Why do mountain Bikes come with HUGE stems??
odessouky
Posts: 264
So...my replacement bike arrived...
I had already bought a few second hand stems and bars off ebay fore REAL cheap, to experiment and then settle on a final setup, and then maybe buy some quality parts...
My bike is a Giant Anthem 27.5 2..Medium...I'm 178cm, 30" inseam..
The bike comes with a HUMONGOUS 100mm stem...and 690mm bars...
I have bought 70mm and 40mm stems to experiment...
An 800mm bar has not yet arrived...
So, I took the 100mm stem off, and went with the extreme choice...the 40mm...
So...I'm a MTB newbie...and do not have that much experience off road...and in almost every article/review I read in mags or online...there is a comment about how inappropriately long the stems and narrow bars are etc...
Well...took the bike for a 30 min spin with the 100mm and then put on the 40mm stem..
I cannot begin to describe the DIFFERENCE in handling..!!!
I have MUCH better control and instantly felt I have control over the front of the bike, and go where I want it to go with much better precision...
LOWS:
Bike definitely feels smaller now...I moved the saddle back which helped a little...
I think the shorter stem made the 690mm bars feel even narrower..the 800mm will be interesting...
So...Why do major brands stock their bikes with such long stems??? A shorter stem should be technically CHEAPER??
Thanks for reading my unreasonably long post..
Pics of BEFORE and AFTER..
Yes..yes...I left the bell on the bike...
Where I do my local rides...there are tons of people walking their dogs etc... :oops:
I had already bought a few second hand stems and bars off ebay fore REAL cheap, to experiment and then settle on a final setup, and then maybe buy some quality parts...
My bike is a Giant Anthem 27.5 2..Medium...I'm 178cm, 30" inseam..
The bike comes with a HUMONGOUS 100mm stem...and 690mm bars...
I have bought 70mm and 40mm stems to experiment...
An 800mm bar has not yet arrived...
So, I took the 100mm stem off, and went with the extreme choice...the 40mm...
So...I'm a MTB newbie...and do not have that much experience off road...and in almost every article/review I read in mags or online...there is a comment about how inappropriately long the stems and narrow bars are etc...
Well...took the bike for a 30 min spin with the 100mm and then put on the 40mm stem..
I cannot begin to describe the DIFFERENCE in handling..!!!
I have MUCH better control and instantly felt I have control over the front of the bike, and go where I want it to go with much better precision...
LOWS:
Bike definitely feels smaller now...I moved the saddle back which helped a little...
I think the shorter stem made the 690mm bars feel even narrower..the 800mm will be interesting...
So...Why do major brands stock their bikes with such long stems??? A shorter stem should be technically CHEAPER??
Thanks for reading my unreasonably long post..
Pics of BEFORE and AFTER..
Yes..yes...I left the bell on the bike...
Where I do my local rides...there are tons of people walking their dogs etc... :oops:
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Comments
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old/normal mtb sizing is brought over from road bikes, and some companies refuse to move to the new trent of long reach short stem combo, for various reasons stick with what most people regard as normal sizing and then you get bikes like the one you ride.
Not every rider though agrees with mondrakers way of sizing bikes.“I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
― Kurt Vonnegut0 -
old/normal mtb sizing is brought over from road bikes, and some companies refuse to move to the new trent of long reach short stem combo, for various reasons stick with what most people regard as normal sizing and then you get bikes like the one you ride.
Not every rider though agrees with mondrakers way of sizing bikes.
My argument is that the handling felt so much better with the 40mm stem...regardless of reach...0 -
The Anthem is an xc bike and a longer stem is appropriate for that type of bike. The longer stem gives a more stretched out riding position which is better for climbing.
40mm is extremely short and if you're putting handling before climbing and XC performance you bought the wrong bike. If you're going 60mm shorter with your stem that would suggest your bike is too big.
If you look at the Giant Reign you will see it comes with a 50mm stem. They can't go shorter because they need to leave room for adjustment in both directions.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
The Anthem is an xc bike and a longer stem is appropriate for that type of bike. The longer stem gives a more stretched out riding position which is better for climbing.
40mm is extremely short and if you're putting handling before climbing and XC performance you bought the wrong bike. If you're going 60mm shorter with your stem that would suggest your bike is too big.
If you look at the Giant Reign you will see it comes with a 50mm stem. They can't go shorter because they need to leave room for adjustment in both directions.
Totally understand your points...
I understand that the very short stem and wider bars are mainly for DH etc...
But why put a name on the type of riding anyone would do?
Why would I be better off with a 100mm stem, when it makes steering feel vague?
I felt much better control with the 40mm...
I understand that its too short...and probably will end up with the 70mm stem on the long term...
I think the notion that XC=long stem and DH=short stem should not be set in stone?
I enjoyed the bike with the 40mm, granted it was cramped, but I think the 70mm will make the bike far more responsive and fun over the 100mm, even if all I'll do will be XC0 -
The Anthem is an xc bike and a longer stem is appropriate for that type of bike. The longer stem gives a more stretched out riding position which is better for climbing.
40mm is extremely short and if you're putting handling before climbing and XC performance you bought the wrong bike. If you're going 60mm shorter with your stem that would suggest your bike is too big.
If you look at the Giant Reign you will see it comes with a 50mm stem. They can't go shorter because they need to leave room for adjustment in both directions.
Totally understand your points...
I understand that the very short stem and wider bars are mainly for DH etc...
But why put a name on the type of riding anyone would do?
Why would I be better off with a 100mm stem, when it makes steering feel vague?
I felt much better control with the 40mm...
I understand that its too short...and probably will end up with the 70mm stem on the long term...
I think the notion that XC=long stem and DH=short stem should not be set in stone?
I enjoyed the bike with the 40mm, granted it was cramped, but I think the 70mm will make the bike far more responsive and fun over the 100mm, even if all I'll do will be XC
I do alot of xc riding and for the reasons rockmonkey gives a longer stem works best for me. If i mainly rode trail centres and more downhill then i wouldn't be riding an xc mountain bike. In the end its what works for you not what the current trend is. In the early 1990's narrow flat bars, bar ends and small pedals with straps were common. My early 1990's MTB was quickly given a wider riser bar and BMX style pedals which improved the stability and handling dramatically. My current xc MTB has wider bars again and 29" wheels as it rode the way i prefer.
Just ride the trails and enjoy it
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The Anthem is an xc bike and a longer stem is appropriate for that type of bike. The longer stem gives a more stretched out riding position which is better for climbing.
40mm is extremely short and if you're putting handling before climbing and XC performance you bought the wrong bike. If you're going 60mm shorter with your stem that would suggest your bike is too big.
If you look at the Giant Reign you will see it comes with a 50mm stem. They can't go shorter because they need to leave room for adjustment in both directions.
Totally understand your points...
I understand that the very short stem and wider bars are mainly for DH etc...
But why put a name on the type of riding anyone would do?
Why would I be better off with a 100mm stem, when it makes steering feel vague?
I felt much better control with the 40mm...
I understand that its too short...and probably will end up with the 70mm stem on the long term...
I think the notion that XC=long stem and DH=short stem should not be set in stone?
I enjoyed the bike with the 40mm, granted it was cramped, but I think the 70mm will make the bike far more responsive and fun over the 100mm, even if all I'll do will be XC
I do alot of xc riding and for the reasons rockmonkey gives a longer stem works best for me. If i mainly rode trail centres and more downhill then i wouldn't be riding an xc mountain bike. In the end its what works for you not what the current trend is. In the early 1990's narrow flat bars, bar ends and small pedals with straps were common. My early 1990's MTB was quickly given a wider riser bar and BMX style pedals which improved the stability and handling dramatically. My current xc MTB has wider bars again and 29" wheels as it rode the way i prefer.
Just ride the trails and enjoy it
yep...that makes sense...thanks! 0 -
Totally understand your points...
I understand that the very short stem and wider bars are mainly for DH etc...
But why put a name on the type of riding anyone would do?
Why would I be better off with a 100mm stem, when it makes steering feel vague?
I felt much better control with the 40mm...
I understand that its too short...and probably will end up with the 70mm stem on the long term...
I think the notion that XC=long stem and DH=short stem should not be set in stone?
I enjoyed the bike with the 40mm, granted it was cramped, but I think the 70mm will make the bike far more responsive and fun over the 100mm, even if all I'll do will be XC
The Anthem is designed as a XC race bike, the geometry of the bike is for fast efficient climbing of hills and an aggressive stretched out position for fast racing. This does compromise the downhill handling of the bike. The long stem and relative steep headtube angle coupled with a short travel fork means the bike is easier to weight the front wheel on climbs.
A more trail friendly bike will have slacker headtube angles, a shorter stem and usually more suspension travel. This results in a bike that is an all round performer. Confident when pointed downhill, but still able to climb back to the top reasonably well.
A downhill bike is the extreme opposite to the Anthem. Longer suspension travel, super slack headangle and short stems put the riders weight behind the front wheel on steeper terrain giving loads of confidence but an incredibly poor climbing performance.
Generally speaking, trail bikes are getting slacker and longer top tubes with shorter stems, giving a more DH like feel for technical terrain but XC bikes still come with fairly long stems because of their intended purposes.0 -
You bought the wrong bike. It sounds like the things that the Anthem is specifically designed to do well aren't that important to you ie climb efficiently and provide an efficient relatively aero pedaling position. Mind you an XC bike with a shorter stem is a good compromise if you want the light weight combined with snappy handling and don't go too big on it.
why assume I'm on the wrong bike..
I only do XC, and did all those things you mention in your post, climbing, quick pedaling etc...and it felt GREAT with the short stem...
I'll never do DH, Enduro etc...or whatever they r called, as I'll probably kill myself....
I'm 42, and pretty out of shape...I got the Anthem because its FS, comfy, light, great for XC....and all I said is that when I experimented with a shorter stem, everything felt more fun...
Granted...its extremely short, but I could not resist the £4.50 winning bid on ebay...
I'll end up with the 70mm for sure....now...3cm shorter reach is not that aggressive...?0 -
Don't want to jump on a thread, but I have a HT and FS frame in mind.
Read the comments.
Now a serious question, how many people would notice the difference between the two?
Think I am one of them too.
I want a FS or HT.
Can you notice the difference and how do you know what one to cut your teeth on?0 -
why assume I'm on the wrong bike..
I only do XC, and did all those things you mention in your post, climbing, quick pedaling etc...and it felt GREAT with the short stem...
I'll never do DH, Enduro etc...or whatever they r called, as I'll probably kill myself....
I'm 42, and pretty out of shape...I got the Anthem because its FS, comfy, light, great for XC....and all I said is that when I experimented with a shorter stem, everything felt more fun...
Same here (kind of). I bought an Anthem as it suits the type of riding that I do and can handle some fun on the downs also. Its a small frame as I am 5.5" and came with 700cm riser bars from the previous owner. I have suffered with lower back problems for the last 18 years and while its initial set-up felt Ok it was just a little too stretched, so swapped the 100mm stem for a 50mm and now it feels loads better. The only time it loses out is when the climbing gets REALLY steep but it just takes a little more rider input to keep the front down.Mind you an XC bike with a shorter stem is a good compromise if you want the light weight combined with snappy handling and don't go too big on it.
This sums it up ^0 -
I am 5'10" and ride a Large Anthem SX with a 50 mm stem reduced from either 90 or 100 mm. I ride mostly XC and like the feeling of having the front wheel tracking in line with where I feel my weight transfers through the bar rather than slightly behind.
In terms of unwanted lifting of the front wheel I don't think it makes as big a difference as some think shortening stem lengths if you have the same seat position for both. The shorter stem tends to be fitted lower and as such doesn't neccesarily move your weight back depending on your climbing technique. If you climb out of the saddle with a long stem I also find it can be hard to keep enough weight far enough back for good traction.
I said it in another thread but I think the Anthems are a bit behind current geometry and fitting both in frame sizing and finishing kit. Most people don't race them, they just ride them . I think they should be lengthened slightly for every size frame and shorter stems fitted.
Bearing in mind, in the UK, the average height is 5'10" it seems daft that so many people have a bit a conundrum where Anthems are concerned r.e. Fitting. You need a leg length of about 33" to fit a Large because of the high crossbar. However if don't want to run a 100mm stem you can easily find the medium feels too short.0 -
I am 5'10" and ride a Large Anthem SX with a 50 mm stem reduced from either 90 or 100 mm. I ride mostly XC and like the feeling of having the front wheel tracking in line with where I feel my weight transfers through the bar rather than slightly behind.
In terms of unwanted lifting of the front wheel I don't think it makes as big a difference as some think shortening stem lengths if you have the same seat position for both. The shorter stem tends to be fitted lower and as such doesn't neccesarily move your weight back depending on your climbing technique. If you climb out of the saddle with a long stem I also find it can be hard to keep enough weight far enough back for good traction.
I said it in another thread but I think the Anthems are a bit behind current geometry and fitting both in frame sizing and finishing kit. Most people don't race them, they just ride them . I think they should be lengthened slightly for every size frame and shorter stems fitted.
Bearing in mind, in the UK, the average height is 5'10" it seems daft that so many people have a bit a conundrum where Anthems are concerned r.e. Fitting. You need a leg length of about 33" to fit a Large because of the high crossbar. However if don't want to run a 100mm stem you can easily find the medium feels too short.
That's what I was worried about when I ordered the bike..
I was contemplating ordering a Large anthem as I had planned on putting on a shorter stem, but almost everyone on the forum warned me that a large will have minimal stand over clearance, as I'm 5'10" with 30" inseam...mmm0 -
Basically the designers in the cycling world collaborate with teams and test riders to bring you the best bike that they think you can buy. The frame then is put into production and the cost is decided to the bike brand they then have a product manager that decides the specifications for the bikes. Now because they have o follow market trend they are normally a year or so behind on the smaller details like stem length. But traditionally the bikes used to have 100-120mm stems. Arguably now XC bikes have become a lot longer so they can use a 75mm stem. But if you are trying to be efficient up hill you have to balance your body weight so in simple term a short stems puts your weight towards the back causing a struggling wheelie sensation. A longer stem will centralise your weight for better climbing. Look at XC world cup they all have their stems upside down.0
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I am 5'10" and ride a Large Anthem SX with a 50 mm stem reduced from either 90 or 100 mm. I ride mostly XC and like the feeling of having the front wheel tracking in line with where I feel my weight transfers through the bar rather than slightly behind.
In terms of unwanted lifting of the front wheel I don't think it makes as big a difference as some think shortening stem lengths if you have the same seat position for both. The shorter stem tends to be fitted lower and as such doesn't neccesarily move your weight back depending on your climbing technique. If you climb out of the saddle with a long stem I also find it can be hard to keep enough weight far enough back for good traction.
I said it in another thread but I think the Anthems are a bit behind current geometry and fitting both in frame sizing and finishing kit. Most people don't race them, they just ride them . I think they should be lengthened slightly for every size frame and shorter stems fitted.
Bearing in mind, in the UK, the average height is 5'10" it seems daft that so many people have a bit a conundrum where Anthems are concerned r.e. Fitting. You need a leg length of about 33" to fit a Large because of the high crossbar. However if don't want to run a 100mm stem you can easily find the medium feels too short.
That's what I was worried about when I ordered the bike..
I was contemplating ordering a Large anthem as I had planned on putting on a shorter stem, but almost everyone on the forum warned me that a large will have minimal stand over clearance, as I'm 5'10" with 30" inseam...mmm
A large may or may not have been too big, which is why it is important to try before you buy, especially if you aren't sure.
If you like the Anthem with a short stem and wider bars, thats fine, it works for you. Possibly not the norm for the type of frame, but who cares where everyone else thinks 8)0 -
Do you have to work at spouting BS or does it come naturally?Basically the designers in the cycling world collaborate with teams and test riders to bring you the best bike that they think you can buy. The frame then is put into production and the cost is decided to the bike brand they then have a product manager that decides the specifications for the bikes. Now because they have o follow market trend they are normally a year or so behind on the smaller details like stem length. But traditionally the bikes used to have 100-120mm stems. Arguably now XC bikes have become a lot longer so they can use a 75mm stem. But if you are trying to be efficient up hill you have to balance your body weight so in simple term a short stems puts your weight towards the back causing a struggling wheelie sensation. A longer stem will centralise your weight for better climbing. Look at XC world cup they all have their stems upside down.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
