Ventoux training
feisty
Posts: 161
Hi
A small group of us are planning a Ventoux trip in the summer taking in the Bedoin route (http://veloviewer.com/segment/2343734/Col+du+Mont+Ventoux+). A subset of that group (including me) go out most weekends (in addition to commuting and the odd Wattbike ride in the gym) but family commitments mean that we are usually out for only around 2 hours with the occasional 3 or 4 hour ride thrown in once a month. It'll probably be possible to up that a little in preparation for Ventoux but we are not going to be able to do 120km rides every week so I'm trying to work out how to make best use of the limited time we have.
We are reasonably fit and our rides involve (what to me is) a reasonable amount of climbing.
Our two hour rides include Brasted Hill (http://veloviewer.com/segment/669344/Brasted+Hill+-+from+Pilgrims+Way) and Sunridge Hill (http://veloviewer.com/segments/937127/athlete/4747759)
And our 3 to 4 hour rides include the above Brasted Hill in addition to Toys (http://veloviewer.com/segment/942815/Toys+Hill+(100+Climbs)) and Yorks (http://veloviewer.com/segment/648585/)
The above hills are all steeper than Ventoux but obviously *significantly* shorter.
My question is whether it's a good idea to continue to do rides including the above hills (trying to maybe up the number of three to four hour rides) on the basis that with limited time we might as well maximise the hill difficulty thereby meaning we get as strong as possible; or whether we'd be better off finding slightly shallower climbs to better mimic the cadence and gearing we'll need up Ventoux. One example could be Ide (http://veloviewer.com/segment/608764/Ide+Hill)
Thoughts?
A small group of us are planning a Ventoux trip in the summer taking in the Bedoin route (http://veloviewer.com/segment/2343734/Col+du+Mont+Ventoux+). A subset of that group (including me) go out most weekends (in addition to commuting and the odd Wattbike ride in the gym) but family commitments mean that we are usually out for only around 2 hours with the occasional 3 or 4 hour ride thrown in once a month. It'll probably be possible to up that a little in preparation for Ventoux but we are not going to be able to do 120km rides every week so I'm trying to work out how to make best use of the limited time we have.
We are reasonably fit and our rides involve (what to me is) a reasonable amount of climbing.
Our two hour rides include Brasted Hill (http://veloviewer.com/segment/669344/Brasted+Hill+-+from+Pilgrims+Way) and Sunridge Hill (http://veloviewer.com/segments/937127/athlete/4747759)
And our 3 to 4 hour rides include the above Brasted Hill in addition to Toys (http://veloviewer.com/segment/942815/Toys+Hill+(100+Climbs)) and Yorks (http://veloviewer.com/segment/648585/)
The above hills are all steeper than Ventoux but obviously *significantly* shorter.
My question is whether it's a good idea to continue to do rides including the above hills (trying to maybe up the number of three to four hour rides) on the basis that with limited time we might as well maximise the hill difficulty thereby meaning we get as strong as possible; or whether we'd be better off finding slightly shallower climbs to better mimic the cadence and gearing we'll need up Ventoux. One example could be Ide (http://veloviewer.com/segment/608764/Ide+Hill)
Thoughts?
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Comments
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OK, my ten bob's worth is don't overthink this. You are off to enjoy suffering up a big climb not break the record in doing so. Nothing you can do here in the UK on the road will exactly mimic riding a steep long mountain like Ventoux; whilst things like the Rhigos and Bwlch are good for starters, climbing for over an hour has its own delights. Hence, just ride your bike, all climbs are good (since no mountain is a constant x%) but then so is general fitness. You will need to learn to control your efforts so TT'ing on the flat has direct benefits as well.
Hope it all goes well. If you need a break on the way up, make sure you have a camera to make it look like you are enjoying the view rather than just stopping.0 -
Agree, I did Semnoz in Annecy a few years ago with only minimal training in the UK (Yorkshire so mainly short but steep). I forgot my time in the end, but to echo what's been said before, just pace yourself and enjoy it.
I got to the summit in good shape, better than what I thought I would.
AndyOrbea Orca OMX DI2 MyO
Kinesis 4s Di20 -
Agreed on do not overthink it, just ride your bike.
Whilst riding up hills is great training for riding up hills, there's nothing in the UK that is comparable to a long continental ascent. Actually, often the best mimic is a flat hard effort for an hour or more.
I'm quite excited that I should do Ventoux this June, I'm passing through Bedoin on a ride and if the weather's playing ball, I will do the ascent. No specific training going on for it though, just riding my bike lots.0 -
Make sure you have low enough gears for a long climb - if you can lose weight - that will help - other than that - just ride the bike and get as strong as you can.
Hill repeats rather than a 4 hour ride might be of more benefit too.
Have fun !0 -
there's nothing in the UK that is comparable to a long continental ascent.
That's not actually quite true - there's a fire road climb near me in the Highlands that is comparable (for time and effort and, more important, type of effort) especially when the surface is damp. I wish I'd discovered it before I did AD6. It starts quite low and climbs to the peak of a windfarm. The road surface is quite sandy and adds a lot to the rolling resistance. It's actually also good for the mental effort too.
Failing that, an appropriately loaded turbo helps.
That said, I agree with the sentiments above - just ride and get yourself as fit as possible. And enjoy it.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Hope it all goes well. If you need a break on the way up, make sure you have a camera to make it look like you are enjoying the view rather than just stopping.
I'm heading to Ventoux as well in the early summer.
And, thinking ahead, I have bought myself a new camera (jersey pocket sized) for just this purpose
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ooh where's that? I want to try it.there's nothing in the UK that is comparable to a long continental ascent.
That's not actually quite true - there's a fire road climb near me in the Highlands that is comparable (for time and effort and, more important, type of effort) especially when the surface is damp. I wish I'd discovered it before I did AD6. It starts quite low and climbs to the peak of a windfarm. The road surface is quite sandy and adds a lot to the rolling resistance. It's actually also good for the mental effort too.
Failing that, an appropriately loaded turbo helps.
That said, I agree with the sentiments above - just ride and get yourself as fit as possible. And enjoy it.
There are a few longer UK climbs if you know where to look, but not in the south east. Treat yourself to a couple of weekends in Devon, where you can seek out a few 350m climbs to practice on. Regardless of the length of the hills you train on, though, the main thing you need then to help with much longer climbs is to climb when you are already tired.
And there are always headwinds to train with. The Dutch have a history of good climbers for a reason....0 -
ooh where's that? I want to try it.
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And there are always headwinds to train with. The Dutch have a history of good climbers for a reason....
There's a few around here (do a hunt around) - remembering these are fire road - gravel, rocks, sand
https://www.strava.com/segments/2679347
11+ km at only 4% - but I'd rather do 8% on Tarmac than this ride when it's wet. It's great training and the descent (down a different route) is a massive adrenaline rush. For reference, the KoM rider is an awesome climber.
Ref the Dutch - I could agree more: brutal brutal wind out there - easy to ride 60k into a headwind TOTALLY exposed. Brilliant for the mental side too - hills seem easy afterwards.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Hill repeats rather than a 4 hour ride might be of more benefit too.
Have fun !
Couldn't agree more, some structured interval sessions with some interval hill repeats will pay dividends. I live in Lincolnshire and the hills here are limited, but short and steep so ideal for hill repeats. I've never struggled in the Alps, just got as fit as I could, which was plenty fit enough!0 -
Thanks all
I shall just continue what we usually do I think; albeit with a few longer rides0 -
Is that segment doable road tyres, or would I have to fit the knobbly cross tyres do you think?ooh where's that? I want to try it.
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And there are always headwinds to train with. The Dutch have a history of good climbers for a reason....
There's a few around here (do a hunt around) - remembering these are fire road - gravel, rocks, sand
https://www.strava.com/segments/2679347
11+ km at only 4% - but I'd rather do 8% on Tarmac than this ride when it's wet. It's great training and the descent (down a different route) is a massive adrenaline rush. For reference, the KoM rider is an awesome climber.
Ref the Dutch - I could agree more: brutal brutal wind out there - easy to ride 60k into a headwind TOTALLY exposed. Brilliant for the mental side too - hills seem easy afterwards.0 -
It's a great climb, you'll enjoy it. We did the cringles challenge last year, great fun. Intervals at sweet spot that get gradually longer are the answer, great for muscular endurance and general aerobic fitness. If you've not got power than intervals just below your LT heart rate will do the trick. Joe Friel's blog has a good guide to setting zones for both power and heart.
Having said all that, agree with everyone's advice about just enjoying it. If your fitness is ok you'll comfortably get up with sensible gearing, improving fitness just lets you find it less painful than your mates
As an aside, be prepared for the weather to change quickly at the top and the wind to be 'interesting' when you hit th exposed last 2-3 km. Wind tends to pick up in the afternoon so a morning climb is probably a good plan. The salut descent is great and the climb is also far easier, other than the final 6km where it joins at chalet reynard for the traditional climb again. But I would definitely recommend adding lunch at Salut to the trip, you get a nice additional leg and you can always bail out the tough final 6km and just drop back to Bedoin. Or add a second ascent.....0 -
I've done two of the Ventoux climbs (including the Bedoin ascent) a number of times and have always found hill repeats the best preparation for Alpine climbs. Mixing it up is good though and I usually ride 3-4 times a week with at least one of those rides being a hill repeat session and another longer weekend ride at a steadier pace.
We mountainbike as well which is also good for leg strength. The Ventoux is my favourite Alpine climb as well; it's awesome in the true sense of the word.0 -
I've done two of the Ventoux climbs (including the Bedoin ascent) a number of times and have always found hill repeats the best preparation for Alpine climbs. Mixing it up is good though and I usually ride 3-4 times a week with at least one of those rides being a hill repeat session and another longer weekend ride at a steadier pace.
We mountainbike as well which is also good for leg strength. The Ventoux is my favourite Alpine climb as well; it's awesome in the true sense of the word.
ermm (pedant alert), isn't the Ventoux outside the Alps
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When in the neighborhood, do also the Malaucene climb, which I actually prefer over the Bedoin side.0
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I've done two of the Ventoux climbs (including the Bedoin ascent) a number of times and have always found hill repeats the best preparation for Alpine climbs. Mixing it up is good though and I usually ride 3-4 times a week with at least one of those rides being a hill repeat session and another longer weekend ride at a steadier pace.
We mountainbike as well which is also good for leg strength. The Ventoux is my favourite Alpine climb as well; it's awesome in the true sense of the word.
ermm (pedant alert), isn't the Ventoux outside the Alps
Mont Ventoux, although geologically part of the Alps, is often considered to be separate from them, due to the lack of mountains of a similar height nearby.
Source Wikipedia:
Maybe you should try not being so pedantic in future.
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Doh!0
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Just ride, you see loads of different types of people managing it on road to MTBs and as long as you don't try and race off the front and burn yourself out it is just a period of time of pedalling, with the odd grind and thinking I can do this. Probably easier with some friends as you can chat and laugh, On your own means you have a lot of time to think and dance with whatever demons you take up.
I remember doing a google map street view and seeing a large frenchman (assumed) peddaling up with a shopping bag on the handle bars and gym bag on the back. Made me smile (off to scout the entire road for the picture now)
And seriously guys/girls lets not use Wiki as a source.0 -
If you can make sure you've got low enough gears, and reasonably fit, you'll get there.
But if you're time limited for training, intervals are better for improvement than just going riding with no plan. Though long rides will get your backside ready!
To get a feel for what a long climb is like, I would suggest a time-trial type effort on the flat. If you can get used to holding a continuous near-threshold effort for a long time, that is more like an alpine-like climb.0 -
Anyone who cycles reasonably often can get up the Ventoux, or pretty much any alpine climb.
Make sure you've got a low gear (34 x 28) and you'll be fine. Ultimately its 14 miles of cycling at 7% that will take you approximately 3hrs, as long as you can grind it out and enjoy what you are achieving then it wont be any problem.
You see all sorts of different people/bikes going up there, all at different paces.http://www.snookcycling.wordpress.com - Reports on Cingles du Mont Ventoux, Alpe D'Huez, Galibier, Izoard, Tourmalet, Paris-Roubaix Sportive & Tour of Flanders Sportive, Amstel Gold Xperience, Vosges, C2C, WOTR routes....0 -
How steep is it? As climbing is only really a problem when you run out of the gears you need to keep yourself in your preferred cadence. If it's like a lot of continental climbs and the gradient is reasonably shallow, it just goes on for ages, then it isn't really a problem, unlikely in the UK when you're confronted with 10% up then 10% down etc.
In effect the training you need to do is long duration efforts, so good training will be to use a heart rate monitor and during your 2 hour ride see if you can keep your heart rate up the entire time.0 -
A nice little video guide (if you haven't seen it already). Part of the Col Collective series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD-CjcwwU_w“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
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When I prepared for the Marmotte, (in addition to regular club riding) I made sure I did a least one 200 km
audax ride a month between Oct - Apr. These 10-11 hour rides were Ideal.
(Ok, so I was never going to challenge for a podium place) ;-)
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A couple of years ago I (59 then) reached the top after 1 h 45 min. hard work and met an older man smoking a pipe sitting on a low wall.
(at that moment we were the only 2 at the summit)
Dressed as an English lord in all brown with plusfours and cap, nothing reminded of cycling.
Next to him a 25 pound touring bike.
Asked him if the smoke didn't bother him.....he only smoked at summits....
63 years old and it took him 2 h 45 minutes to do the climb.
No big deal...0 -
Just the Bedoin climb?
https://www.strava.com/activities/365814100/overview
(this wasn't me by the way)"It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill0 -
As per another thread, I'm considering attempting the 6 on Ventoux - I have no doubt about the scale of this challenge though - hence why I'm considering it rather than just going for it. It's a different and bigger beast than The Alpe.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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As per another thread, I'm considering attempting the 6 on Ventoux - I have no doubt about the scale of this challenge though - hence why I'm considering it rather than just going for it. It's a different and bigger beast than The Alpe.
Just imagine how long you could write about it on internet forums.I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19772530#p19772530]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:As per another thread, I'm considering attempting the 6 on Ventoux - I have no doubt about the scale of this challenge though - hence why I'm considering it rather than just going for it. It's a different and bigger beast than The Alpe.
Just imagine how long you could write about it on internet forums.
If I wrote every day about it, I'd never match you for mindless comments. Most of us write something stupid from time-to-time. Occasionally you surprise me by writing something sensible. Today isn't one of them.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19772530#p19772530]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:As per another thread, I'm considering attempting the 6 on Ventoux - I have no doubt about the scale of this challenge though - hence why I'm considering it rather than just going for it. It's a different and bigger beast than The Alpe.
Just imagine how long you could write about it on internet forums.
Well I'd like to hear about it if he does it. I'm considering doing the triple ascent in a couple of years if I can get my proposed house move out of the way this year.0 -
How steep is it? As climbing is only really a problem when you run out of the gears you need to keep yourself in your preferred cadence. If it's like a lot of continental climbs and the gradient is reasonably shallow, it just goes on for ages, then it isn't really a problem, unlikely in the UK when you're confronted with 10% up then 10% down etc.
In effect the training you need to do is long duration efforts, so good training will be to use a heart rate monitor and during your 2 hour ride see if you can keep your heart rate up the entire time.
A good chunk is at 8-10% with only a little bit that's steeper near the top, the opening 5km are very gentle, hence the 7.4% average http://veloviewer.com/segment/2343734/Col+du+Mont+Ventoux+ The gradient isn't too bad it's the unrelenting length and potential heat and wind that are the bigger challenges. The views are awesome though.
Just make sure you are fit and have done plenty of climbing in your rides. toys hill from either side I would say is a good training hill, anything on the north downs ridge near the OP is fine though.
I would strongly recommend doing the climb from Bedoin, descent to Sault for Lunch, and the return to Bedoin via Gorge du Nesque. Truly stunning ride and most of the afternoon is a gentle down hill, great for legs that are tired from climbing Ventoux.Bianchi Infinito CV
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