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Lord Janner

Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,553
edited December 2015 in The cake stop
Has he got away with it or wrongly accused, I feel an investigation is relevant even if he is now dead.
Tail end Charlie

The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.

Posts

  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    Spike Milligan's epitaph springs to mind. 'I told you I was ill'
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,553
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764952#p19764952]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    Spike Milligan's epitaph springs to mind. 'I told you I was ill'
    Well, if he was guilty of the charges lvelled against him, he certainly was sick.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    The case appears to die with Janner.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/20/greville-janner-child-sex-abuse-claims-unlikely-come-to-court

    According to this, there seems to be a motive other than justice involved.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3367112/Lord-Janner-dies-aged-87.html
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    I have no idea if he was guilty and neither has anyone else outside the case and I can't see that changing.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,553
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764959#p19764959]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    I have no idea if he was guilty and neither has anyone else outside the case and I can't see that changing.
    Same here Bally.

    To my sense of justice though, dead or not the truth should out, if that then leads to any compo for the victims so be it. Won't happen though.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,034
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764964#p19764964]Frank the tank[/url] wrote:
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764959#p19764959]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    I have no idea if he was guilty and neither has anyone else outside the case and I can't see that changing.
    Same here Bally.

    To my sense of justice though, dead or not the truth should out, if that then leads to any compo for the victims so be it. Won't happen though.
    Death didn't seem to hold back the Saville investigations.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    He was only found guilty in the court of public opinion.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,034
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764985#p19764985]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    He was only found guilty in the court of public opinion.
    True.
    But the investigation has had far reaching effects.
    Maybe the same for Janner would lead us deeper into the warren.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764957#p19764957]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    The case appears to die with Janner.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/20/greville-janner-child-sex-abuse-claims-unlikely-come-to-court

    According to this, there seems to be a motive other than justice involved.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3367112/Lord-Janner-dies-aged-87.html

    Seems young mr janner was sane enough to hand over the deeds to his house, to presumably reduce the value of his estate in the event of any compo? could it be for any other reason? as he has died so soon after doing this.
    Wasnt there talk of a "trial of the facts", as the evidence against him was a lot? why dont they do that.
    got to hand it to the 'mail, their coverage was nt exactly in favour of his alledged victims.

    anyway bally, your needed over in 'Guess the Object
  • sungodsungod Posts: 15,903
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764985#p19764985]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    He was only found guilty in the court of public opinion.

    same as in it'd be in the old bailey, the verdict is only jurors's opinion based on what the court permits them to hear as evidence, which may or may not be all the actual evidence

    in this case, a bunch of people who have already been investigated and deemed sufficiently credible to justify a prosecution, were willing to stand up in court and describe in detail how they claim to have been personally abused by him - with the prospect of being further abused by his counsel, because branding them liars or delusional would be the only way to destroy their credibility in the eyes of the jury
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765222#p19765222]sungod[/url] wrote:
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764985#p19764985]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    He was only found guilty in the court of public opinion.

    same as in it'd be in the old bailey, the verdict is only jurors's opinion based on what the court permits them to hear as evidence, which may or may not be all the actual evidence

    in this case, a bunch of people who have already been investigated and deemed sufficiently credible to justify a prosecution, were willing to stand up in court and describe in detail how they claim to have been personally abused by him - with the prospect of being further abused by his counsel, because branding them liars or delusional would be the only way to destroy their credibility in the eyes of the jury

    I repeat that no-one outside the case knows if Janner was guilty. You are correct insofar as there are rules on evidence being admissible in court. But someone making a statement does not automatically make it true. Are you implying that he must be guilty because people are willing to give evidence to say he was?
    I think from what I've heard, there would have been a good chance of a guilty verdict, but we will never know will we?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,034
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765246#p19765246]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765222#p19765222]sungod[/url] wrote:
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764985#p19764985]Ballysmate[/url] wrote:
    He was only found guilty in the court of public opinion.

    same as in it'd be in the old bailey, the verdict is only jurors's opinion based on what the court permits them to hear as evidence, which may or may not be all the actual evidence

    in this case, a bunch of people who have already been investigated and deemed sufficiently credible to justify a prosecution, were willing to stand up in court and describe in detail how they claim to have been personally abused by him - with the prospect of being further abused by his counsel, because branding them liars or delusional would be the only way to destroy their credibility in the eyes of the jury

    I repeat that no-one outside the case knows if Janner was guilty. You are correct insofar as there are rules on evidence being admissible in court. But someone making a statement does not automatically make it true. Are you implying that he must be guilty because people are willing to give evidence to say he was?
    I think from what I've heard, there would have been a good chance of a guilty verdict, but we will never know will we?
    I take that Jimmy Saville is innocent too in the eyes of the law.
    How do the victims get closure?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,903
    Innocent until found guilty by legal proceedings. Until the allegations have been tested, they remain just that - allegations. Please note, I am NOT saying he is not a rapist and abuser.
    As for closure, I have no idea how the poor souls find any solace.
  • BobbinogsBobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    I did find the Saville thing puzzling though. The vast majority of the allegations against him only came out after his death and he never got the chance to offer a defence in court...yet the police always seemed to presume he was guilty and refer to him as a "serial abuser" (and I believe his estate was effectively broken up to be paid out to his 'victims'). Strange that we always talk about innocent until proven guilty but it does appear to be slightly selective :?
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 12,149
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765358#p19765358]Bobbinogs[/url] wrote:
    the Saville thing...

    we always talk about innocent until proven guilty

    Aye but, you only need to look at him....

    :wink:
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,034
    The case could still be heard in court.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1610112/court-to-consider-lord-janner-sex-abuse-case
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 8,642
    Convenient death, easier than them bumping off all the accusers I suppose. Yeah yeah tin foil hat etc.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • feltkuotafeltkuota Posts: 333
    I believe everyone is still allowed to defend themselves in a court of law. Being dead limits that somewhat.
  • eric_draveneric_draven Posts: 1,192
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765358#p19765358]Bobbinogs[/url] wrote:
    I did find the Saville thing puzzling though. The vast majority of the allegations against him only came out after his death and he never got the chance to offer a defence in court...yet the police always seemed to presume he was guilty and refer to him as a "serial abuser" (and I believe his estate was effectively broken up to be paid out to his 'victims'). Strange that we always talk about innocent until proven guilty but it does appear to be slightly selective :?

    Think it's a case of him having "friends" in high places and obviously his charity work for kids was a good smoke screen,which probably made most people never suspect or believe or could or would do anything of the sort,obviously the victims just thought they would never be believed, I live in Scarborough where Saville had a flat and spent a lot time,and there was definitely strong rumors about him for years,and his friend the ex mayor who owned an ice cream palour on the seafront,when i was at secondary school in the late eighties it was an on going joke that it was only early-mid teenage boys that were employed selling ice creams,and then the owner would drop your wages on the floor,so he could feel your backside when you picked them up,there is a whole load of more stuff on a website called Real Whitby,you now need to search the archives

    i cannot quite believe it only took a few people to come forward after Saville's death to lift the lid on the avalanche child abuse that had happened
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