Pinion belt drive gearbox.

Clockworkmark31

Just seen this on the new Nicolai Ion GPI.

Seems interesting and has me curious, think it looks cool, sounds heavy though.

Could it be the future? I like the concept of it.

The Rookie

Seen what? Linky?

kickaxe

http://shop.nicolai.net/index.php/fullys-x/ion-gpi.html

Seems interesting and yes, it could have potential, but at the moment you have to completely stop pedaling to shift, which would drive me crazy...

codfather

It's a very good idea in theory, but you'd be foolish to buy one at this stage.
The Nicolai is essentially a proof of concept/technical exercise/feasibility study, so undoubtedly will have its flaws. You can draw parallels between the Ion and the first batch of mass produced electric cars; a great idea, but the execution of the first iteration will always be lacking (think G-Wizz). Then over the subsequent five/ten years, the concept is further refined, the creases ironed out and the result is a more polished, but still imperfect product. The mountain bike itself is a comparatively young invention in the form we know it and even after 40-50 years, it's being further refined with every passing year and still far from perfect.

The trouble is, if no-one buys in at the proof of concept stage, there won't be a 2nd/3rd/4th iteration for the right thinking to capitalise on. It's a pickle alright.....

rockmonkeysc

Gearboxes on bikes seem to come and go. No one has quite got it right yet and I'm not sure a pinion box is the right choice, no shifting under power and not ideal for efficiency.
I really like the idea of a gearbox, the derailleur is probably the weakest link on modern mountain bikes.

codfather

A friend's dad built his own gearbox-ed enduroey rig a few years ago with some vast 'box above the bottom bracket. Steel tubes, hand made; weighed an unbelievable amount and you had to ride it completely bow legged due to the width of the box. Fun to mess around on, a great curiosity, but not something you'd want to ride very often.
If something the exact opposite of that bike (in execution) came along at a reasonable price I'd more than happily buy it. The whole drivetrain system on bikes is so outdated, but that happens when you have incremental evolution from manufacturing one-upmanship rather than true revolution.

rockmonkeysc

I'd quite like a Zeroed G2. Uses a Shimano Alfine geared hub as a gearbox but mounted in the front triangle.

codfather

I think the home build may have been Alfine 8 speed.
G2's are great, but I'm still uncomfortable with how ready people are to pretend that they're "reasonably priced". The frame only is some £2400 and for my money I'd want something without the super thick top tube and ancient-Glory-esque shock mounting.
The G2 is a step in the right direction, but I guarantee if you buy one now you'll look back in anger when a more refined version of the platform comes along in 2-3 years or so

rockmonkeysc

Have you ridden a G2? It's pretty damn refined as it is. £2400 is expensive but most DH frames cost around £2000 anyway.
It's not particularly heavy, the rear suspension is excellent and it's very stiff. As a bonus, you can shift gear without pedalling.

codfather

Idled around on one at BUCS DH last year, but couldn't claim to have ridden it per se. The one I rode was hatefully configured and set up, clearly a "mummy and daddy funded" build. I suppose my expectations of how much things should cost are some way out of line with reality anyway.

rockmonkeysc

There's a difference between what things should cost and what they actually cost!

codfather

I blame brands like YT for making me think a reasonable downhill bike should be available for £1500.

rockmonkeysc

But on the budget YT and similar Rose Unchained you get a lot of components which aren't really very good. The Boxxer RC fork is pretty nasty and the wheels are pretty much disposable.
I can't think of any DH bike I would buy for under £3000 new.

codfather

I suppose this is the issue with living in the second hand market. To find anything with comparable specs to my current build for instance, you have to look at at least thrice as much as it cost me to build.
I'm spoilt by now having higher tier suspension these days. Begin to forget that basic units are specced on most bikes. Chances of me buying a brand new big bike any time soon is unlikely; I fancy a Summum at some point, but chances of buying a Mond new approach zero

Clockworkmark31

Didn't know that you had to stop peddling to shift, seems flawed if you can't shift under load.

Hell no I'm not buying one, but I liked the concept of it from what I read in MBR. And thought it seemed like a good idea. Just wondered what other people thought. Seems like it would be 90% maintenance free, no more grit grinding metal to metal.

Who knows maybe in five years it would be standard using electric shifting.

rockmonkeysc

I won't buy another new DH bike. I don't like 27.5" for downhill, tried it and prefer 26" so I might just look for a used carbon Devinci Wilson frame this year.

codfather

I haven't ridden 27.5" DH yet, don't really plan to; aluminium and 26" is working well for me for the time being. I've heard contrasting owners opinions on Wilsons, not a big fan of the linkage design.

rockmonkeysc

Best downhill bike I have ridden by a long way. I'd take one over a Santa Cruz V10 or Intense M9. That rear linkage works extremely well.

codfather

I haven't ridden one, so am not in a position to pass judgement. I wouldn't say no to a V10/M9, but they're certainly not at the top of my wishlist, nor the gravely overhyped Demo. Chap I ride with races a 951 and though it's semi-permanently broken to some degree, it rides very nicely. I've always wanted an Aurum; not the new carbon ones, too ugly, but the old aluminium framed Aurums were a beautiful shape. Had a chance to buy one immediately before I pulled the trigger on the Scalp but it was in that godawful shade of yellow they insist on using.

rockmonkeysc

I also nearly bought an Aurum instead of the Scalp. It's a good ride but I was put right off by the Evans store being staffed entirely by roadies. The Aurum doesn't seem to last well, they seem to look and sound really bad after a couple years.

codfather

I came to a similar conclusion. Even the "one season of light use" frames looked like they'd seen a WC season and a trip to Utah somehow. With the Scalp as it sits and the previous Aurum coming with a Vector, I can't see myself ever finding a reason to go that way, rather than the Summum. But the Scalp feels fantastic, so I see no need for a change frame any time soon. I could fancy a bit more in the way of adjustability in the forks though

rockmonkeysc

The other thing to put me off the Aurum is if you read the warranty terms it excludes extreme riding, including downhill, jumps, drops and racing. I'm not sure what they expect you to use it for.
The Scalp is absolutely bomb proof. Three years of abuse and racing and it still rides like new.

codfather

Mmm sounds like excessive arse covering to me. Like all of Fox's service intervals.
Now owning the Scalp, I start to regret living in such a flat and featureless part of the country, barely ridden it yet. Might get over to some freeride-y stuff at the weekend and porc next month, but it feels like it needs a proper hooning soon.

cycleclinic

To shift under load you would need a clutch and sycromesh. DH rigs are becoming more like motorbikes all the time.

Clockworkmark31

thecycleclinic wrote:

To shift under load you would need a clutch and sycromesh. DH rigs are becoming more like motorbikes all the time.

Will admit I am not too clued up on gear boxes, that being said I understand the basic principle of something to take the "load" (clutch) whilst changing.

Is there a reason a "derailleur" system could not be used in this application?

Or have I completely missed the point?