2016 Six Nations

crispybug2

About to start, following on from the world cup debacle I'm not overflowing with enthusiasm but no doubt I'll get more into it as the competition progresses...

Anyway, predictions..

Wales
England
Scotland
France
Ireland
Italy

No Grand Slam

gethinceri

Wales
Ireland
England
Scotland
Italy
France

bendertherobot

Virtually every newpaper, media and pundit calls it for Wales. Which is hugely unnerving. Never seen that before.

We're fit, well drilled, mostly injury free.

So, Ireland's year.

ddraver

Whoop whoop!!

Italy starting well!!

crispybug2

France 23 - 21 Italy

Good start to the tournament, neither team will be giving the home nations too many causes for concern!

ddraver

Well, not the most edifying game ever but a win for England is what's important

orraloon

So these Vunipolas, are these the Wiltshire Vunipolas?

Fair dos, England deserved the win. And that man Billy V, pretty damn good performance.

Pross

Finding it difficult to get up for the tournament this year. The World Cup just showed up exactly how far the northern brand of the game has fallen behind NZ in particular. Will anyone be prepared to take a risk and playing the sort of fast paced, offloading game? I doubt it and we'll see turgid, defence biased kicking games and error strewn matches.

pblakeney

Pross wrote:

Finding it difficult to get up for the tournament this year. The World Cup just showed up exactly how far the northern brand of the game has fallen behind NZ in particular. Will anyone be prepared to take a risk and playing the sort of fast paced, offloading game? I doubt it and we'll see turgid, defence biased kicking games and error strewn matches.

Hindsight?
I agree, but would have been a better post before kick off.

Pross

I've only seen about half an hour of the Italy v France game and listened to about half of the Calcutta Cup as I've been out virtually all day so it's not really hindsight. If anything, what I saw of France v Italy suggested both teams might at least be trying the expansive game. It sounded like England may have started out that way but reverted to type when Scotland put them under pressure. Wales will try to batter holes as usual tomorrow.

FatTed

Can't be bothered anymore, Northern Hemisphere Rugby is turgid, Southern depends too much on the referee. Bring on the F1 (which is in even more pooh).

ddraver

.....huh

Pross

Ireland looked good in patches but just couldn't sustain it. Wales, same old same old, very solid defence with just the one lapse but no real attacking thrust. Nice to see their set piece look so solid though. I'm not quite sure what the final Irish penalty was for though (not saying the ref got it wrong but I just couldn't spot the offside). Also, I thought any tip tackle was at the very least a yellow card these days? It was a big thing in the last couple of seasons. 'Neck rolls' also seem to be getting overlooked again as both sides did them regularly in today's game.

bendertherobot

Pross wrote:

Ireland looked good in patches but just couldn't sustain it. Wales, same old same old, very solid defence with just the one lapse but no real attacking thrust. Nice to see their set piece look so solid though. I'm not quite sure what the final Irish penalty was for though (not saying the ref got it wrong but I just couldn't spot the offside). Also, I thought any tip tackle was at the very least a yellow card these days? It was a big thing in the last couple of seasons. 'Neck rolls' also seem to be getting overlooked again as both sides did them regularly in today's game.

The tip should be yellow as per the directive. And if not worthy of one then not a penalty. So in confirming the penalty Garces confirmed he'd crapped out of it. Weird one. But it's ok because the commentators said Earls didn't intend it and he's a nice bloke.

Pross

He did a second one shortly after that got missed altogether. ITV coverage was horrendous, Mullins was just making things up as he went along!

pblakeney

bendertherobot wrote:

Pross wrote:

Ireland looked good in patches but just couldn't sustain it. Wales, same old same old, very solid defence with just the one lapse but no real attacking thrust. Nice to see their set piece look so solid though. I'm not quite sure what the final Irish penalty was for though (not saying the ref got it wrong but I just couldn't spot the offside). Also, I thought any tip tackle was at the very least a yellow card these days? It was a big thing in the last couple of seasons. 'Neck rolls' also seem to be getting overlooked again as both sides did them regularly in today's game.

The tip should be yellow as per the directive. And if not worthy of one then not a penalty. So in confirming the penalty Garces confirmed he'd crapped out of it. Weird one. But it's ok because the commentators said Earls didn't intend it and he's a nice bloke.

I thought the yellow wasn't given due to the way Williams jumped into the tackle.
He was tipped but contributed to that. I dare say Garces couldn't win. Too harsh, too lenient, or his middle ground decision.
Perfect result for England.

Pross

The whole tip tackle thing is a farce anyway. There's blatant spear tackles which should be a straight red (like that by Umaga on O'Driscoll) but the vast majority are just a result of the angle of contact (which is usually a good, text book tackle on the upper legs or midriff) and pace of both players. How any player is supposed to suddenly adapt to take the tackled player safely to ground is a mystery to me. It should only be a penalty if the tackler deliberately lifts the tackled player off his feet. In a sensible world Earls wouldn't have been penalised but working with the laws and dictats from the IRU it should have been yellow as the onus is on the tackler.

jawooga

And lots of tackles that were getting pinged as high during the world cup, were being let go. To be honest, I thought the refereeing in the world cup was too strict, especially with the (not too high) judo roll.

laurentian

Pross wrote:

Finding it difficult to get up for the tournament this year. The World Cup just showed up exactly how far the northern brand of the game has fallen behind NZ in particular. Will anyone be prepared to take a risk and playing the sort of fast paced, offloading game? I doubt it and we'll see turgid, defence biased kicking games and error strewn matches.

The New Zealand approach to the game is undoubtedly a spectacle of precision and skill but is only on facet of "good rugby". I've never held the belief that, in order to beat New Zealand, you have to play like New Zealand. I would suggest that the rest of the rugby world accepts New Zealand's style and the fact that they are very good at it and then tries to find a way to beat them (or anyone else) their own way. I would not try to out-all black the all blacks - this will only end up with the All Blacks winning.

I thought England did the job up in Edinburgh. It was a comfortable win with a handful of great performances with Billy Vunipola, Haskell, Nowell and, in particular, Owen Farrell catching the eye. The set piece was infinitely better thank anything we saw in the RWC as Hartley steadied the ship. He is the best choice for captain in my opinion and was before he was chosen.

Italy were desperately unlucky to lose to France and Parisse was just incredible again. The French 11 looks like he will be a handful for anyone - Picamole's injury could be a serious blow for them. England will have their work cut out in Paris.

Ireland v Wales was the best game of the weekend and, with both of these teams playing at Twickenham, mathematically the best result possible for England. I fear that the Wales and Ireland focus for the 6 Nations will now be heavily biased towards beating England.

ddraver

I think you make a good point laurentian. There is a derth of attacking skill in the N Hemisphere though. Pretty much no team looked like scoring a try in 3 matches. Ireland looked best but butchered all the chances. What sticks in my mind is toward the end of the Sunday game there was a period with something like 27 phases and the two commentators on Bein sports (which was the only illegal feed I could find) were getting super excited. However at no point did the Welsh actually move forward in those 27 phases. That's ridiculous. It was commentated on like it was an epic period of super play. In the Southern Hemisphere it would have been viewed as an abject failure by the attacking team.

I think it was Ryan Jones on the 5 Live preview who said that if you really want to improve N Hemisphere rugby, move the 6N back a month so that it is played in March/April when the weather is better and the pitches faster. I think he has a point!

laurentian

ddraver wrote:

I think you make a good point laurentian. There is a derth of attacking skill in the N Hemisphere though. Pretty much no team looked like scoring a try in 3 matches. Ireland looked best but butchered all the chances. What sticks in my mind is toward the end of the Sunday game there was a period with something like 27 phases and the two commentators on Bein sports (which was the only illegal feed I could find) were getting super excited. However at no point did the Welsh actually move forward in those 27 phases. That's ridiculous. It was commentated on like it was an epic period of super play. In the Southern Hemisphere it would have been viewed as an abject failure by the attacking team.

I think it was Ryan Jones on the 5 Live preview who said that if you really want to improve N Hemisphere rugby, move the 6N back a month so that it is played in March/April when the weather is better and the pitches faster. I think he has a point!

I'm not sure there is a dearth of attacking skill. More a dearth of attacking will.

I believe this stems from the fact that (in England) too many games are played to ensure they are not lost rather than that they are played to gain a win. This is because the gulf between the Premiership and the next division down is huge financially. Although it is anathema to our sporting heritage, I think that a ring fenced premiership with no relegation or promotion would help massively in this and in teams throwing off the attacking shackles. Look the teams who are great (SA, NZ, Aus) and those who have improved enormously over the past 10 years or so (Wales, Ireland). All of their elite leagues are in this "ring fenced" format. It would also secure more sponsorship (name on the shirt guaranteed to be on TV for as long as the contract), make the league games more of a spectacle (I find most of those I see pretty boring to be honest) and this can only engender more interest and cash.

I think the 27 phases you refer to were at the end of the match(?) I guess if they had resulted in achieving a field position for a successful drop goal to win the match we would be lauding Welsh patience and execution - if it was this period of play with the clock in the red, I think it was the only option they had.

As far as moving the 6N back a month or two goes due to the weather, I've seen Sonny Bill Williams throw some filthy off loads in the teeming rain in Dunedin and the unpredictability of the weather surely plays into the hands of some teams (think Scotland in 1990 etc.) - I wouldn't want to see the timing change - NZ, Aus and SA seem to do OK up here every November!!

ddraver

(I think it was around 70 mins - not quite into final drop goal time, but approaching yes...)

pblakeney

laurentian wrote:

This is because the gulf between the Premiership and the next division down is huge financially.

Would it not be better for all if this gulf was removed?
Personally, I think the team that wins the lower division should be higher rewarded than bottom of the upper division.
That gives incentives to win. Promotion and relegation remain. Deliberately getting relegated for higher rewards in the lower division would be a massive gamble. Think of the relegated teams who have struggled in the lower divisions.

laurentian

PBlakeney wrote:

laurentian wrote:

This is because the gulf between the Premiership and the next division down is huge financially.

Would it not be better for all if this gulf was removed?
Personally, I think the team that wins the lower division should be higher rewarded than bottom of the upper division.
That gives incentives to win. Promotion and relegation remain. Deliberately getting relegated for higher rewards in the lower division would be a massive gamble. Think of the relegated teams who have struggled in the lower divisions.

That would be an ideal solution but rugby does not generate anything like the revenue needed to sustain much more than the premiership and I can't see that changing.

I don't think that the above would encourage attacking rugby in the lower teams of the premiership . . . the problem with the ring fenced system of course being the number of dead rubber games at the end of the season - perhaps team win bonuses paid by the league would solve this (?)

jawooga

ddraver wrote:

Pretty much no team looked like scoring a try in 3 matches.

Eh? Wales and Ireland had one each, England two against Scotland, and France and Italy shared five.

Brian Moore advocates bonus points in 6 nations with a scoop up bonus for winning the grand slam so that a grand slam winner will always win the tournament.

I'm a big believer that the bonus point has worked in the Premiership. As a casual fan of Exeter, it's clear that they have elevated their game and league position through going for bonus point wins. That said, as the weather has worsened, their tries have come from Waldrom in the maul and other wet weather options. Perhaps there is logic in bonus points plus moving the tournament back a month.

ballysmate

I posted last year something along the lines of us bigging up the 6N as the premier rugby event because deep down we realise how far behind the Southern nations we are. The WC showed the gulf in class. So here we are again, getting excited about the outcome of a competition between second and perhaps in some cases third tier sides, just for bragging rights. We will go on playing the same brand of rugby and the winner of the tournament, whoever it may be, will think all is well.

crispybug2

An hour into the second round of games and France vs Ireland is shaping up to be the worst game of the year!

Pross

France v Ireland was dire. Wales v Scotland better with the Scots playing some good rugby prior to Hogg having to go off. Wales still so predictable and I felt Scotland were unlucky but they seem to lack both confidence and strength in depth. Nice to see Abergavenny Road Club's very own George North back on the score sheet though.

dabber

Persevered in watching the France, Ireland match but really hard work to maintain any interest. Decided not to watch Wales, Scotland but later on I weakened and thought I'd dip in to see how it was going. A couple of minutes of Jonathon Davies dulcet tones had me turning off.

crispybug2

Italy vs England
England were pretty poor for the first sixty minutes but the substitutions made all the difference and pulled away after the intercept try which seemed to completely deflate the Italians


p.s. Ben Youngs MOTM..........srsly!!

bendertherobot

Duw, who'd have thought it. Fast men with plenty of gas taking the ball at pace and slicing through rather than barging through.

It'll never catch on.