New qualifying rules in F1

bianchimoon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35723676
I've never heard such nonsense from a driver, Qualifying was as boring as ****, this will make it more interesting without a doubt, drivers will have to go out and stay out to get through, they will have to push harder earlier so tyres will degrade making for an unpredictable end to each session. Hamilton, like other drivers just want to stay in their comfort zone with fresh tyres for a one fast lap run at the end of each session. As for saying fans will be confused!!!, It's not F1 engineering, someone gets knocked out every 90 seconds in second part of the qualifying. :roll:

nicklouse

the problem I see is getting them out of the way when they are out.

bianchimoon

nicklouse wrote:

the problem I see is getting them out of the way when they are out.

Mobile chicanes, even more fun

VTech

Hamilton's comments have been taken out of context.
One of the dangers will be having so many drivers out at the same time, pushing to make the grade. This will be dangerous.

bianchimoon

VTech wrote:

Hamilton's comments have been taken out of context.
One of the dangers will be having so many drivers out at the same time, pushing to make the grade. This will be dangerous.

Yes motor racing is by its nature dangerous, the new qualy rules are to make it more interesting as viewers are leaving the sport in their droves. This goes some way to making it a little more interesting again. It needs shaking up!

VTech

bianchimoon wrote:

VTech wrote:

Hamilton's comments have been taken out of context.
One of the dangers will be having so many drivers out at the same time, pushing to make the grade. This will be dangerous.

Yes motor racing is by its nature dangerous, the new qualy rules are to make it more interesting as viewers are leaving the sport in their droves. This goes some way to making it a little more interesting again. It needs shaking up!

Is this the way though ?
Refuelling, any tyre brand, ecu allowances, power ratings, testing etc all allow for much much better scope for viewers.
Viewers simply want overtaking, it really is that simple.
With a single set of mapping structures, same tyres and no testing you have a system where money allows for the better team. This wouldn't be the case if the above were allowed.

bianchimoon

VTech wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

VTech wrote:

Hamilton's comments have been taken out of context.
One of the dangers will be having so many drivers out at the same time, pushing to make the grade. This will be dangerous.

Yes motor racing is by its nature dangerous, the new qualy rules are to make it more interesting as viewers are leaving the sport in their droves. This goes some way to making it a little more interesting again. It needs shaking up!

Is this the way though ?
Refuelling, any tyre brand, ecu allowances, power ratings, testing etc all allow for much much better scope for viewers.
Viewers simply want overtaking, it really is that simple.
With a single set of mapping structures, same tyres and no testing you have a system where money allows for the better team. This wouldn't be the case if the above were allowed.

Refuelling - can add moments of excitement, but does mean overtaking can occur artificially
Any Tyre brand - what happens if say Ferrari have a contract with Pirelli and they happen to have the right tyre that season, we've seen it in the old days when Michelin, Goodyear and Pirelli where on the track at the same time, invariably the car with the superior tyre would win
ECU allowances/Power ratings - more your area than mine, not sure how that would work?
As with un-restricted Testing, the teams with most money get even better, do you give teams lower down the points table additional testing tokens?

On track I suspect not a lot will change this year, Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams 1-2-3

I do think the knock out Qualy will shake things up. All the top teams seem to be against it, which just goes to show they want to protect their positions on the grid, sod the people who pay for their extravagant hobby

verylonglegs

A comment that I read elsewhere on the issue of over-taking seemed to make sense to me but I wonder if more avid fans can point any flaws in...that is the aerodynamic nature of the cars. They said the reason that overtaking has become so rare was due to cars being so aero, as he put it,that as we all know the problem of 'dirty' air denegrated performance to a very large degree. He argued that changing the regulations on aerodynamics was all they really needed to do was to liven it up, in order so it's not penalising a driver for simply being behind and in someone's slip stream around corners. Is that the real issue?

VTech

verylonglegs wrote:

A comment that I read elsewhere on the issue of over-taking seemed to make sense to me but I wonder if more avid fans can point any flaws in...that is the aerodynamic nature of the cars. They said the reason that overtaking has become so rare was due to cars being so aero, as he put it,that as we all know the problem of 'dirty' air denegrated performance to a very large degree. He argued that changing the regulations on aerodynamics was all they really needed to do was to liven it up, in order so it's not penalising a driver for simply being behind and in someone's slip stream around corners. Is that the real issue?

100% thats an issue, you can have similar advantages in aero as you can with 200hp extra.
If you can't go round a corner carrying speed, the extra power is useless.

I have a friend who is a racing driver, he is faster round Silverstone in a 2.0d VW Beetle than I am in a 1250 Lamborghini.

verylonglegs

That is interesting, it seemed blindingly obvious to me when I read what the guy was saying as I don't ever remember it being mentioned as a problem in commentary on races years ago but now we are often reminded throughout a race how important clean air is.

FatTed

What V tech says, I want overtaking, but not DRS assisted. The aerodynamics always get blamed, The V8 touring cars just barge each other out the way. The racing line is only the width of the car for every track. I think F1 needs to apportion the money it earns more equitably among the teams. Really what Joe Saward says.

Lookyhere

Sounds like it might become similar to a track points race - looks good but no one has a xxxxing clue whats going on.

but the really problem with F1 is that with open wheel racing, hi speeds, overtaking and exciting racing are not compatible with safety and no sponsor wants to be associated with deaths, so F1 has to focus completely on safety and that makes for boring racing, regardless of any Q changes.

Aussi V8 Supercar racing is million times better.

Pross

Why not have qualifying for just the first race and after that the drivers just line up in reverse overall position. That way the best drivers would have to overtake. Also, less money getting spent on getting cars through qualifying so a benefit to lesser funded teams. Of course, the downside would be one less day of spectator and TV revenue.

VTech

Pross wrote:

Why not have qualifying for just the first race and after that the drivers just line up in reverse overall position. That way the best drivers would have to overtake. Also, less money getting spent on getting cars through qualifying so a benefit to lesser funded teams. Of course, the downside would be one less day of spectator and TV revenue.

Me and you rarely agree on things but to answer your question, the reason is that it makes sense for the wrong people.
Its probably the very best idea you could have for F1 as a viewer. I remember several "legendary" ex-f1 drivers saying similar things but the outcome was that it would never be passed.
This was during the "break away" talks a couple of years back.

rick_chasey

F1's fundamental long term problem is that if you went back to low regs over the bible sized rule book on what cars can and can't be, they'd be far far far too fast for any track to be safe.

At which point it all becomes arbitrary. As each year passes, it looks more and more like NASCAR or any other dated motor series.

Stevo_666

It's a bit of an indictment of cuŕrent F1 when the big discussion is about qualifying format rather than the racing. Part of me wants to see no holds barred cars where you just make as fast round a track as posssible, but as alluded to above it would end in tears like the old Group B rally cars.

That said, if you want good track based entertainment just go to see the British touring car series: much better racing from a spectator viewpoint IMO and a shed load cheaper.

bianchimoon

The significant factors that have ruined F1 racing
1) The season privateers were outnumbered by the corporations.
2) Fuel saving
3) DRS
4) Hybrid technology
5) Moaning drivers who try to get races stopped rather than getting on with racing
6) different compound tyres on track at same time
7) The prize structure (ferrari finish 4th in '14 and earn the most prize money!!
9) the demise of the classic tracks in favour of 'dessert' tracks or anywhere that will pay Bernie the most money
10) Paid for drives

weezyswiss

F1 is just boring.

Classic tracks provide the standard "this track is notoriously difficult to overtake" comments. If yo can't overtake yo can't race, simple.

Overtaking in pits is tedious, where is the sport in that. Wait and pit is a race between mechanics not drivers.

Aero rather than mechanical grip means once you get behind a car you are stuck.

Too many driver aids. I know it is meant to be the pinnacle of technology, but I'd rather had great racing between drivers than watching something that could simply be 2 people playing a racing game.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

apreading

You wont get people watching qualifying unless they already watch the races.

You wont get people watching the races by changing qualifying, regardless of what you do to it.

If something needs to be done to get viewers back the it must be done to the RACES.

veronese68

WeezySwiss wrote:

F1 is just boring.
...
Aero rather than mechanical grip means once you get behind a car you are stuck.

apreading wrote:

You wont get people watching qualifying unless they already watch the races.

You wont get people watching the races by changing qualifying, regardless of what you do to it.

If something needs to be done to get viewers back the it must be done to the RACES.

I think the former would go a long way to fixing the latter. I haven't watched F1 in years, I'm a car nut and always have been I have friends in F1 and my son is doing his work experience in summer for one of the leading teams. But I watch Moto GP rather than F1 because the racing is more exciting. Mind you even MotoGP isn't what it was.