Giant Defy 5 vs Verenti Belief

WantToBeFitter

I'm looking to commute 20 miles per day to work on bumpy roads. I weight 17 stone which may make a difference to road comfort. Looking to spend as little as possible due to not knowing what I want in a bike.

Which of these two bikes should I get (they both fit fine):-
Giant Defy 5 (2015):
6 months old second-hand but in fantastic condition.
Only has Claris groupset (9 speed)
Has eyelets for rear rack
Non-carbon fork
No internal cabling
Cost £215

Verenti Belief (2015):
Brand new
Has the Tiagra groupset (10 speed)
Doesn't have rear rack eyelets
Carbon fork
Internal cabling
Cost £270

So really the questions I should ask are:
1) Would a carbon fork be beneficial for the type of mileage I'd do and the weight I am?
2) Would I notice the difference in riding a carbon fork?
3) Is the Tiagra groupset a vast improvement over the Claris? I'm not fussed about the extra gears but more concerned with reliability and robustness (wouldn't intend to upgrade unless I have to)?
4) Could I fit a rear rack to the Verenti Belief even though it doesn't have eyelets?
5) Could I fit mudguards to either bike?
6) Is the Verenti Belief a significant improvement two warrant £55 (peanuts I know but as a first bike cheap as poss).

Anything else I should be aware of?

Cheers guys.

dj58

Hello,

Looking at the spec. of the Verenti Belief SR2.0, is that the model? on the Wiggle website, It states PLEASE NOTE Maximum tyre clearance 23c wide tyres. At your weight I think you would be better with 25C wide tyres, also you need to check the spoke count of the wheels on both bikes, ideally you need 36 spoke F&R for reliability.

If the Defy is S.H. presumably you can go and view that bike and do a spoke count, the Defy will take mudguards, (Giant specific make) and 25c tyres and a rack if required. A carbon fork would be good for the additional dampening of road buzz and if you are buying new is something to look for, however the aluminium fork on the Defy 5 won't be bad.

External cable routing is more straight forward from a maintenance point

Edit both bikes appear to have 32 spokes F&R.

WantToBeFitter

Thanks DJ58.

Yes it is was Verenti Belief SR2.0. Based on what you have said I won't go for this now.

I'll now compare the Giant Defy 5 and the Verenti Defense WR2.1 (Sora groupset, carbon fork, mudguards & rack mount, £300).

I guess it now comes down to:
Giant Defy 5 vs Verenti Defense WR2.1
2nd-hand vs brand new
non carbon forks vs carbon forks
Claris vs Sora
Giant frame vs Verenti frame
£85 difference

Will make a decision by tomorrow - so which one?

dj58

The gearing on the Verenti Defense WR2.1 is taller 50/34T 12-27T(9sp), than the Defy 50/34T 11-32T(8sp), you may or may not be ok with 34T-27T as your lowest gear? Shimano website specs. say you can use a 11-30T(9sp) cassette with the Sora RD-3500 SS or GS model.

dj58

You are getting a 3yr frame warranty with the new Verenti, were as the frame warranty on the Giant only applies to the first owner, the Verenti comes with mudguards fitted and a carbon fork. Buy the one that you like the look of and fits your needs the best.

grenw

Plenty of places offering the 2015 Defy 5 new for £299 if the warranty is an issue.

WantToBeFitter

Thanks for your responses. DJ58 all that technical stuff goes over my head.
Warranty isn't a concern. I've decided on the Giant Defy 5. It looks very nice and I understand that Giant do good frames. The non-carbon forks was a concern but if you are saying that the fork on the Defy 5 will handle the road buzz well enough then it will be fine as a cheap road bike. I'll splash out on something expensive once I know what I want in a bike.

dj58

The Defy is a good first bike due to it's stable endurance geometry and will be fine for commuting. Keep an eye on the rear wheel spokes and keep the tyres pumped up to an appropriate pressure for your weight. The Defy should have 25c wide tyres as O.E. if not swop to that size immediately, enjoy the ride.

WantToBeFitter

Thanks again.
Speaking of tyres, the Defy 5 has 25mm tyres as standard on it.

What is the maximum tyre I can fit on the Defy 5?
I understand I can fit a maximum of 25mm with the special Giant mudguards, or a maximum of 28mm without mudguards - is this correct?

With my weight (17 stone) would 28mm pumped up to the max be the most comfy ride for me?
Can anyone recommend a quick tyre for durability? Possibly the Schwalbe Marathon tyre?

dj58

When I bought my Defy I was told the maximum width tyre to use with or without the Giant specific mudguards was 25c. Some people have fitted 28c tyres, you will need to check the clearance to the underside of the brake caliper to determine if there is sufficient clearance with 28c tyres.

The Giant rims are only 14-15mm wide internally so don't try to fit anything larger than 28c, buy tyres with a foldable bead, saves weight and can be easier to fit. Everyone has their personal favourites, have a read through the reviews

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/winter-road-bike-tyres-3139
http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/171398-buyers-guide-best-tyres-keep-you-cycling-through-winter
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/choosing-road-tyres-autumn-winter/

gimpl

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19782132#p19782132]WantToBeFitter[/url] wrote:

Thanks again.
Speaking of tyres, the Defy 5 has 25mm tyres as standard on it.

What is the maximum tyre I can fit on the Defy 5?
I understand I can fit a maximum of 25mm with the special Giant mudguards, or a maximum of 28mm without mudguards - is this correct?

With my weight (17 stone) would 28mm pumped up to the max be the most comfy ride for me?
Can anyone recommend a quick tyre for durability? Possibly the Schwalbe Marathon tyre?

We are the same weight and I have a Defy 1 with a lower spoke count wheel so you should be fine. What size is the Defy though? I'm on an XL and the defy mudguards don't fit that frame. I have Cruds on mine http://www.wiggle.co.uk/crud-roadracer-mk2-mudguard-set/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360392556&ci_src=18615224&ci_sku=5360392556uk&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=srqZkW3Qv_dc%7cpcrid%7c71714705102%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cprd%7c5360392556uk

With these I can only fit 23 mm tyres on. Not perfect and would prefer 25 mm but they're ok. Check the Defy mudguards fit first as that will influence which tyre size to go for.

Make wise I swear by Continentals (GP 4 Seasons or Gatorskins) but others swear by Shwalbe, some Vittoria. Really it comes down to personal preference and personally I'm never buying Vittoria again, hopeless.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Don't hang about too long, I think Wiggle's sale ends within the next ~30 hours!

dj58

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19782446#p19782446]Gimpl[/url] wrote:

We are the same weight and I have a Defy 1 with a lower spoke count wheel so you should be fine. What size is the Defy though? I'm on an XL and the defy mudguards don't fit that frame. I have Cruds on mine http://www.wiggle.co.uk/crud-roadracer-mk2-mudguard-set/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360392556&ci_src=18615224&ci_sku=5360392556uk&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=srqZkW3Qv_dc%7cpcrid%7c71714705102%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cprd%7c5360392556uk

With these I can only fit 23 mm tyres on. Not perfect and would prefer 25 mm but they're ok. Check the Defy mudguards fit first as that will influence which tyre size to go for.

Make wise I swear by Continentals (GP 4 Seasons or Gatorskins) but others swear by Shwalbe, some Vittoria. Really it comes down to personal preference and personally I'm never buying Vittoria again, hopeless.

What was the problem with the Defy guards on the XL frame, rear guard slotted mounting hole not lining up with the thread boss on the back of the seat tube? Or rear guard not long enough to reach the threaded boss on the back of the seat tube?

OP wants to fit 28c tyres which means he won't be able to fit the Cruds or the first generation narrow Defy specific mudguards. These newer model guards may be made to fit, they are for the Defy with the D Fuse seat tube, will fit 28c tyres.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/gear/product/giant.speedshield.defy.avail.aluxx.fender/592/73459/

gimpl

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19782686#p19782686]DJ58[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19782446#p19782446]Gimpl[/url] wrote:

We are the same weight and I have a Defy 1 with a lower spoke count wheel so you should be fine. What size is the Defy though? I'm on an XL and the defy mudguards don't fit that frame. I have Cruds on mine http://www.wiggle.co.uk/crud-roadracer-mk2-mudguard-set/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360392556&ci_src=18615224&ci_sku=5360392556uk&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=srqZkW3Qv_dc%7cpcrid%7c71714705102%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cprd%7c5360392556uk

With these I can only fit 23 mm tyres on. Not perfect and would prefer 25 mm but they're ok. Check the Defy mudguards fit first as that will influence which tyre size to go for.

Make wise I swear by Continentals (GP 4 Seasons or Gatorskins) but others swear by Shwalbe, some Vittoria. Really it comes down to personal preference and personally I'm never buying Vittoria again, hopeless.

What was the problem with the Defy guards on the XL frame, rear guard slotted mounting hole not lining up with the thread boss on the back of the seat tube? Or rear guard not long enough to reach the threaded boss on the back of the seat tube?

OP wants to fit 28c tyres which means he won't be able to fit the Cruds or the first generation narrow Defy specific mudguards. These newer model guards may be made to fit, they are for the Defy with the D Fuse seat tube, will fit 28c tyres.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/gear/product/giant.speedshield.defy.avail.aluxx.fender/592/73459/

As you suspected they weren't long enough to get anywhere near the hole on the seat tube plus when I had them on my Rapid previously they rattled like fcuk! To the point where my riding buddies refused to go out with me and no amount of fettling made any difference.

No we are talking about the older Rapid/Defy frame with the older guards. I have noticed in my local Giant dealer that the new guards (presumably for the new frame) are a plastic composite (not the ones you linked to) and presumably fit the new frames. May well be worth a try but again apparently (according to the LBS) they don't fit an XL frame.

WantToBeFitter

All these little things you need to be aware of.

Well FYI - I purchased a couple of 28mm Schwable Marathon to stick on the Defy 5. Not going to have mudguards as having 28mm tyres is a bigger priority.

Two questions,
1) Is the Claris groupset (2015) robust and its just the less gears that makes it cheaper, or is it just lesser quality and more likely to break?
2) I have the Defy model without the carbon forks. Are aluminum forks stronger than carbon and therefore, oddly, the Defy 5 is better suited to me because of my 17 stone weight?

Thanks.

dj58

WantToBeFitter wrote:

All these little things you need to be aware of.

Well FYI - I purchased a couple of 28mm Schwable Marathon to stick on the Defy 5. Not going to have mudguards as having 28mm tyres is a bigger priority.

Two questions,
1) Is the Claris groupset (2015) robust and its just the less gears that makes it cheaper, or is it just lesser quality and more likely to break?
2) I have the Defy model without the carbon forks. Are aluminum forks stronger than carbon and therefore, oddly, the Defy 5 is better suited to me because of my 17 stone weight?

Thanks.

The Claris 8sp groupset has less gears than the higher tier groupsets, Sora 9sp, Tiagra 10sp, 105/Ultegra 11sp and will be heavier and made of lower quality materials, made to a price. If it all works just use it and replace when worn out, if it still has the original chain fitted, check it for wear and replace if it is at 0.75 point, otherwise the rear sprockets can start to wear excessively.

The Aluxx Defy carbon fork is not a full carbon variant, steerer tube, fork crown and wheel dropouts are aluminium, only the fork legs are carbon fibre. You would be fine with either the alu./carbon hybrid or the full aluminium fork.
Maximum weight for the Defy Bicycle is, rider weight 275lbs plus 10lbs luggage total 285lbs.

You can use something like this to protect you from rear wheel spray.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sks-s-blade-28-rear-guard/

Additionally, one thing I would strongly recommend is that you replace the standard Tektro brake calipers with Shimano 5800 105 brake calipers because they will give you improved braking and have been designed for use with 28c tyres. The standard Shimano brake pads are good, however if you need additional braking power you can change them for Swissstop Flash Pro BXP Blue pads or Koolstop Salmon.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-105-5800-brake-caliper/
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... rake-pads/
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/kool-stop-dura- ... e-inserts/

WantToBeFitter

Thanks DJ58 for your help.

To be honest, a lot of what you're mentioning I don't understand (i.e. replace the chain at 0.75 point). The bike is only six months old and not ridden more than 500 miles so I expect all to be new still and good for a year or two (I would hope anyway).

I won't replace the brakes yet as again I need to understand the bike first before I go tinkering.
I was going to stick a rack on and some pannier bags but opted for streamline and will wear a rucksack instead. Just the bike, 28mm tyres and me with a rucksack.

The mudguard you suggested apparently loosens easily so I'm not sure about that one.
Can I ask - why did you suggest just the rear mudguard? I've also notice that they either sell them in front AND rear as a set or JUST the rear. Why is this? Is the rear spray more problematic than the front spray?

dj58

The chain may be ok at 500 miles, depends how well it has been maintained, watch this video'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LqTmvuf6tw

On the few rides I did on my bike in the wet before fitting mudguards, I noticed that the size and shape of the Defy down tube directed front wheel spray down to the road, whereas the rear wheel spray as you would expect was directed at the seat post/saddle and lower back. Rear spray can be more problematic, depends what you can put up with, what clothing you wear, that's why I suggested a rear clip on type guard.

There are other makes of clip on guard http://www.wiggle.co.uk/zefal-swan-road-rear-mudguard/ Not sure if you can fit a typical clip on mudguard to a Defy fork, other than those made buy Giant.

You can buy pannier racks that feature a solid top panel which also act as a deflector.

WantToBeFitter

Went with the Zefal Wan Road rear mudguard in the end. Haven't gone with the front mudguard as I would like to keep the bike as wind-resistant/clutter-less as possible. Just hope that a front mudguard isn't essential.

Another question, having now on the way a couple of Schwable Marathon Originals tyres in size 28mm on the way I wonder if I need some upgraded inner tubes rather than the stock inner tubes that come with the Giant Defy 5 as standard?
Would the 28mm tyres require bigger inner tubes or would 17 stone require bigger inner tubes, or are the standard Defy 5 inner tubes top quality as it is?

gmacz

I have a defy3 xl and have always had defy mudguards fitted. Perfect fit with a wee bit of tissue stuffed between frame and top of mudguard to stop an annoying rattle on the front.
Rear is fine.
Noise free and good design.

dj58

The inner tubes fitted to the 25c tyres on the Defy would be ok with your new 28c tyres, however it is good practice to fit new inner tubes with new tyres, you can then use the original fit inner tubes as your spares to carry with you, in case of a flat when out on the road.

You want standard weight tubes, not light weight, to match to the tyre and rim so look for tubes with a range 700c x 20/28 40mm long presta valve, like this Specialized one. Other brands are available

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec041800