Reba Fork Query.
jedi_master
Posts: 888
Are the Latest Reba RL Solo Air forks better, on par or worse than the 2011 Dual Air versions?
I ask as the uppers on my brothers 2011 Dual Airs have a few scratches and the gold coating has started to wear a little and was wondering if it's worth buy a new set of CSU's at around £230, or just get a new set of 2016 forks for around £350. Well maybe less in the January sales. Or is there something else better for the same money? brand doesn't matter.
The 2011 forks had the external floodgate control on the motion unit.
I ask as the uppers on my brothers 2011 Dual Airs have a few scratches and the gold coating has started to wear a little and was wondering if it's worth buy a new set of CSU's at around £230, or just get a new set of 2016 forks for around £350. Well maybe less in the January sales. Or is there something else better for the same money? brand doesn't matter.
The 2011 forks had the external floodgate control on the motion unit.
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Get a decent used 2011-13 fork and mix and match the best bits seems the best way forward to me!
Wear on the stanchions doesn't necessarily degrade performance as long as the fork is now being serviced properly (which it probably wasn't before!).Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
Which is the best, depends on your personality type. In the singe air the ratio between rebound and compression damping is set by RR, So if you are the sort of chap who finishes his ride and thinks, '' What I need to do, is take 4psi of the rebound and put it on the compression''. Then they are not really for you. If you are a set it and forget it chap then the single airs are a lot less fuss0
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I would go for the new fork, the solo air RL is a very good fork and much more reliable.
The dual air start having problems with the air springs after a few years and start needing regular rebuild to re seat o rings.
Go for a new 2015 model, Merlin did have them under £300. At that price a new CSU makes no sense.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Air pressure doesn't effect rebound or compression damping......it changes the progression of the air spring as a whole.Which is the best, depends on your personality type. In the singe air the ratio between rebound and compression damping is set by RR, So if you are the sort of chap who finishes his ride and thinks, '' What I need to do, is take 4psi of the rebound and put it on the compression''. Then they are not really for you. If you are a set it and forget it chap then the single airs are a lot less fussCurrently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
Which is the best, depends on your personality type. In the singe air the ratio between rebound and compression damping is set by RR, So if you are the sort of chap who finishes his ride and thinks, '' What I need to do, is take 4psi of the rebound and put it on the compression''. Then they are not really for you. If you are a set it and forget it chap then the single airs are a lot less fuss
I don't think you understand how forks work.
I would go for new Solo Air RLs, they're simply very good.Current fleet
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Air pressure doesn't effect rebound or compression damping......it changes the progression of the air spring as a whole.Which is the best, depends on your personality type. In the singe air the ratio between rebound and compression damping is set by RR, So if you are the sort of chap who finishes his ride and thinks, '' What I need to do, is take 4psi of the rebound and put it on the compression''. Then they are not really for you. If you are a set it and forget it chap then the single airs are a lot less fuss
There are TWO chambers acting against each other, When the Main(positive) air spring is returning to its extended position. the negative air spring resist and slows down its rate of travel
This is commonly refereed to as REBOUND damping, for the reason that it damps the rate of rebound0 -
Still don't think you understand how suspension work...0
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Nope, there is a separate rebound damping system.
The compression side has nothing to do with rebound damping. It just changes the compression characteristics.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0 -
Rebound damping, takes place inside the damper. This is located in the drive side leg and if this is full of air, you're doing something badly wrong. The positive and negative air springs are in the non-drive side leg, far away from the damping.
The negative spring is designed to counteract and less stiction and resistance, not damp rebound motionCurrent fleet
2015 Transition Scout
2012 Nukeproof Scalp
2016 Genesis Latitude
2012 Transition Double
2012 Transition Trail or Park
2006 Trek SL1000
2017 Fly Proton
???? Create Polo Bike0 -
I know where the damping unit is, BUT. , increasing the negative pressure has the effect of increasing the effective rebound dampingRebound damping, takes place inside the damper. This is located in the drive side leg and if this is full of air, you're doing something badly wrong. The positive and negative air springs are in the non-drive side leg, far away from the damping.0 -
Put the shovel down
I know where the damping unit is, BUT. , increasing the negative pressure has the effect of increasing the effective rebound dampingRebound damping, takes place inside the damper. This is located in the drive side leg and if this is full of air, you're doing something badly wrong. The positive and negative air springs are in the non-drive side leg, far away from the damping.0 -
Brian, the air spring is.....well, a spring, not damping, the more you say, the bigger twat you make yourself look.
Go away and come back once you understand how it works.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
Springs and dampers are very different things.
You don't adjust spring pressures to change damping. You adjust positive and negative pressures to adjust spring progression. If you want to adjust damping you adjust the damper settings.
If both are the same then why would the Reba have adjustable positive and negative pressure AND adjustable compression and rebound?Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Brian, the air spring is.....well, a spring, not damping, the more you say, the bigger fool you make yourself look.
Go away and come back once you understand how it works.
And One air spring slows down the rate of return of the other (air spring) It seem to be yourself thats slow at catching on0 -
Brian, the air spring is.....well, a spring, not damping, the more you say, the bigger fool you make yourself look.
Go away and come back once you understand how it works.
And One air spring slows down the rate of return of the other (air spring) It seem to be yourself thats slow at catching on
No, that's simply not how it works.Current fleet
2015 Transition Scout
2012 Nukeproof Scalp
2016 Genesis Latitude
2012 Transition Double
2012 Transition Trail or Park
2006 Trek SL1000
2017 Fly Proton
???? Create Polo Bike0 -
Brian, the air spring is.....well, a spring, not damping, the more you say, the bigger fool you make yourself look.
Go away and come back once you understand how it works.
And One air spring slows down the rate of return of the other (air spring) It seem to be yourself thats slow at catching on
No, that's simply not how it works.
Thats not how you understand it, but it is a point of fact0 -
Brian, the air spring is.....well, a spring, not damping, the more you say, the bigger fool you make yourself look.
Go away and come back once you understand how it works.
And One air spring slows down the rate of return of the other (air spring) It seem to be yourself thats slow at catching on
No, that's simply not how it works.
Thats not how you understand it, but it is a point of fact
Read the definition of damping and spring. They are two different things. They are often found together and some types of spring have inherent damping but air springs don't which is why air (and coil) springs need a damper to control them. Dual air simply uses springs in series to give specific spring characteristics.
If a the purpose of a dual air spring was to give compression and rebound damping adjustment then why are there adjustable dampers as well? Surely that would be pointless.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
The negative spring doesn't slow the rebound action at all. Try some springs in series calculations, it's physical impossible.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350
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Brian, the air spring is.....well, a spring, not damping, the more you say, the bigger fool you make yourself look.
Go away and come back once you understand how it works.
And One air spring slows down the rate of return of the other (air spring) It seem to be yourself thats slow at catching on
No, that's simply not how it works.
Thats not how you understand it, but it is a point of fact
The pressure in the positive air spring behaves in the same manner as a coil spring; it's function is to determine how much (magnitude) of compression is afforded by an input force.
The damper determines the rate at which it does so.Current fleet
2015 Transition Scout
2012 Nukeproof Scalp
2016 Genesis Latitude
2012 Transition Double
2012 Transition Trail or Park
2006 Trek SL1000
2017 Fly Proton
???? Create Polo Bike0 -
Here's an idea; why not remove the damper unit from your forks and tell us how much damping it has after?Current fleet
2015 Transition Scout
2012 Nukeproof Scalp
2016 Genesis Latitude
2012 Transition Double
2012 Transition Trail or Park
2006 Trek SL1000
2017 Fly Proton
???? Create Polo Bike0 -
The negative changes the spring rate (which is positive minus negative) damping resists motion and the force a damper applies is a function of speed of compression or rebound, the negative changes the spring rate and springs don't change force depending on speed. You simply do not understand spring/damper systems at all.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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Unusually for Wikipedia it's explained quite well here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping
Not relating to suspension damping specifically but the viscous damping principal is the same.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
I really hate to admit it, but in a way he is right. The negative springs job is to encourage the fork to compress with less effort. So there is a force acting against the rebound rate of the main spring. It's not damping in the slightest way and under full compression would be such a tiny amount I think anyone would struggle to notice the difference.0
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I agree it is unhelpful to use such a broad term, when most mountain bikers understand damping to be something the oil in the driveside leg controls.
Like I said, the effects of this are going to be so minimal that it would probably be better calling it something like 'breakaway resistance' or 'top out control' as this is the point where the negative spring will have the greatest effect on the main spring0 -
I really hate to admit it, but in a way he is right. The negative springs job is to encourage the fork to compress with less effort. So there is a force acting against the rebound rate of the main spring. It's not damping in the slightest way and under full compression would be such a tiny amount I think anyone would struggle to notice the difference.
Thanks for the acknowledgment , But it is DAMPING if it slows down the rate of return , by a lot or a little its still damping0 -
I really hate to admit it, but in a way he is right. The negative springs job is to encourage the fork to compress with less effort. So there is a force acting against the rebound rate of the main spring. It's not damping in the slightest way and under full compression would be such a tiny amount I think anyone would struggle to notice the difference.
Thanks for the acknowledgment , But it is DAMPING if it slows down the rate of return , by a lot or a little its still damping
I re-read what I put. Yes, it dampens the spring. I probably should have put something more along the lines of "The negative air spring is not there to dampen the main spring and under compression it's effects are minimal" for the highlighted part.0 -
By that definition anything that mildly impedes the motion of the fork through it's travel in either direction could be included in your definition of damping. Hence the wiper seals are also having a damping effect, but it is similarly minimal. Just getting into pointless degrees of unnecessary pedantry.Current fleet
2015 Transition Scout
2012 Nukeproof Scalp
2016 Genesis Latitude
2012 Transition Double
2012 Transition Trail or Park
2006 Trek SL1000
2017 Fly Proton
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That's brummy Brian for you0
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Despite being shown to be wrong by many experienced people he still is too dumb to see he's talking out his orifice.
Still at least Revell Rider has outed himself as being just as dumb....the negative does not dampen the positive spring, it just changes the effective spring rate of the two which act combined, there is NO damping effect at all.
A damper resists motion and applies no force when there is no motion, a spring a applies a force that is related to position but is unaffected by the speed of motion (compression or rebound), it's really not that hard to understand for those with an IQ over 80.
The negative changes the spring force exerted by the positive, the two add together to provide one single spring force, the progression in each due to the changing volume in each chamber and the effect that has on pressure (so the negative drops pressure as the fork goes into bump further while the positive pressure increase).
I've been playing with Car and RC car suspension for many years......I also have 26 years in the automotive industry and while I've never worked in the chassis team, I do work with them regularly.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
I move to strike Brianbee's POV as irrelevant from all posts :P0
