Micro rant...

llebend
llebend Posts: 27
edited January 2016 in Commuting chat
So,

Happy New Year all.

I had to take my kids to Kingston University on Sunday, this meant circum-navigating Richmond park on the route. I must admit to being a bit loathed to take this route as it is always a pain in the arse with the little roads around the park.

Anyway, I have cycled and driven for something like 25+ years and ridden motorbikes in that time to. I think I would be fair in saying that I am a fairly considerate road user. I don't speed, I am conscious of a cyclists needs on the road and how much space I need to give them. I am also a bit of a 'time' freak in that I always leave loads of time to get somewhere, so consequently, I am never in a rush and have a fairly relaxed attitude to life in general.

However, the amount of abuse I received and other vehicles around me received from the cyclists heading to Richmond park was staggering! I counted 25 incidents of shouting at various cars, visual indication of anger/aggression, where the car had done no wrong other than being unable to move or get through some roadworks or was unable to make space for cyclists to undertake due to the road size and oncoming traffic, my car window was punched and I was abused through the window when I was unable to cross a traffic junction due to a stalled vehicle, not an awful lot I can do about that! This incident alone caused my kids to scream in fear and cry, they are now also aware of the word 'w4nk3r'. I mean, really?! Normally I would have cleared the junction, but the unfortunate lady in front of me took a few seconds to restart her car and compose herself, leaving myself and another vehicle across the threshold and in the middle....I witnessed;

cycling on the pavement - with speed
red light running

When did cycling get so aggressive? It was Sunday morning at 10am. I have never witnessed such a mass of pompous, selfish bin sacks full of fat sh1t in years!

I used to really like cycling (to the point of holding a cat 2 race licence and mountain bike racing), but if I am now associated with the nouveau chic self centred set, cycling can f*ck off and I will go back to running, driving and the motorbike.

Rant done!

Comments

  • rhodrich
    rhodrich Posts: 867
    I avoid Richmond Park at weekends, both on the bike, and in the car, for this very reason.

    However, I am genuinely surprised about the 'aggression' meted out to you by cyclists. I've never had anything like that when driving a car. I do however get close passes, left hooks, hooting, rude shouts from windows from motorists all the time simply for crimes such as 'taking the lane' and 'avoiding the sub-standard cycle path'.
    1938 Hobbs Tandem
    1956 Carlton Flyer Path/Track
    1960 Mercian Superlight Track
    1974 Pete Luxton Path/Track*
    1980 Harry Hall
    1986 Dawes Galaxy
    1988 Jack Taylor Tourer
    1988 Pearson
    1989 Condor
    1993 Dawes Hybrid
    2016 Ridley Helium SL
    *Currently on this
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,562
    I live very close to the park and it's not a particularly nice place when it's busy. Yes, you do get some complete tools in there, but no more than anywhere else. There are just too many people that believe they have priority over everybody else. They just need to chill out, take a step back and be more considerate of other people. This applies to a small percentage of all groups. Never had that level of abuse though and I've lived in Kingston for 25 years or so and used the park daily for over 15 years.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,659
    Lotta stress in that part of the world from everyone.

    See my rant in the rants thread.
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    Lotta stress in that part of the world from everyone.

    See my rant in the rants thread.
    London Dynamo club ride you reckon?
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • vimfuego
    vimfuego Posts: 1,783
    Lotta stress in that part of the world from everyone.

    See my rant in the rants thread.
    London Dynamo club ride you reckon?
    :lol:
    CS7
    Surrey Hills
    What's a Zwift?
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    RP on a weekend morning is full of nobs, but I have never experienced any abuse myself. If I was shouted at 25 times in quick succession, I'm not sure I would be blaming everyone else, I might start to question whether maybe it was me?!
  • llebend
    llebend Posts: 27
    RP on a weekend morning is full of nobs, but I have never experienced any abuse myself. If I was shouted at 25 times in quick succession, I'm not sure I would be blaming everyone else, I might start to question whether maybe it was me?!

    I witnessed around (I lost count) 25 incidents of shouting/abuse in the 30 minutes it took me to navigate around the park. Other vehicles as well as mine, I only got a facefull once, but it was enough.

    So, not just me I am afraid. I was pretty shocked as I have never seen anything this bad and this aggressive!
  • It was a new moon on Sunday. Perhaps cyclists are out of phase with werewolves?
  • llebend
    llebend Posts: 27
    It was a new moon on Sunday. Perhaps cyclists are out of phase with werewolves?

    :-)

    Maybe Uranus was not inline with Bontrager.......
  • I've been cycling in the park for nearly 30 odd years. Back in the mid 80's I would only pass a handful of cyclists as I whizzed round on my Falcon road bike, also there wasn't as many cars as there are now. Cycling as a sport has gained so much in popularity over recent years and the park has become busier over the years, motorists queing to park in White lodge car park would have been unheard of in the past but now you see traffic jams and regular bust ups with people fighting over parking spaces. Also it is quite common to see motorists just to stop in the road to watch the deer this causes frustration with both other drivers and cyclists. It doesn't matter what mode of transport a person is using, if they are a t**t they will be the same if they are cycling or driving. I use the park both driving and cycling weekly and have never had any problems to speak about. I did have a driver scream f*&king cyclists at me and my 10year old son last summer as he drove past, quite odd as he was an older man with two old passengers in his car. Also had a cyclist shout at my wife to get out of the F%&king way while she was crossing the road at a crossing point and he passed a good 5 seconds after she was on the other side. But considering the amount of people that use the park I think that incidents on the whole are relatively few.
    Fat lads take longer to stop.
  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129
    I was in the park on Sunday morning, I even saw someone stall at the roundabout where you turn right towards Sheen Gate, no idea if it's the same incident you are referring to. Cars stopped, some cyclists stopped, some filtered up the inside, no cyclists were screaming abuse at the cars. At no stage in the time I was there - just over an hour - did I see any aggression towards cars by cyclists. I saw a car driver overtake 3 slow moving cyclists going up Dark Hill round the blind bend at the top of the second ramp, into the path of some other cyclists descending, who had to take evasive action on to the verge. I saw plenty of cars overtake cyclists who were going at the speed limit. I saw plenty of cars blocking the road trying to turn right into the Pembroke Lodge car park. I saw a car driver sound his horn and make the w@nker sign as he overtook two older cyclists who were cycling 2 abreast, having a bit of a chat, as you might want to on a Sunday morning in a park.

    In 22 years of driving a car and riding a bike, I have experienced maybe a dozen incidents of idiotic and dangerous cycling (and the cyclist is putting himself in danger), and only aggression from cyclists where their life has been put in danger by inattentive or dangerous driving. I have never, ever seen anyone riding on the pavement "at speed", though I may be lucky in that regard. I have seen people ride on the pavements, to avoid horrendous traffic, but I have only seen this at walking pace. I probably experience idiotic, inattentive, dangerous and illegal driving a dozen times per day, whether I'm in my car or on my bike.

    When did driving get so aggressive? I have never seen so many fat, selfish, pompous, entitled, sacks of sh!t in my life.

    My anecdote is just as good as yours, and probably contains more truth.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,530
    Lahndahn, innit.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • davmaggs
    davmaggs Posts: 1,008
    Cycling has probably become the new golf or replacement for spending on motorbikes so it attracts a different type of bloke than years gone by. I'd say too that as cycling's popularity has gone up it makes it easier to use your numbers to give yourself priority over others at certain popular locations like Richmond park or the Surrey Hills.

    Richmond Park itself has become far far busier as the fitness boom has brought more and more people into it, and they now get in each others way.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,530
    Richmond Park itself has become far far busier as the fitness boom has brought more and more people into it, and they now get in each others way.
    Should die down by the end of January.
    The gyms will be quiet by then.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • It was a new moon on Sunday. Perhaps cyclists are out of phase with werewolves?

    :-)

    Maybe Uranus was not inline with Bontrager.......
    Doubt it, I generally find their pads very comfy.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Sorry to hear that you had such a cr@ppy experience in the park. Its not acceptable and people should just chill the feck out.

    Maybe i'm lucky, but I go the park fairly regularly on weekends, as its a meeting point for the guys I ride with (at the café and then leave usually out of Kingston gate), but I don't think in the all the time I've been going have I ever seen aggressive behaviour. Maybe some ignorance or wilful breaking of speedlimits or some mildly silly overtaking, but nothing aggressive?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Up here in north Lancashire I experienced an act of aggression against me once while cycling home. A little white van driver drove very quickly up to my back wheel and honked his horn.quite a few angrily. That surprised me no end I tell you. I hope I never experience another act of aggression while out cycling.

    Seriously don't move north. Southerners should have a visa system to come up here because I rarely see any aggression against cyclists up.here. The worst thing that happens is close passes and cars seeing you overtaking at lights so they move right out so you can't get past without riding head on with traffic coming the other way. Easy to avoid, just wait or undertake them. Lancaster was among the first cycling demonstration towns (actually a city since the 60s) so I'd always assumed that was part of the reason.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,659
    I experienced plenty of road rage in Sheffield.
  • I experienced plenty of road rage in Sheffield.
    Yorkshire! Nothing else needs to be said about that. :wink:
  • seajays
    seajays Posts: 331
    I experienced plenty of road rage in Sheffield.
    Yorkshire! Nothing else needs to be said about that. :wink:

    Tha' can allus tell a Yorkshireman… but tha' can't tell 'im much. 8)
    Cannondale CAADX Tiagra 2017
    Revolution Courier Race Disc '14
    My Strava
  • davmaggs
    davmaggs Posts: 1,008
    Richmond Park itself has become far far busier as the fitness boom has brought more and more people into it, and they now get in each others way.
    Should die down by the end of January.
    The gyms will be quiet by then.

    I probably wasn't clear. I didn't mean the January rush, but instead the boom in all sorts of outdoor fitness events like Triathlons, Tough Mudder, 10KMs and cycling that have got more and more people training outside. It wasn't that many years ago when these were more like niche activities, and now just about every workplace or pub will have someone explaining their training regime. Richmond Park just seems to have grown in popularity so people are probably getting in each others way more.
  • keyser__soze
    keyser__soze Posts: 2,067
    I had to take my kids to Kingston University on Sunday, this meant circum-navigating Richmond park on the route.

    All the roads round the outside of the park shut?
    "Mummy Mummy, when will I grow up?"
    "Don't be silly son, you're a bloke, you'll never grow up"
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,530
    Richmond Park itself has become far far busier as the fitness boom has brought more and more people into it, and they now get in each others way.
    Should die down by the end of January.
    The gyms will be quiet by then.

    I probably wasn't clear. I didn't mean the January rush, but instead the boom in all sorts of outdoor fitness events like Triathlons, Tough Mudder, 10KMs and cycling that have got more and more people training outside. It wasn't that many years ago when these were more like niche activities, and now just about every workplace or pub will have someone explaining their training regime. Richmond Park just seems to have grown in popularity so people are probably getting in each others way more.
    I probably wasn't clear.
    I was joking.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • llebend
    llebend Posts: 27

    My anecdote is just as good as yours, and probably contains more truth.

    Apparently not. Drivers have always been aggressive, whereas this is the first I have seen of cyclists.....
  • llebend
    llebend Posts: 27
    I had to take my kids to Kingston University on Sunday, this meant circum-navigating Richmond park on the route.

    All the roads round the outside of the park shut?

    I went around the park, not into it. So, the trouble was the cyclists heading to and from the park as opposed to in it. Apologies - should have been clear. I was fully aware the being in the park would be bad for both cyclist and car, so, thought better of it.
  • llebend
    llebend Posts: 27
    I was surprised by the tormented souls on their 2 wheeled stallions....it was Sunday morning and no one should be in that foul a mood on a Sunday.
  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129

    My anecdote is just as good as yours, and probably contains more truth.

    Apparently not. Drivers have always been aggressive, whereas this is the first I have seen of cyclists.....

    I live in Wimbledon, I have done for 15 years, I drive in and around Kingston/Richmond/Barnes/Sheen regularly at weekends. I see a lot of cyclists, either on their own or in groups, even the somewhat infamous London Dynamo chaingangs/group rides. I have never been abused by a cyclist. Either you were astonishingly unlucky to encounter every single @rsehole on a bike in SW London to be abused on 25 separate occasions in half an hour, or as someone said earlier, you need to look closer to home for the reason...
  • llebend
    llebend Posts: 27

    My anecdote is just as good as yours, and probably contains more truth.

    Apparently not. Drivers have always been aggressive, whereas this is the first I have seen of cyclists.....

    I live in Wimbledon, I have done for 15 years, I drive in and around Kingston/Richmond/Barnes/Sheen regularly at weekends. I see a lot of cyclists, either on their own or in groups, even the somewhat infamous London Dynamo chaingangs/group rides. I have never been abused by a cyclist. Either you were astonishingly unlucky to encounter every single @rsehole on a bike in SW London to be abused on 25 separate occasions in half an hour, or as someone said earlier, you need to look closer to home for the reason...

    As stated to the previous poster; Please re-read my post. I was abused once, for something I, very obviously, had no control over. I witnessed ~25 other situations where abuse occurred to other drivers/individuals where there really was very little or no fault on the driver - over keen and over aggressive cyclists looking to get into RP as quickly as possible. :roll:
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368

    My anecdote is just as good as yours, and probably contains more truth.

    Apparently not. Drivers have always been aggressive, whereas this is the first I have seen of cyclists.....

    I live in Wimbledon, I have done for 15 years, I drive in and around Kingston/Richmond/Barnes/Sheen regularly at weekends. I see a lot of cyclists, either on their own or in groups, even the somewhat infamous London Dynamo chaingangs/group rides. I have never been abused by a cyclist. Either you were astonishingly unlucky to encounter every single @rsehole on a bike in SW London to be abused on 25 separate occasions in half an hour, or as someone said earlier, you need to look closer to home for the reason...

    As stated to the previous poster; Please re-read my post. I was abused once, for something I, very obviously, had no control over. I witnessed ~25 other situations where abuse occurred to other drivers/individuals where there really was very little or no fault on the driver - over keen and over aggressive cyclists looking to get into RP as quickly as possible. :roll:

    and as people keep saying to have even witnessed ~25 separate incidents in such a short space a time, so thats equivalent of 50 random people having completely random arguments with each other, seems completely remarkable, and completely remarkable claims require completely remarkable evidence.

    unless you happened upon some anger management issues club ride, then it just doesnt parse with most peoples experience of using RP with motorists or cyclists behaviour