Decent 24" wheel options ....
Steve-XcT
Posts: 267
I appreciate as someone said on another thread that the stock answer seems to be Buy an Isla Bike.
Upgrading a Blast seems the other ....
This is also a rather circular thread !!!
My 6 yr old is currently riding a rigid (Evans 20" Pinnacle Ash) and we cycle red trails (at Swinley) every week (usually at least twice). He's fast approaching the height to a 24" wheel (at a pinch he could ride one now) and I really think given what we ride he'd benefit from decent suspension forks and disc brakes. He's very comfortable with his currrent 6sp (upgraded to a 34T) thumbshift.
This initially seems to give limited options ... non of which are for immediate purchase and in many ways I'd rather take the next 3 months building the bike with him. Now adult bikes also can get more and more expensive .... but in reality there are plenty of options of perfectly decent bikes both new and used.
Options: ????
Get a Isla Creig 24 and have done. £700 new (and say £30 for some thumb shifters)
Kona Shred 24w however seems not bad but has a 7sp Shimano Tourney with freewheel £500 new.
Buy a Carerra Blast ... say £100 but then change more or less everything but the Frame front wheel and rear rim?
Still stuck with a freewheel unless I rebuild the rear wheel.... (£70-80 say rebuild/spokes + £60 cassette/chain then do something for the cranks/chainwheel ?? ) This seems more expensive than a NEW Shred 24... ?? and really potentially more than the Isla depending how far you go??
Or throwing in the cat amongst the pigeons the German option ... Poision 24" XT ... £650 in Deore Spec (except Brakes which are M395 160/160 mm and probably more than adequate for his weight) ... but also available in XT Spec for £725 ...
http://www.poison-bikes.de/shopart/9915000402/Mountainbikes/Hardtail-kleine-Groessen/Zyankali-24-Shimano-XT.html?&d=1 (warning all in German)
What really throws the cat in ... as it were is this is overall much better spec'd than the Isla THOUGH it's Spinner Grind Air 24 instead of RST F1rst Air 24 on the Isla.
Then the real thing that throws me off is you can buy the Frame, Frame + Cranks or Frame Cranks/Spinner "quite cheap".... i.e £150 for the frame with headset and rigid forks ... triple butted and add chainset/BB for another £75...
i.e. £225 gets a Frame and 10sp (triple) chainwheel but they don't sell the wheels separately that puts me back to looking for decent 24" wheels....which I reckon could be got for £100-ish so basically £330 or so but a (much) better 1.6 kg base than a used Carerra which seems to be £125-£150 on eBay???
On this is the cost of decent forks: Spinner Grind £70 or RST F1rst £140 .... which I can stick on a used Carerra Blast Frame (with crappy cranks and freewheel) or a what looks to be a really nice frame and 10sp cranks/cassette
I can see the Carerra costing more by the time .... and sticking money on a medicore frame but what other options exist for rear discs and how mediocre is the Blast Frame?
To close the circle....is the real question is about brakes? ... If I was willing to forgo (rear) disc brakes then suddenly the options open up. The 7sp freewheel is liveable with....
Upgrading a Blast seems the other ....
This is also a rather circular thread !!!
My 6 yr old is currently riding a rigid (Evans 20" Pinnacle Ash) and we cycle red trails (at Swinley) every week (usually at least twice). He's fast approaching the height to a 24" wheel (at a pinch he could ride one now) and I really think given what we ride he'd benefit from decent suspension forks and disc brakes. He's very comfortable with his currrent 6sp (upgraded to a 34T) thumbshift.
This initially seems to give limited options ... non of which are for immediate purchase and in many ways I'd rather take the next 3 months building the bike with him. Now adult bikes also can get more and more expensive .... but in reality there are plenty of options of perfectly decent bikes both new and used.
Options: ????
Get a Isla Creig 24 and have done. £700 new (and say £30 for some thumb shifters)
Kona Shred 24w however seems not bad but has a 7sp Shimano Tourney with freewheel £500 new.
Buy a Carerra Blast ... say £100 but then change more or less everything but the Frame front wheel and rear rim?
Still stuck with a freewheel unless I rebuild the rear wheel.... (£70-80 say rebuild/spokes + £60 cassette/chain then do something for the cranks/chainwheel ?? ) This seems more expensive than a NEW Shred 24... ?? and really potentially more than the Isla depending how far you go??
Or throwing in the cat amongst the pigeons the German option ... Poision 24" XT ... £650 in Deore Spec (except Brakes which are M395 160/160 mm and probably more than adequate for his weight) ... but also available in XT Spec for £725 ...
http://www.poison-bikes.de/shopart/9915000402/Mountainbikes/Hardtail-kleine-Groessen/Zyankali-24-Shimano-XT.html?&d=1 (warning all in German)
What really throws the cat in ... as it were is this is overall much better spec'd than the Isla THOUGH it's Spinner Grind Air 24 instead of RST F1rst Air 24 on the Isla.
Then the real thing that throws me off is you can buy the Frame, Frame + Cranks or Frame Cranks/Spinner "quite cheap".... i.e £150 for the frame with headset and rigid forks ... triple butted and add chainset/BB for another £75...
i.e. £225 gets a Frame and 10sp (triple) chainwheel but they don't sell the wheels separately that puts me back to looking for decent 24" wheels....which I reckon could be got for £100-ish so basically £330 or so but a (much) better 1.6 kg base than a used Carerra which seems to be £125-£150 on eBay???
On this is the cost of decent forks: Spinner Grind £70 or RST F1rst £140 .... which I can stick on a used Carerra Blast Frame (with crappy cranks and freewheel) or a what looks to be a really nice frame and 10sp cranks/cassette
I can see the Carerra costing more by the time .... and sticking money on a medicore frame but what other options exist for rear discs and how mediocre is the Blast Frame?
To close the circle....is the real question is about brakes? ... If I was willing to forgo (rear) disc brakes then suddenly the options open up. The 7sp freewheel is liveable with....
0
Comments
-
[/quote]oxoman wrote:You could do worse than look at the Merida, i thought about doing something along he line of the blast or hotrock but figured that for what the youngest at 10yrs old wanted to do and for how long he will have the bike the Merida was a better option. Given that the way he's growing he will be on a 26" XS by next year. Quite happy to do Cannock, Sherwood on his bike with Llandegla come the summer. They also do a few other higher and lower specced bikes around this frame.
http://www.merida-bikes.com/en_int/bike ... -2258.html
That does look pretty good.
I have the same thoughts on how long the bike is a decent size ... I guess one thought I had was the groupset is transferable if you go high (cost) enough ....
I think I might be obsessing over the brakes :? .... partly based on my annoyance at constantly truing the wheels/adding some slack in the brakes so they don't rub where they come out of true.
Just going for rim brakes really makes a huge difference to viable options!0 -
oxoman wrote:The only time my youngest slows down or struggles is in the wet when the rims are wet, otherwise it's not a problem. He has ridden a disc braked bike of his mates but didn't like it as it was heavier and to quote him ( felt like it was going to throw me over the bars every time I used them. ) The biggest game changer for Dan when he went from the 20" to the 24" was decent shifters and 10 speed cassette. He didn't want a double or triple chainset either, will probably fit a shadow plus mech and bigger cassette if needed for llandegla, would also help him at cannock as he hates cardiac hill.
The makes a lot of sense .... really helpful but I'm still driving myself in circles!
The worst thing I did for my kids cycling was buy a really horrid Halfords bike when he was 3 .... and from the age of 3 to nearly 6 he had no interest in cycling.... It weighed at least 3 times the weight of his present 20" Evans one..and he was much happier on his scooter than bike.. then a couple of months before his 6th B'Day the thing was getting too small and I'd not given up hope he'd take to cycling so I said if he could ride without stabilisers I'd buy him a new bike !! I'd been looking at eBay etc. and didn't really expect he'd do it straight off (mostly from motivation as his balance is very good)..
So .. to cut a long story ... took of stabilisers and all of 2 minutes later he's riding.. so .... obviously had planned on a second hand but not wanting to break promises to small kids ended up buying the Pinnacle from Evans. Two weekends later we did the canal towpath but managed a good 20 miles... then we went to Surrey Hills and did a 15 mile mostly off-road ...
Both of these were "The best day of my life" according to him.... so I was a pleased as punch Dad.... and took him over to Swinley .(I guess end Oct).. We've been pretty much every weekend and usually twice a weekend since and it's all he talks about for the weekends ... (I'd go other places but he's happy to discover new runs and improve on familiar ones at the moment and its only a 30 minute drive)
So I guess a "decent bike" made all the difference and equally we have only really been doing the challenging stuff in Winter ... which has probably skewed things...
I had noticed what's holding him back was he had his brakes on ... but when I checked them out it was because he (or I) couldn't lock them up as I'd gradually loosened them over the day as mud, snow and slight buckle were rubbing to an extent they wouldn't actually stop him anymore... so as you'd imagine I felt a bit bad sending him down descents he can't stop on! Anyway ... I trued the wheel up.... so this weekend he'll have brakes....but come summer it's hardly the same problem...
For the cassette ... that's the other question .... as getting him above a 8 speed essentially means a freewheel....
He's got a 34 'mega' but other than 'better groupset all round' I don't see the 10 being a big change ??? (At least on the trails we do) he's usually in 2nd-4th though he might go into 5th and 6th coming back to the car on firetrails and I discourage him from using 1st unless we have a mega hill....
Question that is leading to is we are currently "developing skills" and "overcoming challenges" (technical) .. so even his current 6sp setup is adequate .... but I guess looking forwards he's likely to see shaving a minute or so off a run as a challenge as well.... I totally agree a 1x10 is enough.... I guess the question is if 1x8 is as that's a major manufacturer watershed into cassette only/chainwheel/chain that then determines hub ???
I think that was how I started my whole thought process... working out how much to invest in his current bike vs starting off building a replacement?? and the price of a rear hub, wheel build and finding anything crank wise seems like wasted investment.... if he can move onto a 24" wheel in the next few months ....
Then as you say, Dan is almost on the 26" XS.....
So .... crystallising my thoughts
20" stuck with BB/cranks and no real effective susp forks = no real investment....
24" can get decent groupsets and plus/minus disc brakes (your input invaluable) and fairly decent fork but you still need wheels etc. Decent groupset likely to outlast the bike in terms of his growth (obviously some stuff will need replacing) and he is still going to be light so no real advantage of disc brakes for stopping...
26" XS - could use groupset from 24 (even cranks), transfer brakes and should last and LOTS of 26er frames available so he could keep wheels/forks and groupset for a second 26 frame when he outgrows an extra small....
Then of course he might go any direction from trail riding from downhill to road!
Trail riding seems great right now as I like the no traffic part!
I guess I'm thinking the most effective use of money is on his 1st 26XS ???0 -
oxoman wrote:I feel your pain having been there, brought my oldest lad an Apollo thing and he hated it. Didn't intend making the same mistake again, hence second hand modified 20" giant to start with then his Merida. Like I said he loves it, didn't come off his 20" bike till 9 though. Noticed Merida have downgraded some of the specs on the 2016 bikes gearing wise but upped the forks slightly. At your lads age he will potentially be riding the 24" for a good two years unless he's tall. Good luck
Cheers, despite my meanderings your input has really helped!
My kid's really tall .. which he gets from his Mum not me... (youngest in class but one of the tallest, we don't notice until he's with the group born a week after him who are all a year below him at school but I just checked and he's at 50th%ile for a 7 1/2 yr old not 6 1/2 - though of course nothing says he keeps growing that fast ) ...
The nice blokes at the bike hire place let him try a Scott 24" last week and he was just about OK ... having said that his seatpost has plenty of height left on his 20" (he used about half in 6 mo) so its not desperate to change just a matter of deciding when to spend money.
I'm leaning towards a decent 24" rim brake/thumb shifters/freewheel .. 2nd hand and then spend some money on a fork ...
Or even I see a 2015 Merida on eBay for £199 (the sport not comp but with Altus 8sp so I could just change forks and grip shifts...) I'm guessing the frame is really the same....???
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERIDA-MATTS- ... 3641.l63680 -
oxoman wrote:Yes the frames the same just the forks, colour and gears that change. Frog bikes aren't to bad either looked at them but decided the merida was the better option at the time as I didn't need to alter anything.
Thanks, I was actually wondering about the rear clearance on the Frog (as its sold as a hybrid)... as in how wide a tyre/rim between the rear triangle (width wise)? Their website says the come with a 24x1.75" tyre and I was wondering if a 24x2.25-24x2.5 or so would actually fit or rub the stays...??
I'm thinking of semi-fat in a way ... we currently run a low pressure 20x2.125 on the Pinnacle0 -
POAH wrote:
Sod it!
Now you have me back in the build mode!
Really nice 24" wheels....
A big thing is he actually asked to design and build his next bike.
I'm all for that because I think it will really help him respect it and take care of it ....
and ... he's currently on-track for being an engineer something I'm happy to encourage (LOL he's 6 but ....)
Now I'm going to have to rerun the figures...0
