Carbon Road Bike and Touring

mattsawyer

Hi Guys,

Sorry I'm posting here - I'm unable to post in the other Touring Section, so this seemed like the next best place.

Basic question - I have a Wilier Zero 9 Ultegra carbon bike. Which I use it on daily cycles etc. Question is; I'm going on a week long cycle trip with a friend and I'm worried my bike obviously isn't right for such a trip. He will be riding a Trek Domane 2.0 (so another road bike) but his is a alu frame so can attach a pannier rack.

We aren't doing any off-road stuff and gentle riding but I dont want to crack the carbon on the bike.

I was thinking of riding with a 20l rucksack for some bits, and then attaching a clip and clasp pannier rack with a max of around 10kg to the back.. Potentially looking at getting an in frame bag that could carry some other bits to displace the load across the bike..

Is this a bad idea?

We are planning on doing a mix of hostel and camping (tents, sleeping bags etc - no pots or pans). Probably carrying light food and water and planning to stick to shops for food etc.

I only own this bike, but my dad does have an old Specialized Rockhopper I could take. But I feel like the hardtail may be too slow against a Domane 2.0.

Any advice from those that have done such a tour?

Thanks in advance!

marcusjb

General random thoughts:

Travel lighter and use the carbon bike - look at bike packing luggage from people like apidura or revelate. You do not need half the stuff you think you need. You already mention a frame bag - great place to store your modular clothing (take stuff like arm warmers, light gilet etc. To make you quickly adaptable to different weather).

Do not wear a backpack - it will be no fun at all, especially anywhere warm or in the mountains.

You mention tents - be friendly and take 1 tent. One person can carry poles etc., the other the flysheet etc. - splitting even a relatively heavy 2 person tent is generally going to be lighter than carrying 1 person tents.

Old rigid mountain bikes make great tourers when you put slick tyres on. Unless you are touring fast, there should be no real worries about your mate being held back. Touring is about taking your time and enjoying the sights.

Just random thoughts that might put you in a different direction. Enjoy the tour. Where are you planning to go?

mercia_man

Your bike is not suited for a touring trip with camping gear. Its road racing geometry will make the handling wobbly and unstable with a big load, the gearing is too high and the short chainstays will mean your heels will hit anything other than small panniers placed as far back as possible. Broken spokes are another possibility as lightweight racing wheels are not designed to carry big loads.

However, people do manage to tour on road racing bikes. The key is carrying as little as possible. I personally would not be happy to fit a rear rack to a carbon bike with P clips. And cycling all day with a rucksack would be torture for me. I think a better option would be a combination of saddlebag, frame bag and handlebar bag. This would balance the load and would give just about enough space for really lightweight camping touring.

As well as the firms mentioned by marcusjb, Alpkit do excellent frame bags and strap-on saddlebags etc. For greater luggage capacity, I would recommend looking at Carradice. For example, the Camper Long Flap cotton duck saddlebag can take a huge amount of gear thanks to its extending top flap. And you can fit it to the Bagman QR support which clamps direct to your seat rails - no need for a rack. Carradice stuff is old school. But it's tried and tested and works really well.

As marcus says, old rigid mountain bikes make great tourers. That's how I started touring in the mid 1980s.

mattsawyer

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's much appreciated.

I'm stuck at that limbo stage between the Wilier and the Specialized. So need to make a decision before buying custom frame bags etc. My fathers bike hasn't been used in years, will need a service and could be unreliable due to winters in a shed so there's that to consider. Maybe I can put some slicker tyres on the hopper and lose the big old heavy MTB one it would make a big difference.

I'm keen on packing light for either of the options as I hate an overly weighty bike and I was thinking the same as you've both echoed above for the road bike in regards to weight of a rack on the wheels. Last night I located a great UK company who make custom frame bags which should allow me around 15l of room in the frame. The Altura Arran saddlebag also would allow around 5l of light equip and a 5 - 7l handlebar bag would do me fine. 25l of equipment sounds like enough for a week's ride. I just may need to leave my Krypt NYFAI lock at home!

Trip isn't located as of yet - potential of a UK trip to keep things simple but most likely will be southern France or maybe Amsterdam now that the Eurostar goes there, but haven't worked out the logistics yet. I will be keeping to roads for sure as neither of us have off-road bikes but knowing our map skills we could end up anywhere, which is part of the fun I'm sure.

I also figured that if I can lose a few KG of my own weight before leaving, which the seat would otherwise take, then the saddle bag could be a few kg in weight without too much trouble (I know the forces aren't leaning back too much but it should take it). The inside frame bag also would be supported by full length heavy duty Velcro strips which would hold on three sides of the bike. I like the fact that unlike panniers on either side all the weight would be central which should make it less 'wobbly'.

These options would also remove the need for a rucksack which sounds to me like a good idea on a tour.

Main thing about this is that I want to enjoy the trip without worrying the bike will explode under weight. But I also dont want to go away on a bike so heavy that I struggle up the steep hills and hate the trip because its so exhausting. I've used a MTB in the past with road bike users and they do get tiring after 30 - 40 miles. Whereas Road bikes can keep going all day.

mercia_man

I think you would need a much larger saddlebag than the 5L Altura if you are going to carry bulky touring stuff such as sleeping bag, spare clothes, rain jacket, shoes, washing stuff and tent. Weight carried in a saddlebag has much less impact on handling than a bar bag or panniers so you can go bigger, with a proper saddlebag rather than a rack-type bag attached to the seatpost, which is what I think the Altura is. For example, Alpkit's saddlebag is 13L and the Carradice Camper Longflap a massive 24L (big enough to fit a small tent and down sleeping bag inside plus clothes).

A good, hassle-free way of getting to the south of France and Spain is the Bike Express, a double decker coach with bike trailer which travels down the M1 to Dover and Europe each week. I've used it for years. Visit www.bike-express.co.uk for info.

mattsawyer

Okay, thats interesting to know. So maybe a bigger saddle bag is better.

I was also speaking earlier with a friend who tours and they suggested maybe considering a trailer:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/b-2-in-1-Bike-Bicycle-Cargo-Carrier-Trailer-Utility-Luggage-Cart-1-Wheel-40-kg-/221948828254?hash=item33ad2e5a5e:g:3qEAAOSwt6ZWUtvA

Makes going abroad slightly more tricky but not impossible. My worry is the stress from the weight on the axel against the carbon dropouts.

mercia_man

I've toured with a trailer and it's harder work than touring with four panniers. But it does enable you to carry a much bigger load, even with a lightweight road racing bike with low spoke count wheels. I think it would be overkill for your needs.

Saddlebags that fit on a long beam post attached to your seatpost (like the Arran) will affect handling because the weight sticks out high over your rear wheel. As you rightly surmise, the cantilever design causes a tail wagging the dog effect. You can only use a small bag because of the impact on handling and strain on your seatpost.

The beauty of a proper saddlebag like the Alpkit and Carradice or the ones mentioned by marcus is that the weight is carried by your saddle rather than a long beam-type holder and stays close to the centre of gravity of your bike. These saddlebags fit snugly against your saddle rather than sticking back over the rear wheel and have very little effect on handling. The bikepacking style bags of Alpkit, Apidura etc sit lengthways and are held securely by Velcro straps around saddle rails and seatpost. The traditional Carradice bags sit horizontally and are secured by a support mounted on the saddle rails or the seatpost. Both the bikepacking and traditional designs are secure, will not sway about and are in my view much superior to the small capacity and heavy beam mounted bag systems.

For the general idea, have a look at www.alpkit.com and www.carradice.co.uk

marcusjb

Trailers are fine. We use one sometimes when touring on the tandem. Even then, I prefer not to and if we can avoid it we will. I am helping my wife understand the joys of lighter weight touring, particularly in warmer climates. We're getting there.

Whatever bag you buy, you will be fine with. You will also fill it.

So, if you tour with a 15L setup, you will carry 15L of stuff.

The minute you change it to a 30L, or even more with trailer, you will fill it.

In warmer climates, one pair of cycling shorts and jersey is fine - get some light cotton shorts, boxers and a light t-shirt and there's your evening wear. Wash the cycling gear every night and it'll be dry in the morning.

Same with socks - 1 pair for cycling. Wash them at night. Get some light flip flops for walking around camp/towns in the evening.

In hot climates, you really can travel light. If you are heading up mountains, you will need a few bits and pieces to keep you warmer etc. - arm warmers, gilet, knee warmers, a buff for your neck and long fingered gloves are enough to keep you warm in most circumstances you might hit in summer in warmer parts. A rain jacket is essential as well and a lightweight down jacket can be great in the evenings (in the ultralight world, half sleeping bags are used in conjunction with a down jacket to cut weight down).

If you are touring and not having to bash out the miles all day, then should the weather turn, hang out somewhere with shelter for a few hours.

Have a look at your wardrobe and really think hard about what to take. Sure taking only 1 of some things means you will either smell a bit, or you have to do some laundry every day. I generally do not go as far as one pair of shorts, unless I know it is guaranteed warmth and sunshine, but one jersey is fine (I'm not overly worried about smelling a bit off).

A good modular wardrobe should see you able to adapt to changing conditions, and if things get outside of the parameters you can deal with, then you either hole up somewhere or adapt (carrier bags for overshoes etc.!).

There's loads of good stuff on the Internet about lightweight touring. I like this for an extreme example of what is possible:

http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.co.uk/

Much of it comes down not to buying the latest titanium and carbon multi-tool to shave 13 grammes off your kit, but simply down to leaving it at home.

mattsawyer

Right, It's settled then.

It sounds like for a weeks break I can get away with buying a decent saddlebag like those you have suggested, a reasonable frame bag for more modular clothing and gear and a handlebar bag.

By the sounds of it that should be sufficient for a week trip. I guess if worst came to worst we would just have to find a camping spot and do day trips from a base leaving all the heavy gear for a nice bit of cycling. Wouldn't be the end of the world.

I did have one last question. I live in London so I am well secured; I used to use an almax chain to secure it at home but got rid as it felt too overkill. Now I have a kryptonite NYFAI lock and a few other Abus.. When touring, whats the best security options to take? I was thinking my Krypto chain and a decent padlock but is that secure enough for a £2500 bike? I need to find a balance between security and weight which allows for decent touring but wont have me worrying I'll be transportless after having some dinner. The NY lock weighs around 2KG which isn't ideal for touring.

Thanks for all your help guys, really appreciated!

mercia_man

Lots of good advice above from marcus. You get to be an expert at washing and drying your kit as soon as you stop for the night.

I just use a cheap lightweight Abus cable lock and make sure I don't leave my bike for a long time in high risk situations. When camping, I would hear if someone tried to steal my bike. Most of my touring has been in rural France where I often don't even bother to lock my bike up if I'm popping into a village shop for provisions. I'm a bit obsessive about keeping touring weight down - even to the extent of weighing clothing to choose the lightest T-shirt! - so I certainly wouldn't want to carry a heavy U lock.

You just have to be philosophical about the risk of theft. In nearly 30 years of cycle touring, the only thing I've had stolen was the head of my wired Cateye speedo when I parked my bike outside a museum.

drummer_boy

I'm a little late to the party, but I had this quandry earlier last year.
I ended up buying a Specialized Sirrus off eBay for £140 and using that. A far better option, in hindsight!
Also, if I wanted to (I didn't in the end) but I could have just sold the Spec afterwards for what I bought bought for, and had free bike hire for the week :-).
I was doing the Newcastle-Edinburgh Castles and Shores route with my bike club.

mattsawyer

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19772356#p19772356]Drummer_Boy[/url] wrote:

I'm a little late to the party, but I had this quandry earlier last year.
I ended up buying a Specialized Sirrus off eBay for £140 and using that. A far better option, in hindsight!
Also, if I wanted to (I didn't in the end) but I could have just sold the Spec afterwards for what I bought bought for, and had free bike hire for the week :-).
I was doing the Newcastle-Edinburgh Castles and Shores route with my bike club.

Thanks for getting into touch. I couldn't decide between the Wilier and the Spec but having investigated the prices of panniers in the sale vs custom bags its probably cheaper and safer to take the Spec, even though I'd love to take the Wilier. I guess it makes more sense to take a hardtail I was just worried about the speed of it vs my friends aluminium road bike. The forks on the Rockhopper along with the wheel weight and disc brakes will probably throw me as I'm used to my Zero 9. But it may be a better idea to suck it up and take the more sturdy bike for a tour.

Thanks for the advice one and all!

Monty Dog

I adapted a friend's Specialized Ruby with carbon frame for JOGLE - fitted a Tubus Fly rack for panniers and triple chainset. Lots of decent bike-packing bags about too - Alpkit, Wildcat, Revelate, Apidura. Bike-packing bags install good discipline to minimise the load whereas many people take too much with panniers. Backpack other than small hydration pack is seriously bad idea, particularly in warm weather. Make sure you get someone to check the wheels over before you go and maybe investigate lower gears if going somewhere mountainous. Many people find they're under-geared and over-weight on their first tour.