every confidence in really throwing both bikes into fast corners. No speed wobbles.

    What I have noticed is that the FP3 is simple to ride no handed and the C60 is a little harder. I think this may be the deep section rims on the C60 as opposed to the low profile rims on the FP3 (not the wheels in the picture).

    Hope this all helps.

    PP
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    I'm a 33" inside leg...

    PP

    Interesting.. im about 82cm 32.2", but have very long femur. On this 52s, did u reached KNOPS position (KneeOverPedalAxle)? And if u do, in what position is ur saddle in term fore-aft

    And please if u can put more details about ride difference FP3 vs C60, based on frame


    Thanks a lot

    Darko
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,010
    3Pio wrote:
    Interesting.. im about 82cm 32.2", but have very long femur. On this 52s, did u reached KNOPS position (KneeOverPedalAxle)? And if u do, in what position is ur saddle in term fore-aft

    Thanks a lot

    Darko

    Well, I did achieve KOP but the measurements are irrelevant as it depends on crank length, seatpost layback and saddle brand and model. Have you considered getting a fitting at a competent bike shop? I had one at a Colnago dealer who sized me to the 52s but said he couldn't get the paint scheme I wanted, so I never bought it from him but offered to pay for the fit which he declined...

    PP
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    3Pio wrote:
    Interesting.. im about 82cm 32.2", but have very long femur. On this 52s, did u reached KNOPS position (KneeOverPedalAxle)? And if u do, in what position is ur saddle in term fore-aft

    Thanks a lot

    Darko

    Well, I did achieve KOP but the measurements are irrelevant as it depends on crank length, seatpost layback and saddle brand and model. Have you considered getting a fitting at a competent bike shop? I had one at a Colnago dealer who sized me to the 52s but said he couldn't get the paint scheme I wanted, so I never bought it from him but offered to pay for the fit which he declined...

    PP

    I tried, but i didnt get proper fit. And my buying C60 1000 km from my place of living (the nearest Colnago Dealer).

    Seatpost is 25mm (i'll use Fizik Cyrano R1 or Stock Colnago, but both of them are 25mm)

    Crank Length is 172.5mm (im thinking should i go for 170mm which seem that is better for my inseam and height, if we dont consider longer femur then average for my dimensions.)

    And also i need opinion about this.. In many tables my inseam-height reccomendation is 170mm. But if i switch to 170mm considering my long Femur i'll be even more front compared to pedal axle. So 170mm or 172.5mm?

    And 50s vs 55? On 55 more chance to be near KOPS, but maybe a bit on bigger size in the front part. On 50s maybe better size in front part, but maybe not enough big in rear end to be closer to KOPS
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,010
    3Pio wrote:
    I tried, but i didnt get proper fit. And my buying C60 1000 km from my place of living (the nearest Colnago Dealer).

    Seatpost is 25mm (i'll use Fizik Cyrano R1 or Stock Colnago, but both of them are 25mm)

    Crank Length is 172.5mm (im thinking should i go for 170mm which seem that is better for my inseam and height, if we dont consider longer femur then average for my dimensions.)

    And also i need opinion about this.. In many tables my inseam-height reccomendation is 170mm. But if i switch to 170mm considering my long Femur i'll be even more front compared to pedal axle. So 170mm or 172.5mm?

    And 50s vs 55? On 55 more chance to be near KOPS, but maybe a bit on bigger size in the front part. On 50s maybe better size in front part, but maybe not enough big in rear end to be closer to KOPS

    Well, I can't give you specific advice about your particular case over the internet, and any advice is just an opinion, not a factual definitive!

    But what you need to consider is your knee bend angle at top of the pedal stroke as well as at the bottom to ensure efficient pedalling. Too long cranks will mean that angle is too tight at the top of the stroke and you will lose power/ efficiency.

    I am sure as with all of us buying off the peg there will have to be some sort of compromise but you should be able to get KOPS with the right combination of frame size, seatpost layback and saddle choice. I would guess that what is of most importance to you is to ensure the reach is correct if you have to lay back the post/ saddle a lot, so you need to see what reach you can get with a stem/ bar choice combination with frame size.

    What you need to do is get the ideal size, so take your current bike and start from there. If you haven't got KOPS see where you would have to put the saddle to achieve it and start taking measurements from there. Once you know ideal layback you can measure from bottom bracket to where you sit in the saddle and then work out correct reach and drop to bars from there. If you draw if out to scale using the geometry figures for your chosen C60 frame you should be able to work out what is the closest frame size that will allow you to achieve it.

    The problem with going for a smaller frame due to the reach (due to your longer femur requiring larger set back) is that the saddle to bar drop may need more spacers to achieve, but like I said previously, the Colnago head tube is a little taller than the FP3 so I have no spacers and achieved (with just the taller top cap) the same drop as with the top cap and a 10mm spacer on the FP3 (total stack of about 20mm).

    Where abouts are you? I am guessing not in the UK? I could help you with the measurements if you came over.

    Hope this is helpful.

    PP
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42

    What you need to do is get the ideal size, so take your current bike and start from there. If you haven't got KOPS see where you would have to put the saddle to achieve it and start taking measurements from there. Once you know ideal layback you can measure from bottom bracket to where you sit in the saddle and then work out correct reach and drop to bars from there. If you draw if out to scale using the geometry figures for your chosen C60 frame you should be able to work out what is the closest frame size that will allow you to achieve it.

    The problem with going for a smaller frame due to the reach (due to your longer femur requiring larger set back) is that the saddle to bar drop may need more spacers to achieve, but like I said previously, the Colnago head tube is a little taller than the FP3 so I have no spacers and achieved (with just the taller top cap) the same drop as with the top cap and a 10mm spacer on the FP3 (total stack of about 20mm).

    Where abouts are you? I am guessing not in the UK? I could help you with the measurements if you came over.

    Hope this is helpful.

    PP

    Thanks a lot for ur kind offer, but im not in UK :(.

    The 50s and 55 have almost the same HeadTube (50s 145mm, 55 149mm, but they have the same stack), the main difference is in top tube (54 cm for 50s and 54.5 for 55).In comparation my FP3 is 144 mm (headtube and 54.5 cm top tube)

    Also 55 have steeper seatpost angle (73.57 deg) vs (74 deg) of 50s, and i have 3 mm more in rear part of the top tube (better for my long femur).

    If u are willing to help me, maybe i can send the pictures on my FP3 in this moment (53 cm, very similar to 55 cm C60), so maybe this way it can work out :)

    Thanks again
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    3Pio wrote:

    What you need to do is get the ideal size, so take your current bike and start from there. If you haven't got KOPS see where you would have to put the saddle to achieve it and start taking measurements from there. Once you know ideal layback you can measure from bottom bracket to where you sit in the saddle and then work out correct reach and drop to bars from there. If you draw if out to scale using the geometry figures for your chosen C60 frame you should be able to work out what is the closest frame size that will allow you to achieve it.

    The problem with going for a smaller frame due to the reach (due to your longer femur requiring larger set back) is that the saddle to bar drop may need more spacers to achieve, but like I said previously, the Colnago head tube is a little taller than the FP3 so I have no spacers and achieved (with just the taller top cap) the same drop as with the top cap and a 10mm spacer on the FP3 (total stack of about 20mm).

    Where abouts are you? I am guessing not in the UK? I could help you with the measurements if you came over.

    Hope this is helpful.

    PP

    Thanks a lot for ur kind offer, but im not in UK :(.

    The 50s and 55 have almost the same HeadTube (50s 145mm, 55 149mm, but they have the same stack), the main difference is in top tube (54 cm for 50s and 54.5 for 55).In comparation my FP3 is 144 mm headtube (and on this i have only 1 spacer with 1cm height) and 54.5 cm top tube.

    Also 55 have steeper seatpost angle (73.57 deg) vs (74 deg) of 50s, and i have 3 mm more in rear part of the top tube (better for my long femur).

    If u are willing to help me, maybe i can send the pictures on my position on FP3 in this moment (53 cm, very similar to 55 cm C60), so maybe this way it can work out :)

    Thanks again
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    Im analyzing C60 geometry chart http://colnago.com/geometry-c60-2/?lang=en

    And specialy considering my long femur the Scs - Seat cluster offset

    But as i can see on sloping sizes they measure this lower (as SeatTube is lower), then real (if we considering the Virtual Length of SeatTube), so it's not rellevant to compare sloping vs traditional.

    Can someone translate this Scs on 50S (131mm), in Virtual Scs Length? (To be comparable with 55 trad which is 149mm)

    Thanks
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    Ok.Im sending u a pictures of my self on Pinarello Fp3 53 cm size.

    crankset: 172.5 mm

    Handlebar: 42cm c-c (125mm drop, 80 mm reach)

    Stem: 110mm , -6 deg

    Seatpost with 25 mm setback

    I gain some weight during last few months (i had a lot of work and a lot of sitting in front of the computer, and also had some injuries so not able to ride). I measure today my self, and i gain 13 pounds of weight since November (even bigger reason now to be back on bike as soon as possible). Im telling this in term of my normal flexibility.

    The first position, is the position that i actually ride on this bike.

    But also when i put the heels on the pedals, and pedaling backwards, i found out that there is hip rocking, so probably i have seat higher then it should be (i ride like this last few months for sure, maybe more). Probably im doing this to compensate somehow with my long femurs and to be as close for KOPS as possible (i didnt looking for KOPS. I just adjusted the position that its ok for riding, and after that checking all the measurments. Still, i cant say this is ideal position. Specialy When im climbing i can feel that something is not ideal.Another possability of Hip Rocking is that maybe becouse i gain weight and because of a lot of sitting in front of comp, i lost some of flexibility.

    Ok, pictures of that position:

    1. Stem Spacers XwTPW8M.jpg

    f07uKof.jpg

    2. Saddle Height

    0CY7m6p.jpg

    Pbpf43i.jpg

    3. Saddle Fore-Aft

    VZb3DqV.jpg

    4. Knee Over Pedal Axle

    GfYMenj.jpg

    SpdGoNE.jpg

    C4OgCgy.jpg

    5. Side Pictures

    http://imgur.com/a/B0iqr


    Then there is Second Position that i tried. In this position tried to reduce Saddle Hieght until there were not anymore Hip Rocking while pedaling backwards, Heels on pedals. This is not position i ride, but tried to adjust the saddle height based on NoHipRocking


    I didnt changed Spacers under the stem, just Saddle Height, and tried to put Saddle even more front (in the position where is not allowed becouse im passing Stop Mark on the Saddle Rails)

    So here it is:

    1. Saddle Height

    http://imgur.com/a/mvZO0


    2. Knee Over Pedal

    http://imgur.com/a/XIyWQ

    3. Saddle ForeAft

    bJX3BNQ.jpg

    4. SideView

    http://imgur.com/a/OR5DL



    So again, this second position is not the position i ride in real life. I tried to put saddle down until there is no HipRocking (which maybe in the first position was becouse i lost some flexibility in last months, or maybe i used of riding with too high saddle to compensate for KOPS).


    Based on this pictures (u get better idea now i guess)

    What do u think its based geometry/size suited for my self:


    1. Pinarello Dogma F8 51.5 cm

    2. Pinarello Dogma F8 53 cm

    3. Colnago C60 trad 53 cm

    4. Colnago C60 50S

    5. Colnago C60 55 Trad (which is very similar as i can see to Fp3 53 cm that i ride now )


    And should i stay on 172.5 crankset lenght, or maybe to switch to 170 ?

    Thanks a lot. Please share ur opinions, since i want to finnaly choose the right one.
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,010
    Hi again

    What you need is to find your ideal position on your current FP3. Your long femurs are definitely going to cause you to have to compromise in some way as you look quite stretched out on the second setup with the saddle so far back to achieve KOPS.

    I would highly recommend getting a proper bike fit done with something like a RETUL fitter so that you can find that compromise and then compare geometry with the C60 charts to find the closest fit. I would guess at a 50s, but for the amount of money the frame will cost a proper bike fit (including travel costs) would be money well spent.

    Stack and reach measurements can be useful once you have your position sorted in helping with comparisons. Take a good read of this thread viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12951776 especially post 3 by neeb which links to a calculator...

    Good luck.

    PP
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Hi again

    What you need is to find your ideal position on your current FP3. Your long femurs are definitely going to cause you to have to compromise in some way as you look quite stretched out on the second setup with the saddle so far back to achieve KOPS.

    I would highly recommend getting a proper bike fit done with something like a RETUL fitter so that you can find that compromise and then compare geometry with the C60 charts to find the closest fit. I would guess at a 50s, but for the amount of money the frame will cost a proper bike fit (including travel costs) would be money well spent.

    Stack and reach measurements can be useful once you have your position sorted in helping with comparisons. Take a good read of this thread viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12951776 especially post 3 by neeb which links to a calculator...

    Good luck.

    PP

    So if it look like 50S would be the proper compromise, then better to go for a Dogma F8 in 51.5, since SeatTube angle is 73.7 Deg on Dogma, vs 74 on 50S.

    But from other side 51.5 Dogma would be 125mm headtube and stack 527 mm vs 145mm head ht and stack of 547mm on 50s

    So seem that even angle on 51.5 Dogma would be better for long femur, i have a problems with low stack (ok, with enough spacers it can be sorted out, but it'll look ugly), and 5mm less top tube.

    Im thinking to go for a Specialized Body Geometry Bike Fit, which is close to my place of living, so trying with that results to analyze Dogma or C60 sizing.

    Is this good idea? Od Specialized Body Geomety Fitting would be just for Specialized bikes?

    p.s Does someone now exactl numbers for BB drop and Head Tube Angle on Colnago C60 in 50s and 55?
  • FatTedFatTed Posts: 1,205
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Hi again

    What you need is to find your ideal position on your current FP3. Your long femurs are definitely going to cause you to have to compromise in some way as you look quite stretched out on the second setup with the saddle so far back to achieve KOPS.

    I would highly recommend getting a proper bike fit done with something like a RETUL fitter so that you can find that compromise and then compare geometry with the C60 charts to find the closest fit. I would guess at a 50s, but for the amount of money the frame will cost a proper bike fit (including travel costs) would be money well spent.

    Stack and reach measurements can be useful once you have your position sorted in helping with comparisons. Take a good read of this thread viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12951776 especially post 3 by neeb which links to a calculator...

    Good luck.

    PP
    or you could do it the other way around, just use the RETUL bike and set it up according to the geometry of the bikes you like and see which is closer to what you want.
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    Ok, at least im sure that im getting C60 :) (as much im looking the pictures, more i like it.In same time, as much i look pictures of Dogma F8, i more dislike it :) )

    This days i decided to ignore KOPS and to adjust my self by feel on bike. I tried this on my Bianchi Pista Sei Giorni (which i use for city transport), and which have very step seat post tube angle (75.5 deg). Of Course my knees are totaly in front of pedal axle, but this time im not trying to reach that at all.. What i tried is to adjust by feel the best position, and to have best balance (in same time to be in position for as much power as possible). I found out that my saddle were 2cm higher then what i needed, and my saddle was with wrong angle. I put the saddle in totaly flat position, and lower the saddle, unil i feel comofortable. All of the sudden, i got very comfortable position, with ideal reach, and position for very powerfull sprint. Just to mention that crankset on this bike is 165mm.

    After i ride this position for few days, and insuring my self that is right one, i bought a goniometer, and measured my leg angle in down positon of the pedals. Im getting 139 degrees, which seem to be like in ideal. On this bike i have BullHorn, and 100 mm stem, and perfect reach. Also i feel that i really control the bike, and perfectly centered balance.

    So i'll try to do the same on my Pinarello, ignoring the KOPS and trying to reach this kind of balance, and i'll adjust Saddle height to get 135-140 deg Leg Angle, becouse something tell me that would be the proper adjusting of the saddle height.


    Deffinitly want to do the bike Fitting (Specialized Bogy Geometry), but im thinking should i do it right now (if it can help me to choose the correct size i'll do it), or better to do it when i get a new frame (if its not a bit help right now for choosing the right frame size).

    Greetings
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,515
    These kind of posts make as much sense as someone asking a stranger on the street "What do you think I should eat, this apple, an orange, or a peach?"
  • 3Pio3Pio Posts: 42
    dennisn wrote:
    These kind of posts make as much sense as someone asking a stranger on the street "What do you think I should eat, this apple, an orange, or a peach?"


    Now imagine that u never ever had a chance to try and apple, orange and peach, and have a budget only for one of them, and if u get wrong it would be hard to sell .

    But there is a stranger who know how they taste, and u ask him about their taste. If u never ever eat them, and if stranger that know how they taste and is willing to provide details about that, can help a little to choose what is biggest chance to eat what u really like in that moment.Of course even that can provide wrong info based on personal taste, but still bigger chance to pick properly.

    Of course it would be much easier if i can try it and decided it what is my taste. But not possible in this case..So thats why are this kind of threads

    Anyway Thanks for reply.. And since i decided for C60, please if u can provide more details about sizing do it..

    For example Questions that i'll like to be answered (and i'll be very thankfull)

    1. Please translade Scs from Sloping to real values (to be able to compare this to trad geometry)

    2. What is the HeadTube Angle of 50s and 55? (i found some values, but not sure that they are correct)

    3. Standover Height for 55 trad?

    4.Cant find pictures of 55 trad C60 on the net.If u can send me links or pics it would be very helpfull

    Of course If u dont have anything useful to provide, anyway thanks for watching this thread...
  • fudgeyfudgey Posts: 854
    How is your Italian?
    Geo measurements here might be of use?

    http://colnago.com/geometry-c60/
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
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