How does your club rides work?
robgod
Posts: 39
Questions for road club members....
I belong to a fairly new club that has grown to a good number of regular riders.
The problem is that, as the numbers have grown, so has the levels of ability and what people want from the club rides. Some people want a social ride whilst others want to push hard to get faster.
I know bigger clubs have multiple groups but how is the pace dictated/communicated before the start?
How do you deal with people who clearly don't have the ability to keep up with the group ?
How do you cater for social riders and those who want a hard workout?
Any insight to how your clubs work would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rob
I belong to a fairly new club that has grown to a good number of regular riders.
The problem is that, as the numbers have grown, so has the levels of ability and what people want from the club rides. Some people want a social ride whilst others want to push hard to get faster.
I know bigger clubs have multiple groups but how is the pace dictated/communicated before the start?
How do you deal with people who clearly don't have the ability to keep up with the group ?
How do you cater for social riders and those who want a hard workout?
Any insight to how your clubs work would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rob
0
Comments
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I would look at splitting the ride so everyone gets more benefit and enjoyment. The last thing a training focused rider wants is to ride too slow or keep stopping to wait for social riders. The reverse is true as well as some people prefer the social aspect and keeping fit, not trying to push themselves to their physical limit.
As long as it is clear to everyone what to expect and the rides fit those expectations you will be fine. The main challenges are very fast, fit riders and very slow, unfit riders. People will also ride outside the club anyway so this tends to balance things up.0 -
I think you have a choice of Sunday Rides either being a full on "social" ride or split by ability.
In our club we are lucky that we are all of roughly similar ability and we always get around the route roughly as a group. Sometimes when we are close to home a few people may push on and the group will break up.
We only tend to have an issue when you get brand new riders, who can't keep a reasonable pace, or racing whippets turn up. When this happens we tend to naturally split into a couple of groups. This can work well as people can either push on or hang back with the slower group. Our club is smallish, on average around 10 riders.
I know other clubs will run a number of rides on a Sunday aimed at different abilities. Some clubs also run Saturday runs which are aimed at new riders, or riders wanting a faster pace.
Our club is small, so easy to manage, easy going and everyone gets on.
For larger clubs a number of rides can be beneficial as there's nothing worse than 30 people turning up at the cafe stop!0 -
Hi Robgod, I'm lucky to belong to a big club with loads of groups that caters for a large range of abilities from very social to racing. However, it wasn't always like that and as you are experiencing, the bigger the group the wider the abilities. I'm told that when this scenario appeared there was a request to club board to have an A and B group. A group being the faster group. Years on we now have a racing A group (sponsored etc) Fast Intermediates, Intermediates Plus, Intermediates ( 9 o'clock and 10 o'clock groups on Saturdays and a 10 o'clock group on a Sunday) B plus , Bs all the way down to D groups and a Wednesday Wobblers.
People who clearly don't have the ability to keep up? That's been me before. Group rides usually have a catch up at various points in the route, at junctions etc. But, if someone is really not up to it you have to let them know that it would be better to get some more miles/training in with another group or ride buddy. I started a new group as the one I was in was too slow and I was becoming the guy off the back of the next group up. There was a huge gap in ability. So I made a request to form a new group with a different average speed to the groups either side. It had to happen, I had loads of support. I've now got a distribution list of 26 emails.
Each group communicates either by email to the group (coordinated by the relevant group leader who arranges the leaders for their own group rides, ensures the leader plans the route and arranges coffee stop) or posts the ride details on the club website forum.
The group leader is responsible for briefing the group at the meeting point before the ride, explaining the group riding etiquette, group calls ( "oil up"or "oil down" for cars, singling out, pointing out obstructions, pot holes..) Group leader will decide if the group is too big and needs to be split , usually split up if there are over 12 in a group with a second leader and back marker.
If there are members of the group that are struggling ( different to clearly not having the ability, we've all had an off day) the group leader may ask for someone to buddy up, give wheel to help them home. No one should get dropped or stranded , but it has and does happen occasionally.
Any new riders joining my group are given the rough mileage and average speed, if they haven't done the mileage before I tell them to go down a group or 2. I also do the same if they haven't ridden in a group before, advise to go to a slower group and get used to it.
Even the faster groups have a bit of a social element, especially on the way out/warm up. It's the return leg when it gets quiet. The group can string out as it heads home, usually a sprint to 30mph markers on the way back to the village where we start from. Lower ( average speed groups don't do this). Everyone for themselves on hills. I post on our club web site that my group leaders are not expected to be on the front all day, generally in the front 5 or so to give route instructions if no one else has it on their Garmin. The route is usually emailed out for download.
I hope that helps a bit. Sounds exciting to be at the start of a new club. It's not easy catering for everyone...club shirt design, have you done that one yet?0 -
We have advertised average speeds and distances which are 30-40 mile ride at a slower/beginners pace (usually pace of slowest rider) and then a 50 mile ride at 14-16mph. It's down to individuals to choose the groups, although if a rider is trying to ride with the faster group when it's known they won't keep up, it's usually suggested to them to go with the other group (kindly, of course). Then if there are enough of us who want to do a faster 'training' 50 miles instead of a 'social' 50, we will have an extra group doing that. If this can't be done, the 'training' guys just have to live with the slower pace, they can sit on the front all morning if they want to put a bit more effort in and sprint up some of the hills.
It works OK most of the time, obviously sometimes people have a bad day and then the group will slow down for them, or the rider may tell the group to go on if they know the way back. Quite often we'll organise rides so the groups meet up at the same cafe, so if a rider feels they need to slow down then they can go in a different group.
What really matters is having all of your members being honest about their ability and current form. The worst thing you can have is somebody who thinks they're better than the actually are and dragging the group down every week because they won't do the decent thing and ride with the slower group.0 -
I would say Sunday morning rides would be social rides - but split the group into average speed. In our club, the faster groups will take longer routes to the cafe stop - so everyone turns up roughly the same time. The slower group(s) will wait for slower riders but the faster groups will often break up on the way back home as the pace lifts.
But all these will still be Sunday socials. If folks want training rides - they're organised on different days.0 -
I think a lot depends on who is out on the club runs too. Some people are more patient than others.
My old club was pretty good for beginners - there were a few options for gentle rides. But if someone overestimated their abilities and blew up - well nobody on the fast run was going to coax home the ex cross country runner who'd just kicked our arses on that bloody big cllimb and was now paying for it....
Never did see him again. I wonder why ?0 -
I would say Sunday morning rides would be social rides - but split the group into average speed. In our club, the faster groups will take longer routes to the cafe stop - so everyone turns up roughly the same time. The slower group(s) will wait for slower riders but the faster groups will often break up on the way back home as the pace lifts.
But all these will still be Sunday socials. If folks want training rides - they're organised on different days.
The club I'm in does the same. One slower group and one faster. The faster group does a longer journey than the slower group.0 -
My club rides consist of about 40 or 50 riders, split into two main groups (starting at different times) though there is an A and A+ group, which set of together but usually split up.
I've been in a good few clubs (8 or 9) and ridden with loads more and my current club isn't super organized. Even within one group you should be able to cater for different abilities. A good club will do some sort of through and off so that less strong riders either go to the front less, for a shorter time or not at all. Also it's easier to keep together if the stronger riders can be persuaded from not attacking the hills. (even worse if they sit on and ONLY attack the hills!).
We also publish our routes during the week so people can meet up along the route, take short cuts and peal off early because they have the route on their GPS.0 -
Thanks for all the replies. Its really interesting to hear about the difference - and similarities - between the clubs.
We have 3 groups - Beginners evening, Saturday Social and Sunday club ride. The mid-week evening one was stopped over Winter, and we seem to have all abilities turning up for Saturday and Sunday as it suits individuals availability !! So having multiple groups sounds like a simple solution but it needs to be managed properly.
If I had to pinpoint the problem, i'd say it is a lack of experienced ride leaders, and willingness to take control of the groups, pace etc. and make it clear what the intentions are for a particular group.
Having a "Training" ride, with sprints to landmarks sounds like an excellent idea! I'll certainly try and get that one on the agenda.
Yes - club strip, sponsorship, deals with local shops, nominated charities. All done within the first few months of starting. Its the actual "cycling" bit that [edited] causes some issues.Sounds exciting to be at the start of a new club. It's not easy catering for everyone...club shirt design, have you done that one yet?
I'd love to hear of any other tips or suggestions to get the club into shape!
Thanks
Rob0 -
Don't underestimate the amount of paperwork that you need to do if you become a properly affiliated club. There are lots of meeting to be attended, kit to be ordered and held, minutes and accounts to be issued. That's usually the downfall of new clubs - everyone loves cycling but nobody wants to do the work year after year.0
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I can imagine - luckily I don't get involved with that. I'm "just" a member of the club who goes out on a Sunday and occasionally act as ride leader since we have a lack of volunteers.Don't underestimate the amount of paperwork that you need to do if you become a properly affiliated club. There are lots of meeting to be attended, kit to be ordered and held, minutes and accounts to be issued. That's usually the downfall of new clubs - everyone loves cycling but nobody wants to do the work year after year.
However, I tend to enjoy pushing hard for a good workout rather than just have a social ride and chat. (Thats what the coffee stop at the end is for!)
But obviously this doesn't suit everyone and I know it can cause some annoyance when the group starts to split :oops: - hence my post here to see what other clubs do.
My next step is to join other club's rides as a guest.
Rob0 -
Another thing to bear in mind is that the rules for gaining 3rd party liability protection from insurers (CTC, BC, etc.) mean that a lot of clubs will need to start paying more attention to planning and organising rides. It is easy to dismiss all this as H&S madness until one thinks about the real possibility of a newbie turning up and riding with the group...gets taken out on a greasy corner through just a run of the mill cycling accident but sustains severe life debilitating injuries...and ends up suing the club for 1/2 million in damages. There will be no shortage of lawyers willing to take up a case like that...and perhaps a club with no insurance or funding may mean that the ride leader feels some of the heat...?
CTC and BC both publish clear guidance for their terms and conditions of insurance and most of it is common sense but it will still not be undertaken by many clubs, e.g., clear and published incident management plans, signed and documented parental approval for under 18s, identification of non-members prior to start, number limits of non-members, etc. CTC also has some gotchas in that they also detail the need for emergency contact details for all riders on a particular ride...which then means that you will need to know exactly who is on which ride as well as track their details. We are struggling to make some of that work in theory let alone practice as we can get 100 turn up on a sunny Saturday. Hence, we are urgently reviewing the issue and considering switching from CTC to BC in order to meet their slightly more practical criteria for insurance.0 -
Another thing to bear in mind is that the rules for gaining 3rd party liability protection from insurers (CTC, BC, etc.) mean that a lot of clubs will need to start paying more attention to planning and organising rides. It is easy to dismiss all this as H&S madness until one thinks about the real possibility of a newbie turning up and riding with the group...gets taken out on a greasy corner through just a run of the mill cycling accident but sustains severe life debilitating injuries...and ends up suing the club for 1/2 million in damages. There will be no shortage of lawyers willing to take up a case like that...and perhaps a club with no insurance or funding may mean that the ride leader feels some of the heat...?
CTC and BC both publish clear guidance for their terms and conditions of insurance and most of it is common sense but it will still not be undertaken by many clubs, e.g., clear and published incident management plans, signed and documented parental approval for under 18s, identification of non-members prior to start, number limits of non-members, etc. CTC also has some gotchas in that they also detail the need for emergency contact details for all riders on a particular ride...which then means that you will need to know exactly who is on which ride as well as track their details. We are struggling to make some of that work in theory let alone practice as we can get 100 turn up on a sunny Saturday. Hence, we are urgently reviewing the issue and considering switching from CTC to BC in order to meet their slightly more practical criteria for insurance.
My club uses Eventbrite as a sign up method for the rides ahead of time.
You can make phone number/contact details a condition of entry, and then there's a phone app so you can actually check in riders as they arrive. It works really well, is easy to administer and so long as you aren't making people pay to ride via the system, the service is free.
If you have lots of riders you can publish lots of smaller rides with the same date/time, we divide ours by speed & distances (A, B, C groups) and limit the numbers. Managing 3x12 groups is very easy to do.0 -
I was only asking about regular club rides for members - not events. so I think this is going a little off-topic.
My club uses Eventbrite as a sign up method for the rides ahead of time.
You can make phone number/contact details a condition of entry, and then there's a phone app so you can actually check in riders as they arrive. It works really well, is easy to administer and so long as you aren't making people pay to ride via the system, the service is free.
If you have lots of riders you can publish lots of smaller rides with the same date/time, we divide ours by speed & distances (A, B, C groups) and limit the numbers. Managing 3x12 groups is very easy to do.
There's no way our club would expect to have members register for a Sunday ride!!
Rob0 -
Unfortunately my post and the reply are valid in the context of normal club rides. If your insurance providers are happy with no pre-ride registration or organisation then great but it may be prudent to check what they expect as part of the due diligence before you ever have reason to need the cover.0
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Unfortunately my post and the reply are valid in the context of normal club rides. If your insurance providers are happy with no pre-ride registration or organisation then great but it may be prudent to check what they expect as part of the due diligence before you ever have reason to need the cover.
I'd also agree with this. Our club is about two years old and has club insurance through CTC, which we had little understanding of until one of our members had an accident on a club ride.
Fortunately all was well after the accident, but it did highlight several shortcomings in our procedures, of which one was not registering riders prior to a normal club ride. As 'bobbinogs' states, your insurance provider may not mandate this, but I'd be surprised as most are very similar.
Important to remember also, that most basic club insurance is there to protect the ride leader/club being sued as pointed out in a previous reply, rather than insuring for TP liablities. We therefore advise our club members to obtain this separate themselves, either through BC membership or such other.
Back on track with the original question, our club now has three rides out on a Sunday - a social (13-15mph u to 35 miles) a Inters ride (15-17 up to 50 mile) and a club ride (17mph+ up to 100 miles). All rides have a policy on a Sunday of moving at the pace of the slowest rider within that ability group.
Generally it does work well, but from time to time, there can be someone in a group who probably should be in the group lower. What this needs is a ride leader with sufficient back bone to diplomatically suggest this to the rider concerned if the problem persists. not a nice thing to do, but sometimes required so the group continues to ride smoothly and in harmony.
We do also have a 'training night' in the week where we either do hill reps so 'technically' no one gets dropped, or around a local 4 mile circuit where those dropped can get picked up on the next lap. This method of riding is quite inclusive and has brought on the weaker riders over the summer, and something that is thoroughly enjoyed in quite a social manner also.
There are more things to running a club than people think!0 -
Don't underestimate the amount of paperwork that you need to do if you become a properly affiliated club. There are lots of meeting to be attended, kit to be ordered and held, minutes and accounts to be issued. That's usually the downfall of new clubs - everyone loves cycling but nobody wants to do the work year after year.
I don't think it's that bad unless you start running youth activities and go for the GoRide charter mark or whatever they call it. It can be less than running a kids football team.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Thanks for the heads up about Insurance. I'll mention it to the committee (or just send this thread to them!). Its making me have second thoughts about being a ride leader!! We may be covered through BC but it's not something that anyone has mentioned.0
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Robgod
I too belong to a local fairly new club, being one of the formative members the natural progression was too get involved as the club grew, like your club, ours grew rapidly and initially what started out as very loose informal arrangements soon had to be tidied up and the whole process formalised, this involved registration and affiliation, with that comes the need to form a committee/board, there is a requirement to have an agm, keep accounts and produce annual finances, the kit orders need to be kept on top of with two orders a year going in which usually amount to cira £2,500 an order. If an event such as a club tt is scheduled, the course is driven beforehand and a risk assessment made. The club holds social events and christmas parties, they even have a quiz team at the local boozer!!. like someone said earlier - until you become involved in the running of a club the majority of the members have no idea how time consuming running a club and catering for the needs of over 110 members actually is. I am fortunate enough to be part of a committee of people who put a lot of time and effort in to ensure all this happens.
With regards to our club rides ...we have a social ride on saturday and a ride leader determines a route of up to 30 miles with a bailout point at 10 if we get complete newbs turn up....as is the case it is always a function of who turns up on the day and from there you decide on the abilities of the riders.
Sunday rides are published in advance with the links to the route from the club garmin site, the aim is to have two groups medium paced 14-16mph and fast 16mph+.
As with the social it is always a function of how many people turn up on the day and their ability.
The ride leader issue is one that is a constant debate, we have a pool of designated ride leaders subject to them being available, the beginners/ social is the priority , most people capable of riding 18mph + on a sunday fast group would typically be experienced seasoned riders and usually able to take care of themselves.
At our last AGM we appealed for more people to volunteer to lead rides rather than rely on the same 2 or 3 people..... call me cynical Rob but im guessing you didnt stick your hand up.
outside of the scheduled rides we have a whatsapp forum for arranging ad hoc rides as not everyone can fit the time frame and abilities of the scheduled rides.
If somebody from my club wrote this " Its the actual "cycling" bit that seems to have been overlooked!! " i would probably have the hump because a lot of thought goes into it.
If youre not happy you should contact your treasurer at the club and i reckon he would happily refund your £20 membership fee0 -
Robgod
At our last AGM we appealed for more people to volunteer to lead rides rather than rely on the same 2 or 3 people.....
Sounds just like out club! We've had to cancel rides because no one was willing to lead certain rides out, and getting people to step up to ride leader is a struggle outside the normal 3-4 riders
With CTC Insurance - no ride leader means no ride takes place, and should people still want to ride out together, it is made quite clear through social media and our website that it is not a club ride, but just a bunch of mates riding out together.0 -
Different groups are the way to go and you may also consider a 'feeder' ride on a Saturday at a slower/ shorter pace than the slowest Sunday club-run.
If you have different groups you need to be honest about the pace. It's no good saying you will average 15 mph and then average 18mph. Your also need to explain the difference between average and riding on the flat especially in hilly areas.
If you have a café stop there is the possibility of different groups going to the same stop either by a slightly different route (fastest-longest, slowest-shortest) or arriving staggered (in time not on legs) which can help in terms of getting served. If someone has been continually struggling with the pace in a faster group you can suggest them return from the café with a slower group.
If someone came out on a ride and was continually dropped I would wait for them. If they went to go out in the same group next week I would suggest they try a slower group. If they failed to take this advice (they could have just been on a bad day) I would tell them the group would be riding at the predetermined pace and it was their responsibility to keep up. If they couldn't I wouldn't wait.0 -
I used to hate the club rides at my old cycling club. Too many people of different abilities would turn up and I think it would spoil it for everyone, the social cyclists would be put off and disheartened by getting dropped and the fast lads would be fed up by constantly stopping. There wasn't enough interest in a specific 'slower pace' ride and nobody would be willing to lead the group. Personally I think its a hard thing for people to admit they need to be in the slower group sometimes. The slower members used to get annoyed about getting dropped, expecting for their £15 a year that they've got a personal tour guide/chaperon/mechanic on every ride! It even got the point where the club chairman was going to offer people money to lead the slower rides..
My new cycling club just doesn't accept total beginners/socials. Its made clear what the average pace is going to be, what the distance will be and that everyone should know a route home if they get dropped. There's a page on the club website saying what you should be able to do before joining. I'm sure this may come across as 'elitist' but there's plenty other cycling clubs around if you want to bimble round the lanes at 15mph.0 -
Yepp, good sense there Whoof, very similar to our club and my experiences in that there are some riders who seem to want to pick a group based on where they want to be/who they want to ride with/what group they think their bike entitles them to, rather than based on their own ability. This leaves the poor old ride leader with a thankless task of trying to keep things together whilst also having to navigate/manage issues, etc. I have had my share of chaps in the "I'll be alright" category on rides where, as ride leader, I have had to continually wait for them on one ride...only to find they turn up next week for more of the same (even though there are several other options open to them). I'm afraid I have found that one sometimes has to be really frank with some riders...and even then, in some cases, I have just simply dropped the odd rider who refused to take advice and be redirected to another group prior to the ride.
By the way, we always have a couple of groups doing the same route, fastest goes out first just in case anyone wants to drop off and wait to be picked up by the next group. We try not to leave anyone out on the road unless it is by agreement or, as above, deserved!0 -
The club I've ridden with a few times in Aberdeen has 2-3 different pace groups for the Sunday ride (depending on how many turn up). There's race-specific training (chaingang) on Tuesdays which also splits into 3 groups APR style plus a few other rides.
I haven't ridden with them all that much though, because the Sunday rides go from a town a few miles down the road and I have a few friends in Aberdeen itself who are usually keen to do a ride from the centre. And I've not been fit enough for the chaingang for a while
I'm shortly moving to Manchester and am looking to properly join a club there in order to meet riding buddies. The club I'm looking at have a thing on their website about not taking total beginners, but they do it in a nice way and suggest alternative clubs so they don't seem too douche-y about it.0 -
Oh I forgot to mention, the slow group (known as the "club" ride) has a designated leader, but the medium and fast groups seem to mostly look after themselves. The slow group seems to have a lot of new or older riders (although there's a few older guys in the faster groups who are pretty quick!).0
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If youre not happy you should contact your treasurer at the club and i reckon he would happily refund your £20 membership fee
Thanks "Special11". No, the club will be stuck with me for the foreseeable future. Just wanted to help. Maybe I can ride with your club one day? Sounds good. 0 -
In 14 years club cycling I've never been on a group ride with a ride leader ? Are they really a legal requirement - or insurance requirement - I've been in a cycling club all that time, I've been on the committee for a lot of it and the club secretary for BC purposes and still never come across the issue of needing a ride leader. Big club too well over 300 members now.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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In 14 years club cycling I've never been on a group ride with a ride leader ? Are they really a legal requirement - or insurance requirement - I've been in a cycling club all that time, I've been on the committee for a lot of it and the club secretary for BC purposes and still never come across the issue of needing a ride leader. Big club too well over 300 members now.
I'm going to make some assumptions here, that "someone" dictates the route, and you have designated groups ("A,B,C" etc) and everyone knows which group is which by word of mouth between the members and that you're all fairly serious riders. Perhaps you have a "club route" that repeats on a regular basis? If its the same route, and everyone sets off in their regular group, then I can understand that there would not need to be a recognised ride leader. However, if you have a different route every week and recreational riders without Garmins, you really need someone who will make sure noone is left behind.0 -
Another thing to bear in mind is that the rules for gaining 3rd party liability protection from insurers (CTC, BC, etc.) mean that a lot of clubs will need to start paying more attention to planning and organising rides. It is easy to dismiss all this as H&S madness until one thinks about the real possibility of a newbie turning up and riding with the group...gets taken out on a greasy corner through just a run of the mill cycling accident but sustains severe life debilitating injuries...and ends up suing the club for 1/2 million in damages. There will be no shortage of lawyers willing to take up a case like that...and perhaps a club with no insurance or funding may mean that the ride leader feels some of the heat...?
CTC and BC both publish clear guidance for their terms and conditions of insurance and most of it is common sense but it will still not be undertaken by many clubs, e.g., clear and published incident management plans, signed and documented parental approval for under 18s, identification of non-members prior to start, number limits of non-members, etc. CTC also has some gotchas in that they also detail the need for emergency contact details for all riders on a particular ride...which then means that you will need to know exactly who is on which ride as well as track their details. We are struggling to make some of that work in theory let alone practice as we can get 100 turn up on a sunny Saturday. Hence, we are urgently reviewing the issue and considering switching from CTC to BC in order to meet their slightly more practical criteria for insurance.
Are all your ride leaders insured Bobbinogs?
I think your website has urged all members to have third party insurance since you stopped including it in your membership (some years ago) hasn't it?
That being the case I would have thought that any member given the task of leading a ride would have some sort of cover.
Is that a fair assumption?0 -
Going off on a tangent, but all this talk of Insurance etc got me looking on BC website. The following links may be of interest to some people out there:
Insurance Q&A for BC affiliated clubs:
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/20151103-membership-static-Club-insurance-Q-A-0
Club Ride Best Practice (this implies that these are not legal obligations)
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/membership/BEST_PRACTICE_GUIDELINES.pdf
BC affiliation gives the CLUB liability insurance. NOT its members.0
