Whats the big deal with wheels?
shimanobottombracket
Posts: 376
Assuming you dont already have really crap wheels.
Whats so significant about upgrading wheels. For example what advantage would I notice changing from
http://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/american-classic-victory-30-review927.html#lvAhASCJSl0lPGGh.97
to
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/wheels/giant-p-slr1-aero-wheelsystem
They say wheels are the 1st thing you should upgrade. So far on my bike they are the only thing I upgraded but that was because the OE wheels were developing problems (reviews of them confirmed they were crap, so I got shot of them entirely). Ride feels exactly the same which is no bad thing as the old wheels were fine in that regard. So long as my current wheels dont screw up.
Whats so significant about upgrading wheels. For example what advantage would I notice changing from
http://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/american-classic-victory-30-review927.html#lvAhASCJSl0lPGGh.97
to
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/reviews/wheels/giant-p-slr1-aero-wheelsystem
They say wheels are the 1st thing you should upgrade. So far on my bike they are the only thing I upgraded but that was because the OE wheels were developing problems (reviews of them confirmed they were crap, so I got shot of them entirely). Ride feels exactly the same which is no bad thing as the old wheels were fine in that regard. So long as my current wheels dont screw up.
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Comments
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AC are great wheels no probably not much. You're entering marginal territory here.
For what reason would you be purchasing new wheels, what would you be looking to get out of them, what are your aims/ goals and where/for how long do you ride?
For me I've mostly ridden cheap bottom of the range factory wheels and frustratingly all my Strava PBs are on said wheels. I now have 3 wheelsets and one bike.
RS11s (23mm conti ultra sport), Zondas (25mm Michelin pro 4 sc) and 50mm Carbon clinchers (23mm corsa cx).
The biggest difference is the tyres. The 25mm michelins are incredible, raised by the corsa cx. Can't wait to wear out the 23s and get 25s.
I would say that unless your spending 2-300 quid in upgrading from factory wheels, you can really make a tangible difference by spending 50 quid on some good tyres. Michelins in 25mm as above are amazing.0 -
Tyres first then wheels. Most of gains in wheelset are not in pace but in how they feel. This is subjective though. You can save bit weight for example while that feels nice it does little for pace. You can have a more aero wheel and that helps pace bit (not much though). Moving for a standard narrow rim to wide ones is like moving from 23mm to 25mm tyres well that is exactly what happens to a 23mm tyre on a wide rim plus a number of other benefit.
As you said if your current wheel are fine then there is little reason to change. If they are worn then £300 is all you need to spend to get something light enough to give you no excuses (jot that wheel weight should ever be an excuse), stiff enough to starg talking waffle about how snappy they feel and with a wide rim that is just another one of those incremental gains (improved aerodynamics, handling ride comfort).
Also with new wheels you can run tubeless tyres and these are worth it.
Change the tyres first though unless you want to tubeless and you should.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
As above, tyres should be the first upgrade and is usually warranted. Then there's saddles and bar tape. For some saddles can have a the biggest impact of all on performance and comfort. It's very hard to ride well when you can't sit comfortably! After that most upgrades are fairly negligible in performance or comfort gain IMO,wheels included. Deep section wheels should provide a noticeable gain if you're riding solo especially in TTs or multisport racing but in a pack it's unlikely to matter much.
I think lighter wheels feel a little different, not necessarily better in my opinion, just slightly different but I'd be pushed to notice unless the weight was very significantly higher or lower. I expect deep section wheels will have a noticeable effect on handling under some circumstances but haven't tried them yet. And of course they sound rather different.
Basically, I think people make too big a deal about upgrading wheels. It doesn't matter all that much unless you've a specific reason (TTs, tubeless, half the weight, etc). I reckon the posts you read by people reporting how fantastic their new lighter, stiffer wheels feel and how much faster they go are just imagination let loose.0 -
Deeper isn't always better. They can feel harsher and sometimes too stiff and translate more feedback from the road to the rider. They can be effected by side winds more. 50mm will feel faster at higher speeds but there won't be much in it compared to 30mm deep rims. Obviously some numbers nerd will be along to tell you otherwise.
Now wider rims are always better. 8) ....better grip,traction,cornering,stabilty, and more aerodynamic with right tyre width.
High TPI tyres are the most important and will make any wheel feel good to ride.0 -
And if their data stacks up, I 'll believe them over you. Numbers beat subjective perception.Deeper isn't always better. They can feel harsher and and sometimes too stiff and translate more feedback from the road to the rider. They can be effected by side winds more. 50mm will feel faster at higher speeds but there wont be much in it compered to 30mm deep rims. Obviously some numbers nerd will be along to tell you otherwise.
Now wider rims are always better. 8) ....better grip,traction,cornering,stabilty, and more aerodynamic with right tyre width.
High TPI tyres are the most important and will make any wheel feel good to ride.
Excessive trust in both subjective evaluation and untested half baked theories is responsible for a lot myths and misdirection in cycling. I'm not saying your comments do or do not fit in this category. I'm just pointing out that cycling would benefit from more, not less, attention to evidence.0 -
I have two sets of wheels
Fulcrum Racing 5 and Soul S3.0. The Soul are 23mm wide, 32mm deep and weigh about 1550g.
The Fulcrums are 19mm wide (I think) about 25mm deep and weigh c1750g.
With the same tyres the Soul wheels FEEL so much better. Lower PSi makes for a more comfortable ride. They react to effort faster meaning any little out of the saddle digs uphill feel less laboured. They corner better (more reassuring) and I am a poor bike handler.
There is nothing wrong with the F5s but they do feel a quite dead in comparison however they are bombproof and have laughed at 3 winters riding albeit not commuting.
I tried some 50mm carbon clinchers from China. They looked great. Were demonstrably faster on long undulating sections of road but they felt slower to respond despite being lighter and stiffer than the other two wheels. The stiffness was annoying and the valve made the wheel hop. I sold them a month later.
Conclusion - in my mind definitely go wider. 23mm with 25mm tyres is a nice ride. Lighter can feel more responsive
, Deeper looks fab but you compromise other aspects. 0 -
Wheels 'making a difference' will a lot depend on what type of rider you are, your strength etc.
If you are the type of rider that pootles along country lanes at a sedate pace, without putting much effort in, changing wheels /tyres will make naff all difference.
I ride Shimano Ultegra wheels and ride hard at a high pace on most of my rides, they are for me, as not a heavy rider, a great stiff wheelset with smooth hubs with no worries.
I then went on holiday and used a lower end Btwin with lower end wheels and I did not even feel safe sprinting with them or giving it some big efforts up steep hills, they felt like they were made of noodles to me, to the point I would not sprint.
Others who ride around at a sedate pace probably wouldn't have noticed a difference.0 -
Who says wheels are the first upgrade?
They are the third upgrade, after pads (/calipers if need be) and tyres.
As you have already upgraded your wheels, have you not answered your own question?
Stock wheels rarely do a stock bike justice.
Wheels are at least as big a deal as any other component arnt they?
Which upgradable component is more of a big deal?
Saddle is a must, not an upgrade. Same for stem.
Bars are perhaps an upgrade as much as fit, but have you even considered that you need different bars?0 -
Wheels make an absolutely massive difference from an aerodynamic standpoint. If you're coming from a box section rim then you'll gain more speed with the correct wheel selection than any other piece of kit. There are a few things that need to be considered though.
1) How aero are the wheels you're looking to buy?
This is probably the most difficult question to answer. Manufacturer data isn't something you should go by as the test protocols are all different and they'll choose whatever makes them looks best (this is why they're all 'fastest'). Performance at yaw needs to be considered as well. The faster you ride, the less yaw you'll see which is why TTers will go super deep and narrow (unfortunately this is changing due to pro teams being lazy) and triathletes will go for something wide with better mid-high yaw performance (because they're all slow). The bike makes a huge difference as well as frames, and especially forks, play very different with different wheelsets (secret squirrel project is a great example).
2) How difficult are they to control?
This can only be answered by riding the wheels in different conditions. Generally if you're heavy then you can get away with deeper wheels. Personally I think you should ride as deep as can. Weight isn't nearly as big an issue as people make out. I climbed faster on my 72mm carbon wheels than my far lighter 32mm ones. Some wheels, like the Reynolds Aeros and Knights, are, but unless there's fancy tech then there's not much in it.
3) Carbon or aluminum w/carbon fairing?
This depends if you're going for clinchers or tubs as wheel as the terrain you ride. For racing I would go carbon tubulars 10 times out of 10. Far more security than clinchers and no worries about heat build up. For everyday riding most find clinchers a safer bet (probably wary of changing a tub if they haven't done it before). Nothing wrong with this unless you live somewhere with long and/or steep descents. I haven't found anything in the UK that would test the heat resistance of top quality carbon clinchers, but if you plan on going to the Alps, Pyrenees, or even Mallorca then you'll want to go with an alloy braking surface or tubs. If you're not confident in the rain (and ride it frequently) then carbon may not be for you either.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
I thought the first upgrade was a bottle cage now?0
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I thought the first upgrade was a bottle cage now?
...only for rides of more than 15 minutes.0 -
tyres and tubes, best upgrade ever...
and an aero bottle cage.0 -
good quality shorts or bibshorts first0
