[Video] YT Capra 2016 - Linkage Review
AndreXTR
Posts: 64
Hi guys, just to share some info about the rear suspension of YT Capra 2016 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl2beu1AWM
Bye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl2beu1AWM
Bye
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It nothing special, very average. Certainly not super progressive and pedalling efficiency is well known to be a bit rubbish.
It's a reasonable bike but I wouldn't buy one. Too much suspension for UK riding.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
nice work, glad someone invested some time to analyze suspension dynamics for common riders, it was time to see over the cloud of advertisment and fancy accronyms the industry uses
Keep up the good work!!!“I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
― Kurt Vonnegut0 -
nice work, glad someone invested some time to analyze suspension dynamics for common riders, it was time to see over the cloud of advertisment and fancy accronyms the industry uses
Keep up the good work!!!
Except that the graphics were taken from YTs marketing stuff and the comments bear no relation to what the graphics actually show. There's a spring rate graph showing a relatively linear spring and a comment saying super progressive.
It's basically just meaningless toss.
No mention of the rather fragile frame either.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
@RockMonkeySC Are you kidding me rigth? Yes I call the YT marketing guys to send me the graphs !!
You don't know nothing what you are talking about my friend.
If you want to do the simulation for yourself:
http://www.bikechecker.com/
Bye
PS: Are all of your 12.300 posts like that ? Jesus .... 0 -
Bye
PS: Are all of your 12.300 posts like that ? Jesus ....
12.3 posts? but yes all his 12300 posts are like that, RMSC is a cycling god with friends who have ridden every bike under the sun
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Yes, Osuna has a great blog and database and I dont want to match with him. In my video I created an new simulation model for the CF PRO (which has more travel and a bigger shock than the standard Capra), and I did an independent analysis with my own opinions & comments
I also have a serie of videos where I try to share some knowledge about rear suspension basics & fundamentals.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4tH8eqoJoZ-puE8n0kDNVdCuKL7ySEAv
Bye 0 -
The Capra has decent enough suspension but nothing special. It's certainly not super progressive, that spring rate graph shows a relatively linear rate, I would prefer something which ramps up more at the end.
It's the failure rate of the carbon Capra frames which would put me off buying one.
All of those graphs are meaningless without comparisons to other competitors bikes of a similar style. Without benchmark curves or figures there is no baseline with which to compare and all you have is meaningless data.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
RMSC, the LR is quite progressive, starting at 3.25 and goes up to 1.95 at the end of the travel, add the increased resistance from the air compressing in the shock and you will get the idea, a linear suspension would start at 3,25 and stay equal or with minor change through out the travel and the bottom out resistance would be only handled by the increased compression of the damper“I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
― Kurt Vonnegut0 -
RMSC I want to believe that the OP has done some comparisson with other similar bikes and concluded that the capra is quite progressive, if not then you are wright, the data is meaningless without a benchmark set, but on the other hand the graph is by no mean linear, maybe not progressive enough for the intended use, although the numbers clearly show a progressive curve 3.25 to 1.95 on paper and only this is progressive, on a suspension maybe is a tad low, who knows, direct comparisson with other bikes will give us a better idea“I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
― Kurt Vonnegut0 -
If he has compared figures to get to his conclusions then why leave them out.
Without justification of how you get to a conclusion it's just a meaningless opinion.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
@rockmonkey Hundreds of examples of kinematics on the linkagededign site to compare this bike to.
Thanks for the info Andre some of us do appreciate your efforts. Don't let rockmonkey deter you.0 -
Hi guys!
The data shown is only meaningless if you don't understand the concepts behind it. I only showed the graphs and the main conclusions to make a short video. If you have interest to learn more about suspension theory, and leverage ratios, you can check my previous videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1dUV6pYztg
And if you want to learn more about progressivity, forces & systems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViSyAOKYnqw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78DD82fx4M8
Going back to CAPRA, its one of the most progressives bikes out there. Leverage ratio decreased from 3.2 to 1.9, which is huge (1.3 of difference) ! Most bikes have a LR difference ranging from -0.5 to +1 (negative differences for regressive bikes, ZERO to full linear bikes, and above 0.5 for progressive bikes).
But OK, lets do the comparison! YT CAPRA vs Specialized ENDURO 650B
Leverage Ratios
Force Curve (simulated with an COIL shock for both bikes)
Note that in the above picture, and in Capra video, I simulated the force curves with a Coil shock because coil shocks are linear (are neutral in the system because they don't add extra progressivity), and its easier to simulate and to compare different bikes. To simulate an air shock it is needed several parameters (such as internal main chamber diameter, negative air chamber diameter, chamber lengths, etc etc). Therefore a simulation with a coil shock gives results compatible with real-world. Of course that if you mount an air shock in Capra ou Enduro, the curve of forces will ramp up at the end of the travel due the contribution of the air shock (which is more progressive than coil).
At the end of the day CAPRA is +80% progressive than Spec. ENDURO. Does this make Capra a good bike? It depends, if you are not an hardcore rider maybe its too much progressivity for you! BTW, Nomad III is also a super progressive bike (3200N to bottom out for a 70kg rider with 25% SAG and coil shock)
I hope you understood
Sorry my english, I'm from Portugal 0 -
I've ridden a Capra and an Enduro and that's not how it feels. The Capra felt like a typical German bike, a bit too linear while the Enduro ramps up nicely.
Do those figures take in to account the shock ramp up as well as linkage?
Like I said before, the Capra is good but nothing special. It sells based on value rather than being the best performing frame. The Enduro rear suspension is brilliant (until it destroys the shock).Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Do those figures take in to account the shock ramp up as well as linkage?
someone didn't read the post correctly lolHi guys!
Note that in the above picture, and in Capra video, I simulated the force curves with a Coil shock because coil shocks are linear (are neutral in the system because they don't add extra progressivity), and its easier to simulate and to compare different bikes. To simulate an air shock it is needed several parameters (such as internal main chamber diameter, negative air chamber diameter, chamber lengths, etc etc). Therefore a simulation with a coil shock gives results compatible with real-world. Of course that if you mount an air shock in Capra ou Enduro, the curve of forces will ramp up at the end of the travel due the contribution of the air shock (which is more progressive than coil).0 -
with an air shock ramp up will be much more progressive, but more complicated to reach the at same conclusion, here the point is to show how progressive suspension kinematics act, the shock can be modified or replaced the kinematics unfortunatelly come fixed with the bike.
RMSC no one said capra is the best or a good bike here, it just came up as an exsample of a progressive suspension layout nothing more“I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
― Kurt Vonnegut0
