Gravel anyone?

Devastazione2

Gave up mtb and now focused solely on my road bike. Since I've picked up roadbiking 4 years ago I've noticed a steady decline in road conditions,on top of that a lot of fireroads here lead to stunning mountains and beaches. Riding my 2015 Tarmac sworks and loving it,but everytime I want to take side roads ( not gravel) the tarmac looks and feels like a fucking cheese grater. And so here it is my bike taking a beat. I'm a heavy rider too ( 85kg). So,enough of an excuse to buy a gravel bike ? I'm a short and fast type of ride guy,I wonder if a gravel bike can be quick too... :roll:

kajjal

You could try bigger tyres, this makes a huge difference.

Coming from mountain biking i wanted a bike to ride on / off road, be smooth and have hydraulic brakes. I am very tall, about 100kg and found rim brakes very poor.

Ended up buying a Diverge which has been good on and off road. On smoother trails it is faster than my xc mountain bike. As trails get rougher it beats you up like an early 1990's mountain bike. Also it is a little slower up hill than a normal road bike but similar on the flat and faster downhill. Similar bikes are available.

Monty Dog

Simply put, speed is down to the rider - I finished top-10 in a 100 mile gravel race on my fatbike beating lots of guys on CX bikes and MTBs. I run 40mm tyres on my CX bike for ripping MTB trails - I've been riding 'gravel' for years...

meanredspider

I bought a Jamis Renegade Elite because, like the OP, lots of fire roads near me in Scotland and, not surprisingly, it's perfect for these. I also use it on my commute as the roads are very dirty here in Wilts and pretty broken up too - it's great for that. I'm running Schwalbe S-One tubeless now and they are impressively quick and comfortable. I'm over 90kg at the mo. I don't think there's a noticeable difference between it and the Foil on general rides. The Foil will be quicker at the limit but not as comfortable and I'm a lot less fussy about road surface conditions on the Jamis.

kajjal

Monty Dog wrote:

Simply put, speed is down to the rider - I finished top-10 in a 100 mile gravel race on my fatbike beating lots of guys on CX bikes and MTBs. I run 40mm tyres on my CX bike for ripping MTB trails - I've been riding 'gravel' for years...

Wouldn't you have been faster on a cx or gravel bike than your fat bike ?

I found until the going gets a bit rougher off road my gravel bike is noticeably faster than my xc mountain bike.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

I'm still very new to the fatbike world, just over 4 weeks, loving it so far.

Speed was not my priority by a long stretch, it was confidence on the roads after my Tricross RTA; traction; hydraulic brakes; comfort; fun; something different to bikes I've had before.

But for cyclists fitter and in better physical shape than me, I don't see why someone could not ride quick on a fatbike, winter months on a fatbike could be great alternative training for road bike use in the other seasons.

I was very close to buying a gravel bike (Pinnacle Arkose SIngespeed/2 2015), but my old lower back injury seems to give me grief far more regularly these days and I'd hate to buy my first bike for over five years and not to ride it due to the extra strain of a race bike geometry.

AK_jnr

Complete newbie when it comes to CX or gravel bikes. What exactly can I do offroad on a CX bike? Or what cant I do, might be easier? As an example in the winter if its icy I like to take the MTB out around the local woods. Nothing too technical as im not very good but a mixture of some muddy trails, gravel etc. I suppose rough or with loads of roots is out of bounds?

Devastazione2

Kajjal wrote:

You could try bigger tyres, this makes a huge difference.

Coming from mountain biking i wanted a bike to ride on / off road, be smooth and have hydraulic brakes. I am very tall, about 100kg and found rim brakes very poor.

Ended up buying a Diverge which has been good on and off road. On smoother trails it is faster than my xc mountain bike. As trails get rougher it beats you up like an early 1990's mountain bike. Also it is a little slower up hill than a normal road bike but similar on the flat and faster downhill. Similar bikes are available.

The Diverge is actually the bike I'm looking at. Letting go a Tarmac sworks it tough,maybe I should keep both. It seems tho that when you add a gravel bike suddendly all other bikes start to collect dust.

ugo.santalucia

Devastazione2 wrote:

I'm a heavy rider too ( 85kg). So,enough of an excuse to buy a gravel bike ? I'm a short and fast type of ride guy,I wonder if a gravel bike can be quick too... :roll:

No offence, but for as long as you stay short and heavy, I would say the speed of the bike will never be the limiting factor.
As for your question, CX or Gravel bike, both very good, I prefer the former, more choice, more competitive market, more aggressive geometry... gravel bikes seem to be an overpriced version of the same thing with a longer head tube.
That said, Planet X offer some very reasonably priced options in carbon + hydro brakes.

1 x 11 is the way to go for an off road bike, but if you want something more versatile, then the traditional 36 x 46 is the best of both worlds

fenix

AK a cross sounds fine for what you want. For tree roots though you'd want bigger tyres so stick with the mtb for that. Cross bikes are great.

meanredspider

Personally, I don't like the geometry of CX - especially the higher BB - nor do I like the gearing: it's a very narrow band - 46 being too short and 36 too long - it's ideal, I'm sure, for CX where the top speeds are limited and riders tend to carry their bike up steeper slopes. I've found my gravel bike ideal for gravel and roads and even MTB singletrack. It's obviously a personal choice based upon need. I also don't think the gravel bikes are overpriced - mine is a carbon frame, with Ultegra and hydraulic discs and a 1450g tubeless wheelset, £70 of tyres etc and cost exactly what I'd expect to pay for a similar road bike. Or CX for that matter.

Devastazione2

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Devastazione2 wrote:

I'm a heavy rider too ( 85kg). So,enough of an excuse to buy a gravel bike ? I'm a short and fast type of ride guy,I wonder if a gravel bike can be quick too... :roll:

No offence, but for as long as you stay short and heavy, I would say the speed of the bike will never be the limiting factor.

Not taken. Care to elaborate ? I'm always open to advices.

Of course moving on a gravel bike would open up more kms ahead at a more mellow speed,but I need a fast machine at least on the downhill. I would assume that I would be faster than on my road bike at least when the tarmac gets ugly. Right now with a 85 kgs toll and full carbon wheels I tend to slow down a lot and even end up skipping ugliest roads for that. My area has a beautiful weather year round and zero traffic in winter.

kajjal

AK_jnr wrote:

Complete newbie when it comes to CX or gravel bikes. What exactly can I do offroad on a CX bike? Or what cant I do, might be easier? As an example in the winter if its icy I like to take the MTB out around the local woods. Nothing too technical as im not very good but a mixture of some muddy trails, gravel etc. I suppose rough or with loads of roots is out of bounds?

Roughly speaking a mountain bike is more manoeuvrable and handles tight single track and rough / testing trails a lot better. A CX or gravel bike is faster on less technical , smoother, straighter trails like fire roads. Also they are a lot faster on the road and up hills.

kajjal

Devastazione2 wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

You could try bigger tyres, this makes a huge difference.

Coming from mountain biking i wanted a bike to ride on / off road, be smooth and have hydraulic brakes. I am very tall, about 100kg and found rim brakes very poor.

Ended up buying a Diverge which has been good on and off road. On smoother trails it is faster than my xc mountain bike. As trails get rougher it beats you up like an early 1990's mountain bike. Also it is a little slower up hill than a normal road bike but similar on the flat and faster downhill. Similar bikes are available.

The Diverge is actually the bike I'm looking at. Letting go a Tarmac sworks it tough,maybe I should keep both. It seems tho that when you add a gravel bike suddendly all other bikes start to collect dust.

I have not touched my road bike since I got mine but kept both just in case. I bought the Diverge because being tall it fitted me very well and the spec was exactly what I wanted but a little pricey. Once the trails dry out the mountain bike will be my main bike again but the diverge will get more use in the summer than a road bike did.

kajjal

Devastazione2 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Devastazione2 wrote:

I'm a heavy rider too ( 85kg). So,enough of an excuse to buy a gravel bike ? I'm a short and fast type of ride guy,I wonder if a gravel bike can be quick too... :roll:

No offence, but for as long as you stay short and heavy, I would say the speed of the bike will never be the limiting factor.

Not taken. Care to elaborate ? I'm always open to advices.

Of course moving on a gravel bike would open up more kms ahead at a more mellow speed,but I need a fast machine at least on the downhill. I would assume that I would be faster than on my road bike at least when the tarmac gets ugly. Right now with a 85 kgs toll and full carbon wheels I tend to slow down a lot and even end up skipping ugliest roads for that. My area has a beautiful weather year round and zero traffic in winter.

I found the smoothness and hydraulic disc brakes mean I go downhill a lot faster on road. My downhill times in Strava are much faster on the Diverge than at any time of the year on my Rim braked road bike. Knowing I can stop very quickly and not getting beaten up by the road makes a big difference for me. Just depends what you want from a bike.

tangled_metal

I've done gravel tracks in the lakes before on a PlanetX London Road bike. Possibly similar bike to what the OP is considering. I've also done the odd rocky trails too. Mostly it's roads, especially truly atrocious and dangerously potholed ones, and easier gravel trails. The rocky trails were less strain than the roads I commute on TBH. I'm riding on 37s and it's got a degree of comfort but it's slower than my ancient steel road bike running 23s. Part of this speed difference is my reduced fitness but I think there's a lot of speed lost due to the bike. Not an issue for me off road but on road it's annoying. Mind you my old skinny tyred road bike was shaken to near destruction on the local roads. Used to need it's wheels truing every 2 to 3 weeks. My current bike, I think it fits into gravel bike category, has taken the same roads for nearly a year without serious damage.

ddraver

If you can find it on Youtube, there is a Cross bike v gravel video done by a US guy who goes through the differences in really quite nerdy detail and explains the effects quite well.

The other thing is to remember that "gravel" is a term that came out of the US where they do these mad 300 mile events on gravel roads - we simply don't have that over here so the really long low slack geometry they need may not be entirely appropriate for the blasting round the shorter muddy woods/firetracks we have here. So perhaps a CX bike is more suitable..?

fenix

tm my cross bike with Road wheels is pretty much as fast as my road bike. Just change the tyres and it'll be as fast. Weight doesn't make much difference.

Devastazione2

CX bike not an option,I've got my Tarmac only recently professionally fitted and the bike racey personality came out. Now don't get me wrong,the Tarmac is still a very comfortable bike but now I can feel each road bump and ding a lot more while of course spinning a lot more efficiently. Gravel bikes seems a comfortable option while still a speedy and efficient bike on the flat ( ? ). Not going to mount cx tires anytime soon and I may throw in some carbon rims.

ddraver

What is is about a CX bike specifically..?

I mean a Ridley fair enough but the US Cross bikes (Cruxx, Domane for example) are a lot closer to Gravel already.

Devastazione2

ddraver wrote:

What is is about a CX bike specifically..?

I mean a Ridley fair enough but the US Cross bikes (Cruxx, Domane for example) are a lot closer to Gravel already.

Cruxx is a Tarmac with fat tires,the Domane is still a road bike,pretty much like the Roubaix,but not a bike I would beat the crap out on a fire road or throw in a bush while I take a pee..

AK_jnr

Kajjal wrote:

AK_jnr wrote:

Complete newbie when it comes to CX or gravel bikes. What exactly can I do offroad on a CX bike? Or what cant I do, might be easier? As an example in the winter if its icy I like to take the MTB out around the local woods. Nothing too technical as im not very good but a mixture of some muddy trails, gravel etc. I suppose rough or with loads of roots is out of bounds?

Roughly speaking a mountain bike is more manoeuvrable and handles tight single track and rough / testing trails a lot better. A CX or gravel bike is faster on less technical , smoother, straighter trails like fire roads. Also they are a lot faster on the road and up hills.

Fenix wrote:

AK a cross sounds fine for what you want. For tree roots though you'd want bigger tyres so stick with the mtb for that. Cross bikes are great.

Thanks for the help. Its something I will look into when funds permit. I like the idea of some long days messing around on and off road locally.

ddraver

Devastazione2 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

What is is about a CX bike specifically..?

I mean a Ridley fair enough but the US Cross bikes (Cruxx, Domane for example) are a lot closer to Gravel already.

Cruxx is a Tarmac with fat tires,the Domane is still a road bike,pretty much like the Roubaix,but not a bike I would beat the crap out on a fire road or throw in a bush while I take a pee..

Yes, I meant the Boone soz

a Tarmac with fat tyres sounds like exactly what you need no?

roger_merriman

meanredspider wrote:

Personally, I don't like the geometry of CX - especially the higher BB - nor do I like the gearing: it's a very narrow band - 46 being too short and 36 too long - it's ideal, I'm sure, for CX where the top speeds are limited and riders tend to carry their bike up steeper slopes. I've found my gravel bike ideal for gravel and roads and even MTB singletrack. It's obviously a personal choice based upon need. I also don't think the gravel bikes are overpriced - mine is a carbon frame, with Ultegra and hydraulic discs and a 1450g tubeless wheelset, £70 of tyres etc and cost exactly what I'd expect to pay for a similar road bike. Or CX for that matter.

My hunch is the higher end CX bikes are on the whole more tailored for the race lot hence rather narrower gear ratios, at lower price points, bikes tend to have 34/50 etc I have a very budget CX bike has 28/38/48 handy for steep off road climbs etc.

clearly depends on use, I ride my CX over roads/bridleways. so a wider range is handy others may not and may race etc.

Elfed

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Devastazione2 wrote:

I'm a heavy rider too ( 85kg). So,enough of an excuse to buy a gravel bike ? I'm a short and fast type of ride guy,I wonder if a gravel bike can be quick too... :roll:

No offence, but for as long as you stay short and heavy, I would say the speed of the bike will never be the limiting factor.
As for your question, CX or Gravel bike, both very good, I prefer the former, more choice, more competitive market, more aggressive geometry... gravel bikes seem to be an overpriced version of the same thing with a longer head tube.
That said, Planet X offer some very reasonably priced options in carbon + hydro brakes.

1 x 11 is the way to go for an off road bike, but if you want something more versatile, then the traditional 36 x 46 is the best of both worlds

I think he meant short length rides not short in stature.

ugo.santalucia

Yep, I got that afterwards

97th choice

I've converted my cx bike to a gravel bike for the dirty reiver event. Stuck an 11-32 on it and some schwalbe g-ones. Great thing is it can go back to being a cx bike afterwards

BikeRadarAdmin

I'm heading up to Dirty Reiver too. Using a Raleigh Roker for the event.

TBH it's my first gravel race, so I haven't got too much to contribute on the equipment front!

97th choice

joshjevans wrote:

I'm heading up to Dirty Reiver too. Using a Raleigh Roker for the event.

TBH it's my first gravel race, so I haven't got too much to contribute on the equipment front!

Nice, I'd go tubeless if you haven't already but a bike like that doesn't need anything else!

BikeRadarAdmin

Sweet, nice one 97th choice!

ovi

ddraver wrote:

If you can find it on Youtube, there is a Cross bike v gravel video done by a US guy who goes through the differences in really quite nerdy detail and explains the effects quite well.

The other thing is to remember that "gravel" is a term that came out of the US where they do these mad 300 mile events on gravel roads - we simply don't have that over here so the really long low slack geometry they need may not be entirely appropriate for the blasting round the shorter muddy woods/firetracks we have here. So perhaps a CX bike is more suitable..?

This could be the guy:
https://twitter.com/clintgibbs/media