Why do Shimano 11 speed cassettes start with 11 cog?
dieselgeezer
Posts: 231
I'm just about to go from 10 to 11 speed. With 10 speed I use a 12-27 cassette which has the all important 16 cog (at least to me) & a 50/34 chainset. The 50x12 seems plenty high enough even when racing.
The closest 11 cassette is an 11-28 which no longer has the 16 cog. I don't think many need a 50x11 so why not do a 12-28. With the trend towards the "pro compact" 52/36, the gears are getting bigger & bigger. Trying to work out the logic in all of this.
The closest 11 cassette is an 11-28 which no longer has the 16 cog. I don't think many need a 50x11 so why not do a 12-28. With the trend towards the "pro compact" 52/36, the gears are getting bigger & bigger. Trying to work out the logic in all of this.
-- "I am but a spoke in the wheel of life" -- Ghandi
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SRAM 11 speed cassettes have the 16t cog (apart from the 11-32):
11-25: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25
11-26: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 26
11-28: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28
WiFLi 11-32 cassette option 11-32: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28, 320 -
You could make your own 12-28 out of two CS-5800 cassettes, by swapping over the 3 combined low cogs, although not a nice transition between the 19 - 23T cog.
12-25T (12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,(21,23,25)
11-28T (11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,(23,25,28)
There is a CS-6800 14-28T cassette, though probably not enough high gears for you.0 -
Seems daft to me too. My top gear is also 50-12 and the amount of times I use it are very rare indeed so I often think going from 12-30 to 11 speed is pointless as all I would get for it is a useless 11T cog.0
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I can kind of see the logic, in that (in terms of gear inches) the jump from 12T to 11T is significant and would be useful for someone who is on the fence between a compact (or semi-compact) and a standard chainset; the 11T on the back might just give you enough gearing to go with the lower gearing up front. Chopping a gear out of the middle of the pack (i.e. the 16T) is probably seen as a good compromise.
I agree with you guys though, I'd prefer a 16T or a 30T than an 11T. Just like markhewitt, I've settled on 10 speed 12-30T as a good all-rounder at the moment and upgrading to 11-speed will just give me an 11T cog that I'd hardly use. Just have to wait for 12-speed I guess!0 -
Leave my 11 cog alone - I love it for that downhill blast without spinning like a loonROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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Dura Ace 12-28, treat your self
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12-25 105 5800 here: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-105-5800-11-speed-cassette/
12-25 Ultegra 6800 here: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-6800-11-speed-cassette/
12-28 Dura-Ace 9000 here: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-dura-ace-9000-11-speed-cassette-1/
And that's just from Wiggle.0 -
I agree.
My 10 speed ultegra runs a 12-25, and I've considered going 11 speed, initially thinking that it would allow me to add one more gear at the top or the bottom, but no. If I go 11 speed my only option is to add one extra gear at both ands and lose one in the middle - not a good option as far as I'm concerned.
12-28 DA costs a lot and doesn't have a great reputation.0 -
11 cog for me every time. What's not to like.0
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11 cog for me every time. What's not to like.
I'm not anti-11 per se, It's just that I'd like a 12-28 option - especially if matched with a 52/36 front.0 -
matched with a 52/36 front.
There's your problem right there - a silly "Pro" ( :roll: ) Compact chain set
Since the vast majority of riders use a regular ("Amateur"??) compact, Shimano rightly cater for them. If you rode a regular compact, you could probably have an even closer ratio cassette. ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
11 cog for me every time. What's not to like.
It's useless for 100% of all readers here.....0 -
matched with a 52/36 front.
There's your problem right there - a silly "Pro" ( :roll: ) Compact chain set Since the vast majority of riders use a regular ("Amateur"??) compact, Shimano rightly cater for them. If you rode a regular compact, you could probably have an even closer ratio cassette.
Agreed. A 11t is exactly what pros want but when used with a 50t chainring you still get a higher top end than a 53/12 so it works well for compacts as well. If you have a compact then 34/25 is low anyway. I'm still using 39/25 in a hilly area and I dream of 34/25
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matched with a 52/36 front.
There's your problem right there - a silly "Pro" ( :roll: ) Compact chain set Since the vast majority of riders use a regular ("Amateur"??) compact, Shimano rightly cater for them. If you rode a regular compact, you could probably have an even closer ratio cassette.
yes but shimano also make a heck of alot of 52/36 c/s and they should do an Ultegra 12/28, the 11t even with a 50t compact isnt really needed, its a 120 in gear, thats huge.0 -
matched with a 52/36 front.
There's your problem right there - a silly "Pro" ( :roll: ) Compact chain set Since the vast majority of riders use a regular ("Amateur"??) compact, Shimano rightly cater for them. If you rode a regular compact, you could probably have an even closer ratio cassette.
yes but shimano also make a heck of alot of 52/36 c/s and they should do an Ultegra 12/28, the 11t even with a 50t compact isnt really needed, its a 120 in gear, thats huge.
Completely agree, just got a new bike with a 52/36 and I'd much rather have the missing 18T than an 11T. That one's SRAM's fault though rather than Shimano.0 -
There's your problem right there - a silly "Pro" ( :roll: ) Compact chain set Since the vast majority of riders use a regular ("Amateur"??) compact, Shimano rightly cater for them. If you rode a regular compact, you could probably have an even closer ratio cassette.
I actually have a 50/34 compact right now, with a 10 speed 12-25. However, when I was looking at new bikes recently most of them came with a 52/36 chainset and an 11 speed 11-28 cassette, which was a negative for me.0 -
matched with a 52/36 front.
There's your problem right there - a silly "Pro" ( :roll: ) Compact chain set Since the vast majority of riders use a regular ("Amateur"??) compact, Shimano rightly cater for them. If you rode a regular compact, you could probably have an even closer ratio cassette.
yes but shimano also make a heck of alot of 52/36 c/s and they should do an Ultegra 12/28, the 11t even with a 50t compact isnt really needed, its a 120 in gear, thats huge.
I use my 11 every day - I love powering down descents.
The only time I miss cogs in the middle of a cassette is in pretty flat terrain. In N Holland, I rode 53/39 with a 12-23 cassette - all the gears were there for was varying wind resistance - either because you were in a bunch or because there was a head/tail wind. In those circumstances you could fine-tune your cadence for long periods of time.
I find in much of the U.K. that the terrain undulates a lot so the load you're seeing varies far more. In those conditions, getting fussy about a missing cog seems excessive. Just wait a few moments and the cog you have been "forced" to use will come to you.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I just don't understand why Shimano won't sell a 12-28 ultegra 11speed cassette, when most of us are running a 52-36 mid compact chainset??? Dura ace 9000 cassettes are just too expensive for most of us non sponsored cyclists...0
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I don't think "most" people are running 52-36. It's become a lot more common since cassettes have grown to 32T but all that trend has done is add metal to the bike with bigger chain rings, more cassette teeth and, as a direct result longer chains and larger RDs - it's daft. Rather than 52/36, fit 50/34 and an 11 or 12-25 with nice close ratios - a shorter chain and an SS cage.
I think we'll see that 52/36 is a fad and we'll see a move back to 50/34 on most new bikes. Jamis have already done it with my Renegade.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Both Miche and BBB offer 12/27 11 speed cassettes, Shimano splines.
Miche also offer 12/29 and 12/30.
I've used BBB and Miche cassettes and found them fine.
PS I have to agree with others, unless you are racing at a serious level, an 11t is completely unnecessary. Even a 50/11 is a huge gear.0 -
matched with a 52/36 front.
I use my 11 every day - I love powering down descents.
You move your legs, yes, but gravity does the job really.0 -
matched with a 52/36 front.
I use my 11 every day - I love powering down descents.
You move your legs, yes, but gravity does the job really.
What percentage descents are you talking about? Think about that question and the fallacy of your point becomes clear.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
90-100rpm in 50x11 is 51.6-57.3kmhPS I have to agree with others, unless you are racing at a serious level, an 11t is completely unnecessary. Even a 50/11 is a huge gear.
It's really not that unusual to hit those sorts of speeds with a small amount of gravity or wind assist, especially in a group. It may not be something you do, but that doesn't make it completely unnecessary.
I remember in the first RideLondon heading towards Hyde Park Corner on the way out of town and noticing that the chap in front was out of gears. Perhaps he preferred a lower cadence. For that ride 53/39 and 11-25 was ideal gearing.
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Impressive stuff. So how long did you maintain this speed of 51.6-57.3kph?0
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Impressive stuff. So how long did you maintain this speed of 51.6-57.3kph?
Well, quite a long time
But, if we start measuring the necessity of gears by how long we use them, what on earth are we doing with 2x11 gears? Let alone 11-32 cassettes?ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
That seems spectacularly irrelevant. And malformed.Impressive stuff. So how long did you maintain this speed of 51.6-57.3kph?
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I barely use 53/12T unless I am really going for it i.e over 35 mph. 50/11T for me is like having a chocolate teapot. Quite happy in 53/14T at 35mph. Miche do 11 speed cassette with a 12T start cog like a 12-29T or a 12-29T.
Shimano's cassette options are quite limited and DA cassettes can creak that is not treating yourself.
11T cog are not needed unless you are trying to do over 40 mph. I know people use them but spinning more is no bad thing (I am quite guilty of grinding as well).http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
I barely use 53/12T unless I am really going for it i.e over 35 mph. 50/11T for me is like having a chocolate teapot.
Well this kinda sums up the discussion - there's 3% difference between 53/12T and 50/11T - that equates to 1mph at the 35mph quoted. I guess Suffolk is pretty flat....ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
