Anyone ride with Fast Forward F4R clinchers? (now talking Zipp 303/404)

Propelling

I've been searching for a good clincher aero wheelset, between 40 and 50mm. I've pretty much settled on the Fast Forward F4R, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there in terms of solid reviews. Plenty of 'first look' reviews but no head to head tests or long term thoughts.

If you ride them, how do you find them in the wind/gusty conditions? Find their DARC profile does anything?

I'm also trying to make a choice between the full carbon rim, or the heavier rim with the alloy brake track. Would be great to have first hand experiences on either. There's also an option of FFWD hubs or Dt240s. I wonder how well the FFWD hubs perform.

1680g and $1255 vs 1485g and $2000. Wondering if the extra is going to be worth the money. I like that FFWD seem to make a durable wheelset by the looks, and they say their profile is a modern design (not a V shape, and are 22.4mm wide).


Thanks for any thoughts!

Calpol

I don't have them but have looked at them a few times. In the flesh they look really good, my LBS had some hanging up in the shop. Personally I don't think they represent that good value in the market place. They aren't as wide as where the trend seems to be and also don't seem to have adopted the "U" shape profile made popular by Zipp. Every review says that "u" shaped is better in crosswinds, personally I don't have enough experience to comment.

If you are considering carbon/alloy then there are a few other options
HED Jet 4 or 5 - I saw a US store with the 5s on close out at $999 which must be close to 50% discount
SwissSide Hadrons - get decent reviews around
Soul CA5.0 - from Singapore and no reviews around yet but Seans other wheels are well regarded.

If you are going for all carbon clinchers then the world is your oyster but be prepared for brain ache.

ddraver

They re very dutch...

Well made but conservative and fearful of change

JoostG

ddraver wrote:

They re very dutch...

Well made but conservative and fearful of change

:oops:

Grill

They're fine but nothing special. At that price HED and SwissSide are better.

clazza

I have a pair...and I'm selling them! My handling isnt great (I am genuinely useless!) and I found the wheels did catch the wind a little. Apart from that, they are nice, well-built wheels and reasonably wide with an internal width of 16.7 External nipples are also good as is the alloy brake track, especially as I do a lot of riding in the hills.

Mine are the FFWD hubs and they are fine, not sure what DT240 would add

FWIW, friend of mine has had terrible problems with the HED hubs. I also have a pair of Soul (2.0)...they're OK but didnt take nicely to a few days of riding in the winter (alloy oxidisation from salt I think). I think the 5's have internal nipples which are not for me

Anyway, if you're not a nervous handler, I think they're good wheels - I did a lot of research and they ticked all the boxes for a reliable aero wheelset. If you're still interested in them, feel free to PM me as I'm selling mine

Propelling

Thanks for the input everyone. I might rethink them after all the comments. One of the reasons I looked at them was that i didn't see as many negative reports in the wind, like a lot of other common mid-level wheels. (The prices i wrote are Aussie by the way)

Made the mistake of looking more into all carbon clinchers. Been going round in circles for days now! Worse yet, when looking at the weight difference of zipp 303s vs 404s for example (1645g vs 1690g) it might be worth going with a depth between 55 and 60mm instead of around 45 I started looking at.

Initially thought going to 55mm would harm acceleration. Might be more of a handful in the wind but noticed a lot of riders in the race last night were running 80mm rims. (Bit heavier than my 5'8 75kg frame by the looks though)

Grill

Jesus, if you're looking at Zipp FCC then may as well look at good wheels. Get a set of Reynolds Aero or Enve 4.5. Both are superb in crosswinds abs have hubs that will last.

Propelling

I was just looking at "the best" to get an idea of what is expected in a good wheelset.

My wife will shoot me if I start developing a quiver of wheelsets so the set i buy have to be suitable for training and racing. Training does include a bit of climbing so was hoping to get the weight down. I'm not an A grade rider though, so in reality I'll probably look like a real punter if I have good gear i can't ride haha

bendertherobot

I loved mine. Sold them as made the swap to discs. Long story.

I paid about £600 for the DT Swiss ones. They were very lovely. Rolled well, fairly good in wind. Looked nice. There, that's a review.

Propelling

Thanks Bender, it's appreciated. Starting to head away from them now after finding some other deals.

Can't afford the Zipp firestrike or the new NSW 404's, which means I dip out on the better braking track. Firecrest 303 or 404 clinchers could be what I'm after, but a still bit more than I had budgeted. Surely I'd be fine on their regular brake resin blah blah. I'm not a clydesdale, but not a whippet either at ~165lbs.

In reality I Won't be braking too heavily downhill at break neck speed, so think the 404 track would still be ok. They would then give me more aero advantage than the 303 on the flat race course, and not penalise me that much going up hill with mates in training. Guessing the 404 may be stiffer which might help in sprints? Hopefully there won't be a huge difference in crosswinds with my weight.

Hopefully my thoughts are logical, thanks for being a sound board everyone

meesterbond

For what it's worth I'm currently riding with 303s and whilst I'll happily admit they were largely a vanity purchase they've been great in the 9 months or so I've been using them. That said, I'm in Essex so not much in the way of mountain passes to navigate (when I've been in the Alps/Pyrenees I've gone back to alloy rimmed clinchers).

In comparison to my other wheels they seem better handling than both the Cosmic Carbones they replaces and the Boras on my other bike, although I would definitely put some of that down to the wider rim. They definitely don't catch the wind like the Mavics do though. Braking is perfectly fine across all of them (the red Campag pads make all the difference with the Boras).

Propelling

Cheers for that. How do you find them in the wind? Get bumped around a bit? or feel you could get away with a deeper profile? (Reviews mention lighter riders but don't think I'm in that category at 75kg/165lb. Not sure)

One of the reasons I'm buying new wheels is the Giant PA2 wheels I have are already out of true and have been pinging/plinking since day one. Done about 450km? Not the most sturdy wheel I think. I probably was always going to upgrade them anyway (I could true them etc, but they're a little harsh)
Would be good to have something a bit stronger, one reason I thought the 404 may be better than the 303? Thinking the 303 might be safer in the wind and stand out less than the 404 haha.

Deal I thought I'd found on firecrests is over now unfortunately. Too slow.

meesterbond

No problems in the wind although I'm a few kg heavier than you. I don't know whether the 404s are necessarily any stronger than the 303s.

I did notice the Cosmics getting blown around more, particularly when you're riding passed a gap in a hedge, the front could catch slightly. Nothing particularly drastic but noticeable.

The profile on the 303s is quite rounded, much more of a 'U' shape than the Mavics and Boras which are a very distinct 'V' so maybe that helps the wind flow over them.