Bottomless Tokens

nasha48

Hi guys. Can someone explain exactly what RS bottomless tokens do to a fork, both in terms of the technical side and also the change in feel when riding?

Cheers.

Thewaylander

Basically, they reduce the volume in the air chamber, so when you compress the fork due to a small air chamber the pressure increases faster making the fork more progressive, harder to bottom out.

iwilldoit

I bought some Reba's and was shocked how quickly they went through their travel and bottomed out a lot with the correct amount of sag, put one token in and end of problems, as std the 29er Reba was supposed to have one token in them according to the Sram web site, but there wasn't one in them.

Antm81

As above, should allow you to run lower pressures to give more small bump compliance without bottoming out too easily.

JGTR

iwilldoit wrote:

I bought some Reba's and was shocked how quickly they went through their travel and bottomed out a lot with the correct amount of sag, put one token in and end of problems, as std the 29er Reba was supposed to have one token in them according to the Sram web site, but there wasn't one in them.

Exactly what I found, currently running 2 tokens and still not 100% happy, may try 1 token.

iwilldoit

JGTR wrote:

iwilldoit wrote:

I bought some Reba's and was shocked how quickly they went through their travel and bottomed out a lot with the correct amount of sag, put one token in and end of problems, as std the 29er Reba was supposed to have one token in them according to the Sram web site, but there wasn't one in them.

Exactly what I found, currently running 2 tokens and still not 100% happy, may try 1 token.

Don't know if you have seen this, by the way mine are 110mm travel.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.net ... ns_eeu.pdf

JGTR

iwilldoit wrote:

JGTR wrote:

iwilldoit wrote:

I bought some Reba's and was shocked how quickly they went through their travel and bottomed out a lot with the correct amount of sag, put one token in and end of problems, as std the 29er Reba was supposed to have one token in them according to the Sram web site, but there wasn't one in them.

Exactly what I found, currently running 2 tokens and still not 100% happy, may try 1 token.

Don't know if you have seen this, by the way mine are 110mm travel.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.net ... ns_eeu.pdf

So are mine, 2013 Reba RL 29" 110mm travel.

I'll change to the single token, thanks for the link

rockmonkeysc

A few years ago everyone wanted bigger air chambers in their forks and shocks. Now they fill them with volume reducing spacers.

JGTR

RockmonkeySC wrote:

A few years ago everyone wanted bigger air chambers in their forks and shocks. Now they fill them with volume reducing spacers.

Dunno, I was a roadie a few years ago :P

kirby700

Just try and find somewhere that has them in bloody stock.

Need some for my Revelations. Like bloody hens teeth

Antm81

Spoke to,TF tuned about 32mm tokens before I got my pikes. No UK distribution as such yet, they're waiting for them still. Est bet is to order from the states but shipping isn't cheap.

JGTR

kirby700 wrote:

Just try and find somewhere that has them in bloody stock.

Need some for my Revelations. Like bloody hens teeth

Had to order mine from the USA via eBay, less than 2 weeks delievery, less than £30 all in, still have them on US eBay.

poah

look on amazon, I've got a couple in the garage from a SID fork

nasha48

Just a quick thanks for explaining guys, now I get it. I've got Recon 335's which really need replacing (old, station wear, sticky etc) but even if I wanted the tokens, they don't seem available for the Recons. On the hunt for some decent used forks instead...

Antm81

Tokens can only be used with the newer solo air models. I believe 2015 models onwards for the 32mm forks have the correct top cap and a token fitted dependant on travel etc, some of these have a 2014 serial number, my revs did. Before those a new top cap is needed for the air spring leg to fit the tokens to.

nasha48

Right, thanks Antm81, makes sense. Mine are 2009 model! Love your Trance by the way, it's the bike I would love to own next, offers on Paul's Cycles have tempted me of late

JGTR

Antm81 wrote:

Tokens can only be used with the newer solo air models. I believe 2015 models onwards for the 32mm forks have the correct top cap and a token fitted dependant on travel etc, some of these have a 2014 serial number, my revs did. Before those a new top cap is needed for the air spring leg to fit the tokens to.

I'm using tokens in my 2013 Reba, had to buy the cap from eBay USA.

Antm81

Nasha48 wrote:

Right, thanks Antm81, makes sense. Mine are 2009 model! Love your Trance by the way, it's the bike I would love to own next, offers on Paul's Cycles have tempted me of late

Thanks mate. It's a great bike, now fitted a set of pikes too

nasha48

Trance + pikes = joy

supersonic

Better to have a large chamber you can reduce than a small chamber you can't expand. Have the choice of a more linear or more progressive rate. Don't forget damping adjustment too (if you have any).

Clockworkmark31

Might be a stupid question, but I will ask anyway.

Could you fit tokens to forks that weren't designed for them? Obviously you would need them machined to fit your fork.

I can't see any difference unless I don't understand the tokens.

JGTR

Clockworkmark31 wrote:

Might be a stupid question, but I will ask anyway.

Could you fit tokens to forks that weren't designed for them? Obviously you would need them machined to fit your fork.

I can't see any difference unless I don't understand the tokens.

From what I understand, yes. In theory anything that reduces the volume should work - could just glue something to the underside of the aircap. I did read about using a big lump of grease....not sure how well it worked though.

Only problem may be causing damage by over pressurising on a fork that isn't designed for tokens but need someone with more expertise to confirm.

Clockworkmark31

Happy that I understand the principle of them now.

So in theory I could get something manufactured for my 2015 Fox Float evo CTD so it would run less pressure, so it would be smoother but under load the pressure would ramp up so it doesn't dive? Sounds correct theoretically.

Understand your point on over pressurizing, but I can't imagine that the o rings are any different than a normal fork.

I guess a big lump of grease would displace a certain amount of air, seems reasonable in thought.

Clockworkmark31

Clockworkmark31 wrote:

Happy that I understand the principle of them now.

So in theory I could get something manufactured for my 2015 Fox Float evo CTD so it would run less pressure, so it would be smoother, but under load the pressure would ramp up so it doesn't dive? Sounds correct theoretically.

Understand your point on over pressurizing, but I can't imagine that the o rings are any different than a normal fork.

I guess a big lump of grease would displace a certain amount of air, seems reasonable in thought.

JGTR

Think so, tokens allow me to run lower pressure without the fork bottoming out all the time, but my fork needs the tokens.

Without tokens I need higher pressures which make for a very stiff fork (ie no movement over the small stuff).

Clockworkmark31

Sounds like my fork, but my fork is not designed for tokens. But I can't see how it can't work.

Would say that I am not surprised that manufacturers don't offer this.

rockmonkeysc

JGTR wrote:

Think so, tokens allow me to run lower pressure without the fork bottoming out all the time, but my fork needs the tokens.

Without tokens I need higher pressures which make for a very stiff fork (ie no movement over the small stuff).

Not that straightforward. It will be softer in the first part of the stroke and stiffer further down the travel.
They're often used as a substitute for proper damping which would also prevent bottoming but with more control.

JGTR

Not that straightforward. It will be softer in the first part of the stroke and stiffer further down the travel.

Yep, exact reasons I have tokens in mine

crossed

You can get them from the German retailers.

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/rock ... air-458656

No worries about import duties and they are usually delivered within two or three days.

poah

however, running it softer will mean more brake dive so its a trade off. when tuning my pikes I started off at 30% sag but while it was soft it bottomed out so put a couple of tokens in which solved the bottoming out but it had significant brake dive. Adding LSC helped but removed small bump sensitivity. I increased pressure and removed a token and the LSC making the fork much better. Couldn't tell you the sag though. Will need to retune it now I'm on a hard tail

rockmonkeysc

You can use grease in any air shock or fork to reduce the volume. It does break down after a while though and you need to make sure it's compatible with the seals.