Caliper Comparrison

Dawesy92

Right, so I've got a fucked piston in my rear XT caliper, so using this as an excuse to spend money...

Going to upgrade to some 4pot calipers either saint or zee what I'm wondering is, is there any real difference between them, as on CRC, the zee are selling at 60quid a caliper, saints are 61.50..

Are the saints better in anyway really way or just the name?

Thanks in advance!!

Dawesy92

Right, so I've got a fucked piston in my rear XT caliper, so using this as an excuse to spend money...

Going to upgrade to some 4pot calipers either saint or zee what I'm wondering is, is there any real difference between them, as on CRC, the zee are selling at 60quid a caliper, saints are 61.50..

Are the saints better in anyway really way or just the name?

Thanks in advance!!

rockmonkeysc

Four piston calipers will sort of work with XT levers but two pistons will work better.
The fluid displacement is different in four piston brakes so you will have to pull the lever more for the same piston movement.
Power isn't any better with more pistons but the bite is sharper, good for downhill, not as good for xc

The Rookie

The Saint is lighter through more expensive materials, no difference in power.

The Zee and Saint levers shift more fluid for a given lever pull than the SLX/XT/XTR, some people get the levers to work with the 4 pot callipers, others never seem to get them working to their satisfaction, not tried it myself so can't add much more than that.

CRC have Shimano individual parts at some decent prices right now.

The Rookie

See my answer to your exact same question in workshop and tech (why?)

Dawesy92

Yeah been looking, might order caliper and lever, try caliper with XT if it doesn't work fit the lever, if it does send the lever back

Dawesy92

Wasn't sure which side to post on that's all.. cheers for your answer anyway dude!!

The Rookie

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765711#p19765711]RockmonkeySC[/url] wrote:

Four piston calipers will sort of work with XT levers but two pistons will work better.
The fluid displacement is different in four piston brakes so you will have to pull the lever more for the same piston movement.
Power isn't any better with more pistons but the bite is sharper, good for downhill, not as good for xc

Power is improved slightly due to the reduced leading edge effect and reduced pad distortion, but broadly yes, it's not where the main benefit comes from.

.blitz

Dawesy92 wrote:

Going to upgrade to some 4pot calipers either saint or zee what I'm wondering is, is there any real difference between them

The calipers are identical apart from the finish on some small parts and they're noticeably heavier than XT/SLX/Deore calipers esp with the finned pads. Saint levers have more in common with XTR Trail whereas Zees are more Deore.

They both feel like XT/SLX/Deore to begin with but where the two-piston brakes have a fairly linear power delivery, the 4-pots ramp it up at the top end and stay strong if you use them a lot

Both fine brakes but for me the tactile feedback from the Saint levers is worth the difference. I wouldn't want to be reminded of the ££ I've saved every time I brake

The Rookie

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-zee-m640-disc-brake/rp-prod82434

Not much point messing around, its only £15 more than just the calliper!

poah

couldn't tell the difference between zee and saint in terms of power/modulation. zee/saint calipers are the same, zee/slx/xt/deore lever units are all interchangable but you need a shorter screw on the caliper to attach the zee/saint hose.

The Rookie

As detailed above, the levers can't be stated to be interchangeable, Zee/Saint are different to the regular trail brake levers.

http://www.sicklines.com/weights/discbrakes/
About a 15G weight penalty each end for Zee compared to Saint, most (if not all) of that is in the lever based on the 'similar' XT (similar to Zee) being 115g/lever compared to XTR (similar to Saint) Trail being 100g/lever.

poah

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19766118#p19766118]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

As detailed above, the levers can't be stated to be interchangeable, Zee/Saint are different to the regular trail brake levers.

you can use XT/Zee/saint/SLX/Deore lever (as in the whole thing) on any caliper with no issues. both slx and zee displace the same amount of oil from the lever.

The Rookie

No they don't, the Zee/Saint put out about 15-20% more (depending on who you believe) that is why some people have really struggled, RMSC mentioned a Deore/Zee combo which just wouldn't work properly at all (Deore lacking free stroke adjust may have been the issue).

poah

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19766164#p19766164]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

No they don't, the Zee/Saint put out about 15-20% more (depending on who you believe) that is why some people have really struggled, RMSC mentioned a Deore/Zee combo which just wouldn't work properly at all (Deore lacking free stroke adjust may have been the issue).

well my slx and zee levers must be odd since I measured it. new deore M615 have servo wave (only XT/XTR have free stroke ) but free stroke doesn't matter.

rockmonkeysc

They don't displace the same fluid. When I put my Deore lever on my Zee brake on my DH bike it took ages to get a half decent bleed and I got loads of lever travel. It was the Shimano rep at the race who told me the four piston levers displace a lot more fluid and that was why I was having trouble.

The Rookie

As the calliper piston area is bigger and they run about the same pad clearance then clearly either the 4 piston will result in a 'long lever' or the lever must shift more fluid for the same lever pull.

poah

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19766292#p19766292]RockmonkeySC[/url] wrote:

They don't displace the same fluid. When I put my Deore lever on my Zee brake on my DH bike it took ages to get a half decent bleed and I got loads of lever travel. It was the Shimano rep at the race who told me the four piston levers displace a lot more fluid and that was why I was having trouble.

they displace the same amount of fluid as I measured it or didn't you read that part (SLX and Zee), also shimano say so themselves that you can use the levers with the calipers.

rockmonkeysc

Well the Shimano reps knowledge of their products obviously isn't as good as yours.
As Rookie says, basic hydraulics suggest that the four piston levers must either displace more fluid or have more lever travel, my Zee's have very little Lever travel.