Rattle rattle Rear wheel coming loose

seanorawe
seanorawe Posts: 950
edited February 2016 in Workshop
Hi guys

This will hopefully be my last post regarding a rattle in my bike BECAUSE I FOUND THE BUGGER!

So I went through all the diagnostics to fix a rattle and I got to service my GXP BB for the first time and it worked a treat with noise in the BB. However, the rattle came back and it sounded like it was 100% worse when I sat on the saddle and not so much out of the saddle. Then it clicked...... its the same noise I was getting when my rear wheel kept coming loose, and just at that point the wheel came out of the dropouts. When I was having this problem I was advised to tighten the QR as much as I could and I did that, but it has manged to work its way loose again. So the clicking must be either a dodgy seat stay or the QR working loose.

When tightening it down again I grabbed the seat stay and pushed it down to ensure it was in the droupouts, and the bike is making the clicky sounds when I do that. I have hit the QR before on the lever side so Im hoping its a dodgy QR.

So my questions.

How do I determine a QR skewer is faulty, should it be bent? Making a noise when turning it?

How do I ensure its not a problem with flex in the seat stay? Can this undo a QR?

Do I call Planet X and arrange for them to take the bike back for a safety check? (its 6 months old)

Thanks for your help
Cube Attain SL Disc
Giant CRS 2.0

Comments

  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I'm not entirely sure what it is you're describing. Once a QR lever is done up properly it shouldn't come undone again. Can you describe exactly how you are doing up the QR?

    Are you saying the axle's moving in the dropouts despite being clamped by the QR? Is it a lightweight QR with an external type cam lever or one of the internal cam types like a Shimano QR? I believe the latter are more reliable, and I've certainly never had an issue with any of mine.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    Qr skewers are a simple thing.

    no they do not need to be straight as the tightening action pulls them straight.

    as to if yours is damaged and no longer usable it needs to be seen.

    Qrs coming loose. rare if tightened correctly, as they are an over cam action (that is they tighten and then go slightly not so tight when fitted) so they actually need to tighten as they are opened. BUT many people do not fit them correctly by not pushing the lever far enough or having the lever resting against part of the frame which means it may not be fully closed.

    then there are the problem Qrs. the open design. and ones made from not really suitable materials.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Hi

    Its an external cam as far as im aware, and it doesnt move in the dropouts, but it comes loose over time despite the lever being pushed all the way in

    I do it up like Ive always done, ensuring its tight enough on both sides and having to close the lever with enough force to leave a white mark on my hand when pushing it. I have also tried doing it up really tight, and it eventually comes lose. As for the clicking, im hoping its the teeth of the QR not working correctly, and not the frame moving.
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • I took out the QR and it looks fine. No gritty noise, teeth look too.
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • Never had a QR come loose in years of riding. Don't want to assume your'e tightening it incorrectly but maybe youtube it just to make sure. When you say both sides are tight? You shouldn't really need to even check the side without the cam on it. Just closing the lever should pull the opposite side inwards and make it virtually impossible to come loose.
    argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
    Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
    De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
    S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
    Rose pro sl disc
  • noodleman wrote:
    Never had a QR come loose in years of riding. Don't want to assume your'e tightening it incorrectly but maybe youtube it just to make sure. When you say both sides are tight? You shouldn't really need to even check the side without the cam on it. Just closing the lever should pull the opposite side inwards and make it virtually impossible to come loose.


    I know, and when its all done up, its all clamped and tight. But it works loose, and the cam side or lever is not turning its just coming loose, and making a click sound while doing it
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    I would simply dispose of the QRs and buy a nice cheap Shimano set . They have an internal cam, only cost as little as ~£12 per set and are pretty much perfect for normal use.
  • Yeah im going to get a set of internals. Ill see if I have any old skewers to see if its definatley the problem. If its not, Planet x will arrange to look at the frame.
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    what are the Qrs?

    link?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • nicklouse wrote:
    what are the Qrs?

    link?

    no brand on them but got as stock from Planet X

    These look very similar

    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WSPXPRSK/p ... pro-skewer
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • seanorawe wrote:
    nicklouse wrote:
    what are the Qrs?

    link?

    no brand on them but got as stock from Planet X

    These look very similar

    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WSPXPRSK/p ... pro-skewer

    Notoriously shite... bin them and get a pair of Shimano as advised above. Life is too short for light QRs
    left the forum March 2023
  • seanorawe wrote:
    nicklouse wrote:
    what are the Qrs?

    link?

    no brand on them but got as stock from Planet X

    These look very similar

    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WSPXPRSK/p ... pro-skewer

    Notoriously shite... bin them and get a pair of Shimano as advised above. Life is too short for light QRs

    :lol: love your approach. I put a internal cam shimano QR in from my hybrid, just to make sure its a QR problem and not a frame problem. The Shimano QR did feel a lot smoother to close.
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • Is the length of the skewer going to be a major factor? I can finf better skewers but slightly bigger than what I was supplied by PX. THey gave a 100mm front and 130mm rear. Would a 135 or 140mm rear not work?
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    You really need the correct length QR for your axle / dropout spacing. You can make a longer one work provided it has sufficient thread to tighten the other end before clamping the QR lever; I've seen old MTB skewers used on road bikes, but you then sometimes have a bit of threaded rod poking out the end of the nut, which looks naff and could be dangerous in a crash.
  • seanorawe wrote:
    Is the length of the skewer going to be a major factor? I can finf better skewers but slightly bigger than what I was supplied by PX. THey gave a 100mm front and 130mm rear. Would a 135 or 140mm rear not work?

    Would have thought you should have a 135mm one with the bike since it is 135mm spacing. If it's 130 it may be too short to do its job properly?
  • seanorawe wrote:
    Is the length of the skewer going to be a major factor? I can finf better skewers but slightly bigger than what I was supplied by PX. THey gave a 100mm front and 130mm rear. Would a 135 or 140mm rear not work?

    Would have thought you should have a 135mm one with the bike since it is 135mm spacing. If it's 130 it may be too short to do its job properly?

    I may have mis heard the guy from planet x. He said its a stnadard MTB skewer. What the normal measurement? the entire length of steel or the length of steel to the bottom of the threads?
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • MTB standard spacing is 135 as well so it should be fine. Non-disc road bikes are generally 130
  • MTB standard spacing is 135 as well so it should be fine. Non-disc road bikes are generally 130

    What part of the skewer do I measure to be sure? I think PX may have used the wrong size
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Well 135mm will be the over lock-nut dimension, then you have the thickness of the dropouts, and then enough thread to properly engage the cam at one end and the nut at the other. Not sure what all that adds up to.

    If it's not long enough there will be too little thread for the nut.
  • mikpem
    mikpem Posts: 139
    A friend had a similar issue with his London Road. He bought it and thought he would have a go at a cyclocross race but every time he put a bit of extra pressure on the pedals (hills/deep mud) he got a loud buzzing vibration from the rear and had to re-seat his wheel. 10 mins before his race started we tightened it up as much as possible and it lasted the race, not sure if he has had any further issues with it but then that was the last race of the season so any use would be a bit more casual now. Let us know if you work something out with PX so that I can forward the information.
  • mikpem wrote:
    A friend had a similar issue with his London Road. He bought it and thought he would have a go at a cyclocross race but every time he put a bit of extra pressure on the pedals (hills/deep mud) he got a loud buzzing vibration from the rear and had to re-seat his wheel. 10 mins before his race started we tightened it up as much as possible and it lasted the race, not sure if he has had any further issues with it but then that was the last race of the season so any use would be a bit more casual now. Let us know if you work something out with PX so that I can forward the information.

    No worries, will do.

    Im hoping and somewhat confident that the shimano QR's will solve the issue. With disc wheels they are known to pull the wheel away from the dropouts with enough force, and that the QR's can vibrate themselves loose. In most cases, better skewers killed the problem.
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0
  • UPDATE

    I exhausted all avenues with this rattle and rear wheel issue. My last port of call was to remove the rear mech and check if the gear hanger was bent at all, and I couldnt see anything. The internal cam QR also didnt prevent this knocky rattle, and it started to come loose after heavy load. So the bike is boxed up and ready to go back for investigation

    Thanks for all the help everyone.
    Cube Attain SL Disc
    Giant CRS 2.0