Disgusting.

bendertherobot

Ta!

dyrlac

Seconded!

Snakebite the 2nd

Very interesting about the "There but for the grace..." feeling amongst the jurors.
I for one dread going from bright sunlit roads into tree canopy covered sections, and the like for that exact reason.
It's so easy to get caught out on roads you are not familiar with

bendertherobot

Snakebite the 2nd wrote:

Very interesting about the "There but for the grace..." feeling amongst the jurors.
I for one dread going from bright sunlit roads into tree canopy covered sections, and the like for that exact reason.
It's so easy to get caught out on roads you are not familiar with

That's the most interesting paragaph. You'll see that Martyn Porter QC wrote pretty much the same thing quite a while after me. He was called out on that for lack of empirical evidence. Thing is, that's really hard to come by and expressing an opinion about why you think juries do what they do is fine.

I've little doubt that juries consider that most road traffic stuff isn't really true crime at all.

edindevon

Yes, good stuff bendertherobot.

I think there's a typo in part one and that you meant to write Criminal instead of Civil in the following - 'Civil law prosecutions are brought by the State'.

It's not covered in your piece, but there was an interesting case in Exeter recently. The defendant's stance was that although he couldn't remember the fatal crash, he was 'a very experienced and skilled motorcyclist who would not have made such an error of judgement'. http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Motorcyclist-denies-causing-death-pillion/story-28696254-detail/story.html And the jury were unable to reach a verdict.

bendertherobot

Ta for the spot. Corrected! I'll try and do a follow up piece soon..........

wolfsbane2k

Read part 1, currently half way through part 2, but I'm #outraged, and need to get back to work.
Very well put together pieces, and can see so much of it in the day to day attitude of so many people. So will read the rest later.

bendertherobot

The helmet and being seen ones are quite detailed as well. And perhaps more controversial (the helmet one certainly).

If anyone has any good social/legal/political ideas you would like to see please feel free to mention it!

Snakebite the 2nd

Is there any similar information on cyclists who have been to court for offences?

The reason I ask is that I'm convinced that a lot of drivers do not give cyclists any respect because they see us as either being above the law or thinking we are immune from it.

I'm guessing that a lot of cyclists committing offences would never get to court because the police are not certain of a conviction.

edindevon

Snakebite the 2nd wrote:

Is there any similar information on cyclists who have been to court for offences?

As you'll gather from the information provided by bendertherobot, there are a limited range of offences that car drivers can be charged with and the range is even more limited when it comes to cyclists. There's some guidance on this here - http://www.cyclelaw.co.uk/cycling-offences-riding-dangerously-recklessly-carelessly-or-inconsiderately

And of course, on the whole, damage caused by cyclist isn't so serious, so the whole public interest aspect comes into play. That said, there are cases of fatalities resulting from people being hit by cyclists and I can think of two in Exeter in the last few months One one of these apparently involved a collision between two cyclists and I'm not aware of any charges being brought as a result.

edindevon

No cyclists involved, but this case shows just how difficult it is for someone to be convicted of causing serious injury by dangerous driving.

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Student-cleared-dangerous-driving-loses-licence/story-29348357-detail/story.html

bendertherobot

Edindevon wrote:

No cyclists involved, but this case shows just how difficult it is for someone to be convicted of causing serious injury by dangerous driving.

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Student-cleared-dangerous-driving-loses-licence/story-29348357-detail/story.html

The law is essentially quite limiting. It sounds very poor, and we haven't seen the footage, but it does sound careless rather than dangerous (below v far below). Ultimately this is why we need an offence of causing serious injury by careless driving though the introduction of that will need some rejigging of current offence sentencing (i.e. ramp them all up a bit).

azzurri78

Just to go back to the original video. Would the failure to give the name of the driver work as a defence if the cyclist had died (which thankfully didn't happen). Just curious to know if that defence only works up to a certain level of prosecution?

bendertherobot

azzurri78 wrote:

Just to go back to the original video. Would the failure to give the name of the driver work as a defence if the cyclist had died (which thankfully didn't happen). Just curious to know if that defence only works up to a certain level of prosecution?

Possibly. They'd throw more resources at it and get more evidence, possibly. I suspect the outcome would be the same.

edindevon

For anyone who hasn't seen the story, here's another example of how hard it is to successfully prosecute for dangerous driving. The story doesn't give the specific charge- http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/jury-hung-in-dangerous-driving-case-of-motorist-who-collided-with-cyclist-on-a-narrow-country-lane/story-29829794-detail/story.html

bendertherobot

They missed should be between the words jury and hung.

veronese68

Never mind the irony that such a selfish uncaring individual is described as a carer. The driving is bad enough but her actions afterwards show what a horrible piece of work she is. Victim blaming taken to a whole new level, she probably thinks a hung jury proves she is right.

Huismans

Still. As far as the video it was something to watch. And the comments to read as well.

Alls I know is I know some people don't treat the road with respect, both on bikes and in vehicles. But at the end of the day, if someone on a bike gets hit, it doesn't matter who's at fault, the person on the bike will be hurt a lot worse.