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Going from 7 speed 3 ring to 11 speed two ring

MiniMaltsMiniMalts Posts: 266
edited November 2015 in Road beginners
Basically, will I miss the 3rd smaller ring? There are very few instances where I have used it, but where I use it, I need it.

I've gone from a Ridgeback Speed 7 speed 32T (from the specs I can see online as the bike is hundreds of miles away) to a Genesis Croix de Fer 30, 22 speed 32T. I have a feeling I'm going to find this a difficult bike to get used, especially on the few uphill sections I use the smaller front ring on the Speed.

Posts

  • It's hard to say without knowing the specifics of the gearing on your current bike. I assume the 32t you mention is the largest sprocket on the rear cassette, and the same on both bikes?

    Chances are the smallest chainring on your Ridgeback's triple will be a little smaller than that on the Genesis, which as far as I can tell has a standard 50/34t compact on the front. That said, 34 front & 32 rear is pretty low - almost 1:1, and on a bike like the Genesis, should be fine for scaling most sheer cliff faces!

    You're going from a fairly hefty-looking commuter/hybrid to a much lighter, more efficient "proper" road bike. I suspect the change in gearing will make a lot less difference than you might expect.
  • It's hard to say without knowing the specifics of the gearing on your current bike. I assume the 32t you mention is the largest sprocket on the rear cassette, and the same on both bikes?

    Chances are the smallest chainring on your Ridgeback's triple will be a little smaller than that on the Genesis, which as far as I can tell has a standard 50/34t compact on the front. That said, 34 front & 32 rear is pretty low - almost 1:1, and on a bike like the Genesis, should be fine for scaling most sheer cliff faces!

    You're going from a fairly hefty-looking commuter/hybrid to a much lighter, more efficient "proper" road bike. I suspect the change in gearing will make a lot less difference than you might expect.

    Yep, 32T is the teeth count on the largest rear sprocket of both bikes.

    According to the specs I can see online of the Ridgeback 2015 the smallest chainring has 28 teeth and Genesis has 34 (4 less than the middle ring of the Speed).

    I should have said, I'm kitting the Genesis out with mudguards and rack etc to use as a touring bike so will be carrying an additional 15kg or thereabouts over my own body weight of 133 kg.
  • dj58dj58 Posts: 2,193
    edited November 2015
    I don't think you would miss the granny ring, once you get used to the Genesis bike you will adjust to the gearing difference. If you do need a lower gear than 34/32 the first thing to do is swop the 34 inner ring for a 33, which is the smallest you can go on a compact, and see how you get on.
  • I don't think you would miss the granny ring, once you get used to the Genesis bike you will adjust to the gearing difference. If you do need a lower gear than 34/32 the first thing to do is swop the 32 inner ring for a 33, which is the smallest you can go on a compact, and see how you get on.

    You should check the weight limits
  • As above, 34x32 is a good low gear. Having a triple isn't only about having really low gears - you can usually use the whole range of the cassette with the middle ring, which gives you a good range of useful gears. Personally, if I were putting together a touring bike, I'd almost certainly go for a triple, but I suspect that what you have chosen will work for you.
  • I don't think you would miss the granny ring, once you get used to the Genesis bike you will adjust to the gearing difference. If you do need a lower gear than 34/32 the first thing to do is swop the 32 inner ring for a 33, which is the smallest you can go on a compact, and see how you get on.

    You should check the weight limits

    Huh? weight limits for rings?
  • ForumNewbieForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    The difference you may notice is that when you move down from the 50 to 34 ring at the front. As it will be a bigger drop than your triple from big ring to middle or from middle ring to granny, you may need to move up a gear at the back to stop spinning in too low a gear. You'll get used to it though.
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,426
    Yes you will notice the difference at the bottom end of your gearing. Your existing bike has a bottom gear of 28/32, or 23.6in. Your new bike has a bottom gear of 34/32, or 28.7in. Effectively, this will mean losing your current bottom gear. When carrying luggage, a bottom gear of 23.6in will enable you to climb all but the very steepest hills while seated. With a bottom gear of 28.7in, you will have to stand on the pedals to get up a similar hill with luggage.

    It all depends how strong you are and how much luggage you are carrying. A 28.7in gear is very low for an unladen road bike and you would be able to ride comfortably up anything with it. Add 15kg of luggage, however, and you will have to stand on the pedals to climb anything above around 10 per cent. Longer hills such as Alpine passes would be a struggle with a laden bike on a 34/32 gear. As peviously said, the big jump between 50 and 34 rings can be annoying and you may have to double shift to maintain cadence. If you only do occasional laden touring in the UK, this gearing would be fine - as long as you are pretty fit. But at your current body weight, I think you may be walking up steeper hills if you are carrying luggage.
  • OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...
  • dj58dj58 Posts: 2,193
    I don't think you would miss the granny ring, once you get used to the Genesis bike you will adjust to the gearing difference. If you do need a lower gear than 34/32 the first thing to do is swop the 32 inner ring for a 33, which is the smallest you can go on a compact, and see how you get on.

    You should check the weight limits

    I don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate? As I understand it the OP is thinking about buying, or has bought a 22 speed double and as opposed to a his 21 speed triple, is asking if the lowest gear is going to be low enough for how/where he rides.

    What weight limits need checking? Limits for the Genesis for fitting mudguards and rack and panniers plus his body weight?
  • I don't think you would miss the granny ring, once you get used to the Genesis bike you will adjust to the gearing difference. If you do need a lower gear than 34/32 the first thing to do is swop the 32 inner ring for a 33, which is the smallest you can go on a compact, and see how you get on.

    You should check the weight limits

    I don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate? As I understand it the OP is thinking about buying, or has bought a 22 speed double and as opposed to a his 21 speed triple, is asking if the lowest gear is going to be low enough for how/where he rides.

    What weight limits need checking? Limits for the Genesis for fitting mudguards and rack and panniers plus his body weight

    Sorry some sort of cross posting. I was referring to the combined weight of OP and his kit coming to 150kgs
  • dj58dj58 Posts: 2,193
    OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...

    What transmission components does the Genesis come with?
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,426
    OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...[/quote

    Will you really be carrying 15kg of luggage? That's a lot. It's what I use as a maximum when I go touring with full camping gear. If you really are carrying that sort of load, you need a bottom gear of around 23in, which is what I use (24/28). For B&B touring, a bottom gear of 27 or 28in is fine.

    Try it first and see how you get on. Converting to a complete triple system would be very expensive. But you could usefully lower your gears by fitting a smaller double than the 50-34 compact chainset and keeping your existing levers and mechs.

    For example, the Sugino OX601D chainset (£199.99 from hubjub.co.uk) comes with various choices including 44-30 which would give you a better bottom gear for loaded riding (25.3in) and it will take down to a 24 little ring which would give an incredibly low bottom gear. Rings, however, are for 10-speed chains so may or may not work with your 11-speed set-up. It has Shimano-style external bearing bottom brackets.

    Spa Cycles offer traditional square taper chainsets and cartridge bottom brackets with a choice of smaller rings than 50-34. Again, the issue would be whether this would work with an 11-speed chain. However, I think I remember people on this forum saying they have got 11-speed chains to work OK with 10-speed rings.
  • OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...

    What transmission components does the Genesis come with?

    http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/94157/products/genesis-croix-de-fer-30-2015-blue.aspx
  • dj58dj58 Posts: 2,193
    edited November 2015
    Middleburn do an 11sp double super compact 46/30T though you would also need their matching 5 arm crankset. http://www.middleburn.co.uk/products/cranks/road-touring-cyclo-x

    Just noticed that the bike you linked to has the FC-RS500 5 arm crankset so you could try a 33T inner ring
    http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s113p1964
  • OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...

    Will you really be carrying 15kg of luggage? That's a lot. It's what I use as a maximum when I go touring with full camping gear. If you really are carrying that sort of load, you need a bottom gear of around 23in, which is what I use (24/28). For B&B touring, a bottom gear of 27 or 28in is fine.

    Try it first and see how you get on. Converting to a complete triple system would be very expensive. But you could usefully lower your gears by fitting a smaller double than the 50-34 compact chainset and keeping your existing levers and mechs.

    For example, the Sugino OX601D chainset (£199.99 from hubjub.co.uk) comes with various choices including 44-30 which would give you a better bottom gear for loaded riding (25.3in) and it will take down to a 24 little ring which would give an incredibly low bottom gear. Rings, however, are for 10-speed chains so may or may not work with your 11-speed set-up. It has Shimano-style external bearing bottom brackets.

    Spa Cycles offer traditional square taper chainsets and cartridge bottom brackets with a choice of smaller rings than 50-34. Again, the issue would be whether this would work with an 11-speed chain. However, I think I remember people on this forum saying they have got 11-speed chains to work OK with 10-speed rings.

    Probably would like to keep it to 10kg of luggage max.

    Yeah, going to ride it a bit (unladen) and compare it to how I get on on the hills I usually ride on the Ridgeback. Then I might add some weight and see how I do. I've been googling images of 10% hills to compare to the hills that I know and 10% doesn't look very steep at all. :(

    Hmmm, lets see how I get on before going to that expense. I will certainly keep it in mind for if I don't get on with it as it is. In the shop I asked the salesman "the lack of third ring on the front will be offset with the extra gears at the back?" Him "Yes, you won't see much of a difference." :/
  • " wrote:



    For example, the Sugino OX601D chainset (£199.99 from hubjub.co.uk) comes with various choices including 44-30 which would give you a better bottom gear for loaded riding (25.3in) and it will take down to a 24 little ring which would give an incredibly low bottom gear. Rings, however, are for 10-speed chains so may or may not work with your 11-speed set-up. It has Shimano-style external bearing bottom brackets.
    Middleburn do an 11sp double super compact 46/30T though you would also need their matching 5 arm crankset. http://www.middleburn.co.uk/products/cranks/road-touring-cyclo-x

    Do either of these options involve changing the bottom bracket or will they fit straight on?
  • ForumNewbieForumNewbie Posts: 1,664
    OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...
    You'll get on with it fine, especially if you are taking the bare minimum touring. It would be a bit odd to try and add a granny ring to a compact - effectively changing it to a triple with a middle ring on 34. You would have to change other components as well to make it work. Not really worth considering.
  • OK, so what would be involved in adding a 3rd ring at the front or isn't it possible, or would it involve changing far too much?

    Of course I'll try it as it is first and see how it goes. But if I don't get on with it....

    I've only carried luggage once and to be honest I had my laptop and a bottle of vodka in it so when I do some real touring I won't be taking those, in fact, I really only will be taking the bare minimum. Without the laptop and vodka I'd probably save 5kg...
    You'll get on with it fine, especially if you are taking the bare minimum touring. It would be a bit odd to try and add a granny ring to a compact - effectively changing it to a triple with a middle ring on 34. You would have to change other components as well to make it work. Not really worth considering.

    I guess all in all, its an incentive to get fitter before the Spring. :)
  • dj58dj58 Posts: 2,193
    According to the Middleburn website their cranks should work with your Shimano 24mm external BB4600 BB.

    "There are a number of RO2 road chain set choices to choose from depending on what ring size you want to run, as well as chain set builds designed for Cyclo X and for use on Touring machines.

    The RO2 cranks are designed for use with our bottom bracket or an equivalent 24mm Bottom bracket."

    Before you go changing anything I'd do a trial run with all your additional items added to the bike as it is.
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,426
    Had a look at the website mentioned by DJ58 and the Middleburn chainset with the new 11-speed rings looks fantastic. With the big range offered by 11-speed cassettes it gives a really good alternative to a triple for touring with a load. I see Middleburn chainsets would apparently fit straight onto a bike with Shimano external bearing cups fitted (as would I believe the Sugino). Middleburn also do a chainset suitable for touring, the Incy, with traditional cartridge BB. It's a high quality British-made range, but expensive.

    I would suggest the OP takes with a pinch of salt the claims of the salesman. There is a big difference in the bottom gears of his current and future bikes. I previously said he would effectively lose his bottom gear. In fact he would lose second gear as well. So the question is: would he feel confident riding uphill with luggage in third gear on his current bike? It's all down to the terrain and personal strength and fitness. A fairly heavy newcomer to cycling would manage touring with a load and a 50/34 chainset in flat and rolling eastern England but would struggle in hilly areas like my home in the Shropshire/Welsh border country.

    But, as everyone has said, the best advice is to try out the new bike with its 50/34 chainset which should be fine for only occasional laden touring in non-hilly areas. If OP finds it hard going or wants to do more serious touring in hilly or mountainous areas, getting a new lower super compact chainset would be a better option than going full triple.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Probably would like to keep it to 10kg of luggage max.

    10kg? For "real touring"? With tents etc? Good luck with that!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Had a look at the website mentioned by DJ58 and the Middleburn chainset with the new 11-speed rings looks fantastic. With the big range offered by 11-speed cassettes it gives a really good alternative to a triple for touring with a load. I see Middleburn chainsets would apparently fit straight onto a bike with Shimano external bearing cups fitted (as would I believe the Sugino). Middleburn also do a chainset suitable for touring, the Incy, with traditional cartridge BB. It's a high quality British-made range, but expensive.

    I would suggest the OP takes with a pinch of salt the claims of the salesman. There is a big difference in the bottom gears of his current and future bikes. I previously said he would effectively lose his bottom gear. In fact he would lose second gear as well. So the question is: would he feel confident riding uphill with luggage in third gear on his current bike? It's all down to the terrain and personal strength and fitness. A fairly heavy newcomer to cycling would manage touring with a load and a 50/34 chainset in flat and rolling eastern England but would struggle in hilly areas like my home in the Shropshire/Welsh border country.

    But, as everyone has said, the best advice is to try out the new bike with its 50/34 chainset which should be fine for only occasional laden touring in non-hilly areas. If OP finds it hard going or wants to do more serious touring in hilly or mountainous areas, getting a new lower super compact chainset would be a better option than going full triple.

    Yeah, seriously going to keep the Middleburg chainsets in mind. :)
  • Probably would like to keep it to 10kg of luggage max.

    10kg? For "real touring"? With tents etc? Good luck with that!

    Not sure I'd go as far as tents. :0
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Probably would like to keep it to 10kg of luggage max.

    10kg? For "real touring"? With tents etc? Good luck with that!

    Not sure I'd go as far as tents. :0

    TBH, I wouldn't want to tour without a tent! Much more restrictive without a tent.

    I did see a bloke in Sweden touring with a CX bike and a trailer. He had crossed over Telemark from Bergen to Oslo. Said the hills were tough but he was a young lad! I didn't envy his gearing. As Simon mentioned, one nice thing about triples is that you rarely need to move out of the middle chainring. I reckon the outer ring was only used for about 5% of the distance and the inner ring 5% of the time. Otherwise it was 36 on the front and 11-34 on the back. That worked pretty well for Scandinavia but might be still a bit tough in parts of the UK. I'll probably re ring the front to 24-34-44 from the current 26-36-48 which at least will give the big ring more work to do.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Probably would like to keep it to 10kg of luggage max.

    10kg? For "real touring"? With tents etc? Good luck with that!

    Not sure I'd go as far as tents. :0

    TBH, I wouldn't want to tour without a tent! Much more restrictive without a tent.

    I did see a bloke in Sweden touring with a CX bike and a trailer. He had crossed over Telemark from Bergen to Oslo. Said the hills were tough but he was a young lad! I didn't envy his gearing. As Simon mentioned, one nice thing about triples is that you rarely need to move out of the middle chainring. I reckon the outer ring was only used for about 5% of the distance and the inner ring 5% of the time. Otherwise it was 36 on the front and 11-34 on the back. That worked pretty well for Scandinavia but might be still a bit tough in parts of the UK. I'll probably re ring the front to 24-34-44 from the current 26-36-48 which at least will give the big ring more work to do.

    Yeah, a tent is an option but you get some pretty lightweight tents these days. I would consider carrying one incase I didn't make it to a B&B/Hostel etc.
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